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No you wouldn't need to do any of that to establish my case. You would only need to read and believe the list of scriptures found in the Bible which @ewq1938 listed for you.To establish your case, you would need to provide credible disproofs of the plethora of historical and Scriptural evidence amassed by Bro. Woodrow that I've cited (and there is much more).
You would need to discard the entire historical testimony of Josephus and other cited Roman historians, who overwhelmingly corroborate the content of Matthew 24.
You would need to provide citations of any recognized Christian or other scholars and commentators for 17 centuries of post-apostolic history prior to the 19th century who espoused a full modernist dispensationalist futurist view of Matthew 24.
What do you think?
No you wouldn't need to do any of that to establish my case. You would only need to read and believe the list of scriptures found in the Bible which @ewq1938 listed for you.
I think he proved to you that the tribulation of Christians and persecution of Christians is mentioned over and over again in scripture. We can make the inferences that we will, but the tribulation of Christians and a time of great tribulation for Christians is certainly on the table for all Christians, especially those who are alive immediately preceding the Lord's return.
Luke 21:20-24 makes no sense if interpreted in terms of persecution and tribulation of Christians, but Matthew 24:9-31 certainly makes total sense as a reference to the tribulation of saints when considering the fact that the entire passage is joined into one long discourse by the use of the words "and", "therefore", "but", and "for". The introduction to the tribulation the Lord is speaking about is in Matthew 24:9.
That does not mean that the tribulation experienced by the Jews in A.D 70 was not a time of great tribulation for the Jews (it most certainly was, and probably the greatest period of tribulation that had ever been since the world was until that time),
but you're making inferences that you can only make if you ignore all the passages and parts of scripture that @ewq1938 quoted in his reply to your post (and many others besides).
A full preterist, but a partial futurist.i would say my position, in regards to Matthew 24:34, aligns most closely with John Gill.
The olivet discourse was not about the future physical end of the world, nor the future final coming of Christ. It was completely fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem when Christ “came in judgement” upon that nation. Thus, Jesus’ prophecy rang true and that 1st century generation experienced those events. But again, this does not preclude the future final coming of Christ.
Gills exposition:
“but some should live till all these things were fulfilled; see Matthew 16:28 as many did, and as there is reason to believe they might, and must, since all these things had their accomplishment, in and about forty years after this: and certain it is, that John, one of the disciples of Christ, outlived the time by many years; and, as Dr. Lightfoot observes, many of the Jewish doctors now living, when Christ spoke these words, lived until the city was destroyed; as Rabban Simeon, who perished with it, R. Jochanan ben Zaccai, who outlived it, R. Zadoch, R. Ishmael, and others: this is a full and clear proof, that not anything that is said before, relates to the second coming of Christ, the day of judgment, and end of the world; but that all belong to the coming of the son of man, in the destruction of Jerusalem, and to the end of the Jewish state.”
(Matthew 24:34 Commentaries: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.)
Therefore if 8 billion people die in 3 years, it would be the ultimate of individual final experiences.This is seen in Revelation 7:9,13,14; which is the last reference in Scripture to tribulation, and in which the entire host of the redeemed of all time are described as having come through great tribulation. They have persevered, and have finished the course and have kept the faith through their individual personal tribulations, and now comprise the vast body of the saints of all time. They have come through their individual final tribulations, collectively the final tribulation; to stand triumphantly before the Throne and the Lamb.
Revelation 7:9,13,14 identifies for us the final tribulation.
Therefore if 8 billion people die in 3 years, it would be the ultimate of individual final experiences.
If I don't know what it means, then how could I have given you a post where you expected it? Do you always expect posters to post in a way they are not even aware of?It means that you don't know what it means.
Until they get to sheol.
Did you single out Christians in your post?
You said many on earth escape tribulation by physically dying. Who are these people?Revelation 7 is about the redeemed of the ages, collectively known today as Christians.
You said many on earth escape tribulation by physically dying. Who are these people?
The great tribulation is the six trumpets in Revelation 8–9. The rapture is the 7th trumpet.What is "The Great Tribulation"?
The great tribulation will be world-wide at one time - beginning when the abomination of desolation is setup on the temple mount, and ending when Jesus Returns. If not limited in time, no flesh would survive. i.e. all life on earth wiped out.
1335 days long.
The great tribulation starts when the Abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place. Matthew 24:15. A statue image of the person, placed on the temple mount which everyone will be required to worship, or else.42 months long, so in days it is 1260.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
The beast has 42 months to continue to operate then, he is out of time. That would be when the second coming happens and the beast will be defeated.
The great tribulation starts when the Abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place. Matthew 24:15. A statue image of the person, placed on the temple mount which everyone will be required to worship, or else.
Not when the beast begins his 42 months rule.
The 42 months rule implies without the presence of the two witnessses present. They will have been taken from the earth.
The 42 months is within the great tribulation of the 1335 days before Jesus returns. The 42 months and the 1335 days both end when Jesus returns.
It is not that you are way off. But you need to refine your timeline of events.
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