What is the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

[P1LGR1M]

The Jews are not saved. They are not believing in Jesus Christ. That is the difference.

The Old Testament Saints were not believing in Jesus Christ either.

Jesus Christ came at a specific point in History:


Galatians 4:4-6
King James Version

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


The Old Testament had faith in God's Promise, not specifically Jesus Christ, and Paul makes it clear this specific faith was not in the world during the Covenant of Law, which would imply it was not in the world prior to the formalized Covenant of Law:


Galatians 3:21-25
King James Version

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


There was faith under Law, right?

So what is the faith that is spoken of before it came, and after it came?


God bless.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So answer two questions, please:

1. Is Jesus a Judaizer?

2. Is it heresy to teach Christians they are supposed to observe Torah?


God bless.

Yeshua was a JEW and followed and taught Torah...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Yes AND no. No if it is PURELY for salvitic purposes. Because NO ONE can keep them without sinning. The curse is death and without Yeshua becoming a curse for us we would be lost. Faith without works is a dead faith.

Your answer is a no, whether you realize it or not.

I agree with this statement: If someone claims that Christians are supposed to observe Torah they are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers.

Do you?


The statement is specific to people that claim Christians are supposed to observe Torah are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers.

You can't answer a yes or no question with "yes and no."

When you do you show that you do not believe claiming Christians are supposed to observe Torah are teaching the heresy of the Judaizer.

See the problem there?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I never said I did! I said there was a Noahide covenant and commands. I said for you to go look them up!

You did. Now you are trying to change your story:

Noah was given law...Noahide laws. Noah had a covenant and laws too.

Now a new question: why would you say you never said something that the Public Record clearly shows you saying?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Yeshua was a JEW and followed and taught Torah...

Here's the question again: Is Jesus a Judaizer?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Who said anything about that? You are arguing with yourself again. LOL

You did:

The Torah is old covenant. We have a new and better covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7).

If someone claims that Christians are supposed to observe Torah they are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers.

Then Yeshua was a Judaizer..."Love HaShem and your neighbor"...Torah in Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

And Paul says that we are still supposed to obey our parents. But that doesn't make Paul a Judaizer.

You and I both know what I'm talking about.

I am just going strictly by what you said:
"The Torah is old covenant. We have a new and better covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7). If someone claims that Christians are supposed to observe Torah they are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers."

There were many laws that you could not keep. Even Yeshua could not keep them all.

I'd also like to comment on this last statement of yours:

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


Yes, Jesus could—and did—keep all the commandments.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You did:

I'd also like to comment on this last statement of yours:

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


Yes, Jesus could—and did—keep all the commandments.

No I didn't, LOL I know what I said. Explain to me how Yeshua kept ALL the Commandments? How about when He menstruated LOL???????????

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Here's the question again: Is Jesus a Judaizer?


God bless.

Yeshua was a JEW and followed and taught Torah...does that make him one?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You did. Now you are trying to change your story:

No I said what I said. YOU are changing what I said...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Your answer is a no, whether you realize it or not.

I agree with this statement: If someone claims that Christians are supposed to observe Torah they are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers.

Do you?


The statement is specific to people that claim Christians are supposed to observe Torah are teaching the heresy of the Judaizers.

You can't answer a yes or no question with "yes and no."

When you do you show that you do not believe claiming Christians are supposed to observe Torah are teaching the heresy of the Judaizer.

See the problem there?
God bless.

You shall not steal...do you follow or no? Love HaShem and your brother...do you follow or no. That is Torah...yes I see your problem alright!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The Old Testament Saints were not believing in Jesus Christ either.

"Abraham saw My day and was glad" John 8:56

 

[RobertPate]

"Abraham saw My day and was glad" John 8:56

Abraham was glad because he found out that he was justified by faith, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

 

[Basil the Great]

I would say that we are not under obligation to "keep the Sabbath commandment," because we are not under Law.

We worship every day, right? While some have a legalistic view that as long as they are "holy" on Sunday" (or even Saturday, lol) all is well, we look at the fact that we are eternally indwelt children of God who serve as His Temple, right?

Do you worship on Saturday?


God bless.

No, but I believe that a strong case can be made to do so, based upon the Ten Commandments.

 

[Basil the Great]

Yeshua was a JEW and followed and taught Torah...

This is most definitely true.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Abraham was glad because he found out that he was justified by faith, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

That is NOT what Yeshua said or meant...

At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 

[Ceallaigh]

Yeshua was a JEW and followed and taught Torah...

And yet the Jews had him crucified for breaking it. Most of us have this figured out. A few don't get it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And yet the Jews had him crucified for breaking it. Most of us have this figured out. A few don't get it.

and yet He never did break it...

 

[Ceallaigh]

and yet He never did break it...

He changed it. Which they considered breaking it, because they didn't recognize his authority. Like I said most Christians get how Christ both changed and fulfilled old covenant law. Whereas a few have chosen to take an abstract contradictory view.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

He changed it. Which they considered breaking it, because they didn't recognize his authority. Like I said most Christians get how Christ both changed and fulfilled old covenant law. Whereas a few have chosen to take an abstract contradictory view.

I don't think He changed it...I think He interpreted it correctly...

 

[Ceallaigh]

I don't think He changed it...I think He interpreted it correctly...

He didn't interprete it, he created it.