What is the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

But it is not the Law.

When the Law is spoken of in the Epistles which were written to clarify for Christians the precepts and principles and doctrines we are to abide by we are told specifically that Gentiles are not commanded to keep the Law:


Acts 15:23-24
King James Version

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


So just speak plainly.

I will ask again:

P1LGR1M said: ↑
Your answer is a no, whether you realize it or not.

I agree with this statement: If someone claims that Christians are supposed to observe Torah they are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers.

Do you?


It's a yes or no question.


God bless.

Well yes it is. Torah is law and law is Torah. Do you know what Torah is? How about TaNaKh?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I try, but not because I am "...under Law" or because I am "...under Law as a child of God" which is contrasted with those who were actually under Law because they were children of Israel.

Why do you think I am trying to help you? It is because of my love for you and my desire to see you understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ liberates men, it redeems them—from the Law.

But if you are going to teach men they must keep the Law let me ask you this: when was the last time you went to the Temple and sacrifice was made for your sin?


God bless.

That is the basis of Torah...love of HaShem and love of your brother...even Yeshua said so! That is a silly question...there is no Temple.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That Christians obey the principles of God's will revealed to man does not make them "under Law" or under command to "keep the Law."

Um, that IS Torah! We follow His Torah because we love Him and our brother.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

In parenthesis. OK. Please read 14 again and MAYBE you will understand. What is YOUR definition of sin and what is the definition in scripture? "even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression"...men still sinned (but NOT like Adam who was the only one in the garden). Adam sinned and cursed by death and so do we all.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This is what you said:


Yeshua HaDerekh said: ↑

Noah was given law...Noahide laws. Noah had a covenant and laws too.


You can click on the link and see I am directly quoting your statement.

You are the one trying to change what you said, not me.

So here is the declaration that Noah was given law—Noahide laws.

So two questions:


1. Where in Scripture do we see the Noahide laws you refer to here?

2. How are the Noahide laws Mosaic laws?


God bless.

LOL, I know what I said and what I didn't say. These are simple concepts and I seriously do not understand why you can not grasp them! I never said they were Mosaic laws, although some of them, like not to murder, are repeated. Oy vey!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The irreverence to the Lord is shocking, as well as speaking of Him in vain.

He was in all points tempted like as we are—yet without sin.

It is clear, though, that this is more back-pedaling. An attempt to cast your statements in another light.

Jesus Christ could—and did—keep all the commandments.


God bless.

Excuse me?!?! Yes tempted like we are but without sin. That does not mean He could keep ALL the commandments! No one person can! You are just completely without understanding regarding Torah. Yeshua was a MAN...please explain to all of us how He kept the laws regarding menstruation! Oy Vey!!!!!!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I agree, as I said before, He was made of a woman, made under Law, and was sent in the fullness of times to redeem those who were under Law.

But this does not answer the questions posed to you.

Here are the questions again:


P1LGR1M said: ↑
So answer two questions, please:

1. Is Jesus a Judaizer?

2. Is it heresy to teach Christians they are supposed to observe Torah?


God bless.

I already answered them. Yeshua was a Torah observant Jew. He taught Torah. Are you calling Yeshua a heretic because He taught Torah. Are you a heretic because you love HaShem and your brother?????? Matthew 5:19 ....oh oh!

 

[Ceallaigh]

I never said I did! I said there was a Noahide covenant and commands. I said for you to go look them up!

"In Judaism, the Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח, Sheva Mitzvot B'nei Noach), otherwise referred to as the Noahide Laws or the Noachian Laws (from the Hebrew pronunciation of "Noah"), are a set of universal moral laws which, according to the Talmud..."

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

I have a feeling that's why P1LGR1M wanted you to post where Noahide Laws come from.

 

[John Owen]

Excuse me?!?! Yes tempted like we are but without sin. That does not mean He could keep ALL the commandments! No one person can! You are just completely without understanding regarding Torah. Yeshua was a MAN...please explain to all of us how He kept the laws regarding menstruation! Oy Vey!!!!!!

Good commentary.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

"In Judaism, the Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח, Sheva Mitzvot B'nei Noach), otherwise referred to as the Noahide Laws or the Noachian Laws (from the Hebrew pronunciation of "Noah"), are a set of universal moral laws which, according to the Talmud..."

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

I have a feeling that's why P1LGR1M wanted you to post where Noahide Laws come from.

They are easy enough to find, not sure why he couldn't...

 

[Ceallaigh]

Um, that IS Torah! We follow His Torah because we love Him and our brother.

Messianics are the only Christians I've ever encountered saying they follow the Torah.

 

[Ceallaigh]

They are easy enough to find, not sure why he couldn't...

As I recall P1LGR1M asked you where Noahide Law is found in scripture. The Talmud is not scripture.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Messianics are the only Christians I've ever encountered saying they follow the Torah.

All Christians do too as Yeshua taught...Love HaShem and love of your brother IS Torah! Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

As I recall P1LGR1M asked you where Noahide Law is found in scripture. The Talmud is not scripture.

They are mentioned in Talmud but are from Genesis and reiterated in Acts 15!

 

[Ceallaigh]

All Christians do too as Yeshua taught...Love HaShem and love of your brother IS Torah! Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

That verbiage sounds purely Messianic to me. And not the least bit Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Ceallaigh]

They are mentioned in Talmud but are from Genesis and reiterated in Acts 15!

What are the Noahide Laws, and are they biblical? | GotQuestions.org

 

[RobertPate]

What are the Noahide Laws, and are they biblical? | GotQuestions.org

Why is everyone so concerned about something that has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

Paul said, "For you are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.

To be under the law is to be under God's judgment, Galatians 3:10.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That verbiage sounds purely Messianic to me. And not the least bit Eastern Orthodox.

But if it is true, so what

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Why is everyone so concerned about something that has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

Paul said, "For you are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.

To be under the law is to be under God's judgment, Galatians 3:10.

Sin is the transgression of Torah. The wages of sin is death. That is the curse. He became a curse for us. It was nailed to the cross. If there is no law, then there is no sin and no need for grace...we are not under the curse any longer!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What are the Noahide Laws, and are they biblical? | GotQuestions.org

OK so what is your point? All of the laws are found in scripture and are not extra-biblical...