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What is the Mark of the Beast?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Catchup, Apr 21, 2002.

  1. a spiritual mark

  2. a physical mark

  3. both a spiritual and physical mark

  4. nothing at all

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  1. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Revelations13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

    I wrote a thread while in the Spirit, called "A Letter to My Friends"(which I consider you all to be). I learned something from this experience and would like your comments …especially from my preterist friends. So I am posting a part of the letter. Please tell me what if anything you believe the mark to be.

    Revelations 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.

    :) LOVE
     
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  2. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Hi Catchup,

    Your poll question is confusing to me, for there are 2 "marks" spoken of in the Book of RevelatioN.

    The mark of the Beast and the mark of God.

    Which one are you referring to? and if one is physical, does the other have to be as well?

    YBIC,
    P70
     
  3. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Sorry, I am referring to the Mark of the Beast as I talked of in my post. I thought it would be easily understood. You are not just nit-picking now ...are you? :D

    :) LOVE
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Of course not!

    But I do believe you can't define the nature of one, without taking into acount the nature of the other yes?

    I mean, who do you suppose is manufacturing the microchip implant of the mark of God?
     
  5. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    parousia70 : I am not able to edit the poll. Try being patient. I have asked that it be edited for people, such as yourself, who are easily confused.

    :) LOVE
     
  6. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

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    P70:

    The micro chip implant I believe is the first step toward the mark of the beast, not the mark of God.

    In my humble opinion, it isn't far off.

    I believe that it is a physical mark, maybe an invisible bar code like they talked about putting on federal prisoners for so long.
     
  7. davo

    davo Member

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    G'day Catchup -I took the liberty of breaking up numbering your quote -for convenience sake. There are some misconceptions I want to address:

    1) Well actually no misunderstanding here, this is correct :)

    2) We all at some time in life face various trials and testings, no-one is exempt. No pret I'm aware of has said anything about the impossibilty of a nuclear war -however the biblical "tribulation" us prets mention is related to the time of the end of the old covenant around the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem.

    3) Not sure how you got that -there are many warnings, mostly to with putting aside personal sin. And SIN is the problem, not Satan. Most of the OT was not written to the NT people, but they still learnt from it and made valid and valuable application of it to their situation -we can do likewise (1Cor 10:11).

    4) That's just sensational nonsense.

    5) Same as #3.

    6) No misunderstanding on that one -el' correcto!

    davo
     
  8. sevusan

    sevusan New Member

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    I feel the mark to be the chip that they are trying to get everyone to start using it on their own choice before its mandatory, in rev 14:9 your being forewarned what will happen if you take that mark you are given a choice but a deadly choice if you don't take it you will die, if you do you will live but with the cost of God's fury. So I take it as Satan you take my mark you live but you will die with me in the end. God's you don't take the mark you will die the physical death but then you will have spiritual life eternal.

    I'm just a simpleton but this is what I believe.
     
  9. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Ouch.
    Was that really necessary?
    If your intent was to hurt my feelings, it worked.
    Pat yourself on the back. Good Job. Jesus will be proud.
     
  10. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So is the mark of God physical as well?
    or it that mark spiritual?
     
  11. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    There is a condition God puts on the ramifications of accepting the mark.

    Only those who "accept the mark and worship the beast" are doomed.
     
  12. Craigybabe

    Craigybabe Junior vice trainee secretary

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    Hi P70!

    Just wondering if Pret's believe either Mark has been issued.

    Waiting in Anticipation!

    God Bless

    Craig
     
  13. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    But please tell us... What if anything you think this mark to be.

    I am truly sorry, if you thought I was being rude with you earlier on the thread. :sorry: Sometimes it is hard to understand my sense of humor. I will try to be more specific.

    Now will you please do the same, and answer the question of the thread. Quit skirting the issue...Your replies are usually point blank. :D

    :) LOVE
     
  14. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

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    Regretfully, I don't really know what the Bible has to say about the mark of God other than what Catchup wrote. In other words, I haven't formed an opinion yet. :)
     
  15. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

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    I guess I'll share my opinion here:

    If I'm read this correctly Ezekiel 7-10 speaks the end times. In Ezekiel 9:4 speaks of the mark that's placed upon God's chosen. I think Ezekiel 9:4 = Revelation 7:3


    Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it." (Ezekiel 9:4)

    Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." (Rev 7:3)

    Anyway, the following are comments from (partial preterist-turned full preterist) David Chilton's commentary on Revelation:

    "The mark on the forehead is thus a symbol of man restored to fellowship with God. One striking example of this was the High Priest, whose forehead was marked with gold letters proclaiming that he was HOLY TO THE LORD (Ex. 28:36). Further, in Deuteronomy 6:6-8, all God's people ar esealed in the forehead and the hand with the law of God, just as they are characterized in life by faithful obedience in thought and action to every word of Go.

    The protective 'mark' in Ezekiel 9 i literally tav, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The ancient Hebrew form of the tav was +, a cross-a fact that was not lost on the early Church, which saw it as 'a quasi-prophetic refernce to the sign of the cross as used by Christians, and it is possible that the use of that sign in baptism may have originated in this passage.' Tertullian believed that God had given Ezekiel 'the very form of the cross, which He prdicted would be the sign on our foreheads in the true Catholic Jerusalem.' Holy Baptism, the Seal of the Spirit (2 Cor. 1:32-33; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 1:13-14, 4:30; cf. Rom. 4:11) marks these believers as the covenant-keeping bond-servants of our God, who will be preserved from God's wrath as the ungodly are destroyed. 'The purpose of the sealing was to preseve the true Israel of God as a holy seed. It was not designed to save them from tribulation, but to preseve them in the midst of the great tibulation about to come and to glorify them thereby. Though the old Israel be cast off, a new and holy Israelis to be chosen and sealed with the Spirit of the living God.'" (Chilton. Days of Vengeance, p 205-206).

    Did anyone notice the + being the Hebrew character for 'seal' or 'mark'? Believers are 'taved' =)

    Anyway I think Gal 3:27, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30, Rom 4:11 explain the mark that believers have:

    for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Gal 3:27)

    And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13)

    And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30)

    And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. (Rom 4:11)

    So what does this have to do with the mark of the beast? Here's my opinion the mark of the beast:

    If the mark on believers is a spiritual thing based on Gal 3:27, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 and Rom 4:11, then why wouldn't the mark of the beast also be some sort of spiritual mark upon the damned?

    David Chilton also believes that "the mark of the Beast" is the Satanic parody of "the seal of God" (Rev 3:12, Rev 7:2-4, Rev 14:1)

    That makes sense to me. Would anyone agree??

    =)

    -Jason
     
  16. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Davo: Come on Buddy. :D You broke down my thread soooo incompletely. You totally left off the main topic.


    :mad: MARK of the Beast??? :mad:

    I am sure that it was just an oversight. Now that I have brought it to your attention. I know you will return and enlighten us.

    Your friend in Christ
    :) LOVE
     
  17. MARANATHA2002

    MARANATHA2002 Member

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    I have worked with the ink jet coding machines, that are designed to place the bar code you see own any item you purchase. A laser scanner scans the code giving all the processed information about the item being purchased. If you are paying with a card. The purchaser information can also be tagged with the item. Some retailers even asks you for personal information, when you make a purchase. Point is, the technology exist today, to implement a mark, which will be able to control commerce. The only thing they have to do, to force this on the populations of the world is, implement a cashless commerce system. I would also like to mention, that a system of conditioning the masses, for a cashless society has been in effect for years now. In the early 1900’s, all purchasing transactions were done by cash, from one hand to another. Banks later developed the checking account system. This allowed the banks to have more money in their possession, thus giving them more money to lend out. The people saw this as a convenience. They were able to make transactions with out cash in hand. Then came the credit and debit card. Now you didn’t even have to write a check. These systems were designed to condition the masses, to purchase without cash. The final system will be the mark, it could be a microchip or a tattoo, either can be scanned to provide your information to the retailer. This system will allow the owners of this banking system, to control what is bought and sold. And those who refuse the mark, it seems will do neither. Peace, but not yet.
     
  18. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Hoonbaba : OK...let me understand.

    (1)You think the mark is spiritual?

    (2)So the Mark of the Beast would have to be from the evil Spirits of Satan?

    (3)So does Satan still figure into the equation?


    (4)Or can the world, like preterist have told us, ... simply dismiss him?

    My concerns are for all peoples. Many more will come out of the great tribulation.

    (5)Is there no longer anything to fear from the Mark of the Beast?

    If you believe that there is a "Mark of the Beast" but Satan is no more.

    (6)Who is giving this evil Spiritual mark?


    There is no chance of being saved after this takes place.... according to the Bible.

    (7)But if it is not anything more than a sin... Why can't they be forgiven by turning to Christ?


    (8)Or are you saying that we can just let down our guard...There is no beast and no mark?

    I truly do not understand your answer.

    (9)Would you accept a physical "whatever" to your hand or forehead?

    I am left with many questions for you to answer. I have put them in red and numbered them, so as not to be overlooked. That seems to be happening a lot today. I am sure I will have more questions later but these should get you started.

    I am running out to enjoy this beautiful day.
    Catch you later! :D

    Your Friend in Christ
    :) LOVE
     
  19. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Hoonbaba:

    I already have another question...

    If the Mark of the Beast is referring to only a physical mark, then explain this verse....

    Revelations 13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

    (10) Was there a time in 70 ad when merchants could see into the soul of others? :eek:

    (11) Or is it to be a time in the future that they will have this power to see into our souls?


    (12) Or is this just a funny little joke that God slipped in for us? :angel:

    There you have it an even dozen. But what you wanna bet, I will have more? Oh no...Was that number 13? You aren't superstitious are you? Oh well, not to worry those last ones would be 14 and 15. But only concern yourself with the ones in red. Maybe I should change my name to the Riddler. Ya think??? :D


    :) LOVE
     
  20. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    I think it is a spiritual mark.

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
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