What is the deal with Calvinists?

[GrinningDwarf]

Hey, Thomas! Welcome to the Reformed Room!

I'm glad you stopped by, too. I'm also glad that you also clarified yourself in your second post. That first one was indeed a blast with both barrels, wasn't it? That's part of the reason that we Reformed folks can sometimes be so thin-skinned...we hear it all the time. JM's post was simply a response such as I sometimes make, to take the exact words used by the OP and replace parts to show that these arguements can be used both ways, and don't really contribute to really understanding. See http://www.christianforums.com/t3821159-questions-for-calvinists.html . The same thing happened, but I was the one replying like JM did here.

(OT- How do you guys include links so elegantly that they appear as a 'real word' in the sentence? PM me with instructions, please.)

Anyway.....I was put off by the Calvinists I had met as well....until I started reading what Calvinist theologians actually had to say unfiltered by the 'unwashed masses'. I'd start with Chosen By God by RC Sproul. This is from by still unfinished autobiography on my trying to understand Calvinism:

In 2002, I decided that I would try to understand what Calvinism was really about. (At that point, I still had the stereotype of Calvinist in mind.) In his book Chosen By God, RC Sproul mentions the president of a Presbyterian seminary who took pride in the fact that he was not a Calvinist. The seminary president said, “I am not a Calvinist because I do not believe that God brings some people, kicking and screaming against their wills, into the kingdom, while He excludes others from His kingdom who desperately want to be there.”


I thought Sproul’s response to this was illuminating. “I was astonished when I heard those words. I did not think it possible that the president of a Presbyterian seminary could have such a gross misconception of his own church’s theology. He was reciting a caricature which was as far away from Calvinism as one could get. Calvinism does not teach and has never taught that God brings people kicking and screaming into the kingdom or has ever excluded anyone who wanted to be there.”

This was certainly a surprise to me. That was certainly how I’d always understood Calvinism, even after it was explained to me by Calvinists, and they always seemed to insist that this is indeed the truth, that it is not open to interpretation or modification, and if one doesn’t like it...well...that’s too bad, because that’s just the way it is. Then here was Sproul saying that this was not really Calvinism at all! I decided to take a closer look at what Sproul had to say. I admit that when I started, the deck was stacked in my mind against the Reformed perspective. I was certain Calvinism would turn out to be wrong, because I couldn’t imagine any way salvation could work other than the way I had been taught to interpret the scriptures , but I wanted to have a correct understanding of exactly what I was refuting. If I was going to reject a point of view...and an important view from church history...I wanted to be able to reject the real view and not just the caricature of that view.

Remember this...if while you are researching the Calvinist perspective, if you think it is saying God brings some people, kicking and screaming against their wills, into the kingdom, while He excludes others from His kingdom who desperately want to be there...you still don't really understand our position.

(Wow......I hope this post makes sense. I've got kids going off in my ear!!

)

 

[HamletsChoice]

I am sorry you are in the midst of dealing with such a great loss and know our Lord will continue to comfort you!
I too, as I've said here many times, must wonder why I came to know the doctrines of grace so late in life! God is sovereign and I'm ever so thankful to Him that He did find me and bring me to His whole truth!
All of my adult children but one, are now in that place where your parents were and I pray that our Lord also will bring them to His truth! Meanwhile, they are actually hostile to any discussion of christianity, bible or such and they will daily remain in my prayers, that they will come to see what we know to be His whole word and plan of provision for us as He is the one who has predestined it all! Soli deo gloria!

Thx for your support. It really is interesting to see wise aged people coming to the reformed faith. It's not as easy to change when you get older.