What is the anti-Christ power?

[jgr]

Doesn't particularly matter whether it's weeks or sevens insofar as the end result of 490 years is the same.
One of the accomplishments during the 70th week is to "bring in everlasting righteousness."
If the 70th week is contiguous with the previous 69, it is only and unarguably Christ who accomplishes this.
If the 70th week is postponed, who is it that brings in everlasting righteousness? Note that this must occur during the week.

 

[Revealing Times]

Daniel 9:24 YLT (Young's Literal Translation)
Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.

My Blog on this is much more in depth and explains this passage in Full.....

Daniel's 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, among others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, sins can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no sins. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the "time of Jacob's trouble", then "sins will end".

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah s help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.

EDIT....Of course Jesus Christ brings in Everlasting Righteousness when He Returns.....

 

[jgr]

Doesn't particularly matter whether it's weeks or sevens insofar as the end result of 490 years is the same.
One of the accomplishments during the 70th week is to "bring in everlasting righteousness."
If the 70th week is contiguous with the previous 69, it is only and unarguably Christ who accomplishes this.
If the 70th week is postponed, who is it that brings in everlasting righteousness? Note that this must occur during the week.

 

[jgr]

EDIT....Of course Jesus Christ brings in Everlasting Righteousness when He Returns.....

Doesn't compute. There is no mention of the return of Christ. There is no mention of a millennial kingdom. There is no mention of any v. 24 activity occurring after the 70th week. Irrespective of whether or not the 70th week is postponed, everything mentioned in v. 24 must be accomplished by no later than the end of that 70th week in order to satisfy the specifications of the prophecy.

So who brings in everlasting righteousness during a postponed 70th week?

 

[Revealing Times]

Doesn't compute. There is no mention of the return of Christ. There is no mention of a millennial kingdom. There is no mention of any v. 24 activity occurring after the 70th week. Irrespective of whether or not the 70th week is postponed, everything mentioned in v. 24 must be accomplished by no later than the end of that 70th week in order to satisfy the specifications of the prophecy.

So who brings in everlasting righteousness during a postponed 70th week?

There is no mention of a lot of things in the bible you have to use your brain. All SIX of these things have to come to pass before this Prophecy is fulfilled. Jesus dying on the cross does not cause Israel to REPENT. You have backwards. Jesus coming will be when all of these things are fulfilled. Can you not read plain English?

1. The Transgression of Israel against God HAS T BE FINISHED. That happens when Israel repents. It did not happen when Jesus died.

2. Israel sin against God have to end...........They still have not ended.

3. Israel must make reconciliation for Sins before this Prophecy is over.

ETC. ETC.

This is simple stuff......it isn't complex.

 

[Douggg]

Doesn't compute. There is no mention of the return of Christ. There is no mention of a millennial kingdom. There is no mention of any v. 24 activity occurring after the 70th week. Irrespective of whether or not the 70th week is postponed, everything mentioned in v. 24 must be accomplished by no later than the end of that 70th week in order to satisfy the specifications of the prophecy.

So who brings in everlasting righteousness during a postponed 70th week?

Jesus returns on day 2520 of the 70th week. The Kingdom of God will then become the controlling kingdom here on earth, which Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. Look around you, do you see righteousness as the rule of this world presently? So it hasn't happened yet.

 

[jgr]

This is simple stuff......it isn't complex.

Right. So you should be able to answer this one simple question:

Who brings in everlasting righteousness during a postponed 70th week?

 

[jgr]

Jesus returns on day 2520 of the 70th week.

And that appears where in Daniel's prophecy?

I presume you're referring to the last day of the 70th week.

If Daniel had believed that Christ's Second Coming would be occurring on the last day (or any other day, for that matter) of a postponed 70th week, which would make it by far the most significant event within that time period, you can be guaranteed that he would have informed us of that event in no uncertain terms.

There is not the slightest hint of a Second Coming event to be found within this prophecy.

 

[BABerean2]

Its actually Seventy Sevens and no where can you show me where the scriptures say it is continuous. The Bible says he is CUT OFF after 69 Weeks so did the Temple destruction complete the action? Ohhh that was 35 to 40 years later, which would mean it was NOT CONTINUOUS !!

The facts are it is a prophecy that has to be fulfilled before the prophecy is finished. We have 69 weeks, the Church Age, then we have JACOBS TROUBLE, where Israel Repents and comes back to God in this FINAL SEVEN.

Why would God/Gabriel/Daniel have a 7x7 a 62x7 and a 1x7 if it was continuous? It is three sets of Seven.

Dan 9:26　 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Christ was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.

If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later.

The last week was the time period that Christ commanded that the Gospel be taken to Daniel's people, the Jews, "first". After that it was taken to the Gentiles.

Below Dr. Kelly Varner explains the true timeline of Daniel chapter 9, which revealed the coming of the New Covenant Messiah. Jeremiah had already been promised that a New Covenant was to come in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when Gabriel appeared. Do you think the angel came to reveal the New Covenant Messiah and then "forgot" to mention the New Covenant?

Below Dr. Kelly Varner will reveal the truth about Daniel chapter 9.
There is no antichrist in the passage.

........................................................................................
This is confirmed below by the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.

 

[jgr]

If one was to go searching back in church history prior to the Darby era for solace and support regarding a postponed 70th week, one would be extremely lonely indeed. There is only one individual, Hippolytus by name, living in the 3rd century, who appeared to espouse a postponement. However, his hypothesis bears almost no resemblance to that of today's dispensationalism. He believed that the postponement gap would extend to about 500 AD, which he theorized would be the date of the Second Coming. He also believed that the church would suffer under antichrist.

That's it. Nobody else until Darby. Even the Roman Catholic church, which originated futurism, does not apply it to the 70th week.

70th week postponement qualifies as nothing more than modernist, if not cultic, false doctrine. Or, charitably, "dispensational delirium."

 

[Revealing Times]

Right. So you should be able to answer this one simple question:

Who brings in everlasting righteousness during a postponed 70th week?

Sorry, I thought I already did. I said Jesus Christ at his Second Coming. Not at the Rapture but at the Second Coming. You know Jesus Returns at the 7th Vial, so he returns at the very end of the 70th Week. Only Jesus coming back can fulfill all of these things like Everlasting Righteousness etc. etc. That's the point brother.

 

[Revealing Times]

And that appears where in Daniel's prophecy?

I presume you're referring to the last day of the 70th week.

If Daniel had believed that Christ's Second Coming would be occurring on the last day (or any other day, for that matter) of a postponed 70th week, which would make it by far the most significant event within that time period, you can be guaranteed that he would have informed us of that event in no uncertain terms.

There is not the slightest hint of a Second Coming event to be found within this prophecy.

Daniel's prophecy was not about the coming times of trouble, though he did mention it, and the Rapture that would happen, you just have to know where to look. Daniel was told about Beasts/Countries and their coming reigns. Kings/Kingdoms and their clashes etc. etc.

We know a Seven Year period is 2520 days. Israel flees for 1260 days at the mid-way (1260) day point, so 1260 and 1260 is 2520. The Rapture is the surprise coming/snatching away. The Second Coming is no surprise. God doesn't care that the evil minions of earth know and understand the timing of their demise !! When they gather at Armageddon, don't you think they know that is the 6th Vial? Unless they are dumb they will know, yet they just hate God.

EDIT...So as not to leave anyone stumped.

Daniel 12:12 And at that time shall Michael stand up (Rev 12), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (Tribulation of Matthew 24), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered (All Israel will be Saved NOT EVERY JEW but Israel as a Nation), every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life (RAPTURE), and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Revealing Times]

Dan 9:26　 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Christ was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.

If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later.

Wrong.....CUT OFF means do die. He died AFTER 69 Weeks meaning after 69x7 Sevens/Weeks/Years = 22080 Days. Jesus was cut off after 22080 Days, meaning there was Seven Sevens left or Seven Years which = 2520 Days. And that just o happens to jibe with all of Gods prophecies (Hmmmm, I wonder why?) about Revelation as per the timings of things. Israel (Woman) flees and spends 1260 Days in the Wilderness, the Anti-Christ is given power to rule the Saints for 42 Months (1260 Days) there is a mention of a TIME, TIMES and a 1/2 a TIME.....The Two witnesses witness for 1260 Days....

God is trying to KNOCK US IN THE HEAD...........And tell us, there is ONE WEEK LEFT........Hey guys, that is why everything is divided by 3 1/2 years, even the Anti-Christ breaks his PEACE/SECURITY Deals after 3 1/2 years....In the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK. (Again 1260 Days into the Agreements) Everything God is prophesying unto us is about SEVEN YEARS....Middle of the Week, time, times and 1/2 time, 1260 Days.....ETC. ETC. God couldn't be any clearer !!!

 

[BABerean2]

Wrong.....CUT OFF means do die. He died AFTER 69 Weeks meaning after 69x7 Sevens/Weeks/Years = 22080 Days. Jesus was cut off after 22080 Days, meaning there was Seven Sevens left or Seven Years which = 2520 Days. And that just o happens to jibe with all of Gods prophecies (Hmmmm, I wonder why?) about Revelation as per the timings of things. Israel (Woman) flees and spends 1260 Days in the Wilderness, the Anti-Christ is given power to rule the Saints for 42 Months (1260 Days) there is a mention of a TIME, TIMES and a 1/2 a TIME.....The Two witnesses witness for 1260 Days....

I am well aware that "cut off" means to die. Christ died "after" the 69th week.

Now deal with the fact that he was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.

Not "after" the 68th week. That would have been a wrong description.
Not "after" the 70th week, since He was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, that would have been a wrong description.
He was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.
He was cut off during the middle of the 70th week, which was "after" the 69th week.

I do not know what kind of calendar you are using, but if I am going to do something "after" this week, it will occur during the following week. In this case, the week "after" the 69th week is the 70th week.
At least that is the type of calendar normally used in the real world.

You are still trying to convert Revelation chapter 12 to make it fit John Darby's doctrine.
You are trying to ignore the birth and death of Christ in the passage, which shows the beginning of the passage is a review of historical events.

.

 

[Revealing Times]

I am well aware that "cut off" means to die. Christ died "after" the 69th week.

Now deal with the fact that he was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.

Not "after" the 68th week. That would have been a wrong description.
Not "after" the 70th week, since He was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, that would have been a wrong description.
He was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.
He was cut off during the middle of the 70th week, which was "after" the 69th week.

I do not know what kind of calendar you are using, but if I am going to do something "after" this week, it will occur during the following week. In this case, the week "after" the 69th week is the 70th week.
At least that is the type of calendar normally used in the real world.

You are still trying to convert Revelation chapter 12 to make it fit John Darby's doctrine.
You are trying to ignore the birth and death of Christ in the passage, which shows the beginning of the passage is a review of historical events.

.

There you go again, not understanding Scriptures. After 69 Weeks means after 69 weeks nit 69 1/2 or 300 weeks. You like to play loose with Scriptures for some reason. Daniel 9:27 is not about Christ Jesus, hence you get off kilter again. Its about the Anti-Christ. The People of the prince (Romans/Europeans) that shall COME (Anti-Christ 2000 years later) shall destroy the temple and city.........

AND HE..................The Anti-Christ (the prince of the people that destroyed the Temple/City....will confirm an Agreement (2000 years later) and in the Middle of the 70TH WEEK, he will Break his Agreements.........

People need to study harder or quit using the KJV, it seems people get confused by the KJV.

TRY THIS...........The Holman Christian Standard Bible

Daniel chapter 9 (HCSB)

24 Seventy weeks {= 490 years} are decreed {Lv 25:8; Nm 14:34; Ezk 4:5-6}
about your people and your holy city —
to bring the rebellion to an end,
to put a stop to sin,
to wipe away iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness, {Is 51:6,8; 56:1; Jr 23:5-6; Rm 3:21-22}
to seal up vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most holy place.

25 Know and understand this:
From the issuing of the decree
to restore and rebuild Jerusalem {Ezr 4:24; 6:1-15; Neh 2:1-8; 3:1}
until Messiah {Mt 1:17; Jn 1:41; 4:25} the Prince {Or until an anointed one, a prince}
will be seven weeks and 62 weeks. {= 49 years and 434 years}
It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat,
but in difficult times.

26 After those 62 weeks {= 434 years}
the Messiah will be cut off {Is 53:8; Mk 9:12; Lk 24:26}
and will have nothing.
The people of the coming prince
will destroy the city {Mt 24:2; Mk 13:2; Lk 19:43-44} and the sanctuary.
The end will come with a flood, and until the end will be war;
desolation's are decreed.

27 He will make a firm covenant {Or will enforce a covenant}
with many for one week, {= 7 years}
but in the middle of the week
he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering.
And the abomination of desolation {Dn 11:31; Mt 24:15; Mk 13:14; Lk 21:20}
will be on a wing {Is 7:7-8; Mt 4:5} of the temple
until the decreed destruction {Is 10:23; 28:22}
is poured out on the desolator.”

 

[Revealing Times]

You are still trying to convert Revelation chapter 12 to make it fit John Darby's doctrine.
You are trying to ignore the birth and death of Christ in the passage, which shows the beginning of the passage is a review of historical events.

You still can't understand chapter 12 nor the Rapture. I wonder why? Might want to seek an infilling of the Holy Spirit, He never misleads us.

 

[Douggg]

If one was to go searching back in church history prior to the Darby era for solace and support regarding a postponed 70th week, one would be extremely lonely indeed. There is only one individual, Hippolytus by name, living in the 3rd century, who appeared to espouse a postponement. However, his hypothesis bears almost no resemblance to that of today's dispensationalism. He believed that the postponement gap would extend to about 500 AD, which he theorized would be the date of the Second Coming. He also believed that the church would suffer under antichrist.

That's it. Nobody else until Darby. Even the Roman Catholic church, which originated futurism, does not apply it to the 70th week.

70th week postponement qualifies as nothing more than modernist, if not cultic, false doctrine. Or, charitably, "dispensational delirium."

irrelevant. What matters is where we are right now on the timeline. Jesus gave us the parable of the fig tree that we don't have to rely on any other historic figure or "ism's".

 

[BABerean2]

There you go again, not understanding Scriptures. After 69 Weeks means after 69 weeks nit 69 1/2 or 300 weeks. You like to play loose with Scriptures for some reason. Daniel 9:27 is not about Christ Jesus, hence you get off kilter again. Its about the Anti-Christ.

Your attempts to claim it is me not understanding, will not hold water.
The same interpretation as mine is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the same Bible that the Pilgrims brought to America.
Based on the fact that Matthew 26:28 is the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible, the publishers of that Bible also have the same understanding.

Daniel 9 is about the timeline that reveals the New Covenant Messiah, but for some strange reason you think the angel Gabriel forgot to mention the New Covenant already promised to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, even though Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when Gabriel appeared.

There is no antichrist in the chapter and there is no "gap" in the chapter.

They are inventions of modern Dispensational Theology that are declared to be the truth, by the proponents of John Darby's doctrine.

Based on John 14:26 the Holy Spirit teaches us about Christ in the scriptures. Instead you are turning the covenant with the many confirmed by the Blood of Christ into a future covenant broken by an
antichrist not in the text.

There are only two possible antecedents in Daniel 9:26.
The "he" must either be the Messiah or Titus.

Mat 26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.　


And then you pretend Christ is not found in Revelations chapter 12.


Rev 12:5　 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.　

Psa 2:7　 "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.　
Psa 2:8　 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.　
Psa 2:9　 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "　


...................................

 

[Revealing Times]

Your attempts to claim it is me not understanding, will not hold water.
The same interpretation as mine is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the same Bible that the Pilgrims brought to America.

I don't care what Geneva implied/stated/maybe stated or what Bible the Pilgrims brought with them. ( Which doesn't mean that had to agree with every translation in there. I brought a KJV Bible t my house yesterday but believe many translations are OFF KILTER !! )

We are informed not to be RESPECTER'S OF MEN....The Holy Spirit's guidance is all that's needed.

Based on the fact that Matthew 26:28 is the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible, the publishers of that Bible also have the same understanding.

Only in your mind brother. Daniel 9:27 is about the prince to come (The Anti-Christ) id it was about Jesus it would be spelled Prince with a capital P. And again, finding one version of the bible that tells you what you want to hear is not that difficult.

Daniel 9 is about the timeline that reveals the New Covenant Messiah, but for some strange reason you think the angel Gabriel forgot to mention the New Covenant already promised to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, even though Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when Gabriel appeared.

Daniel 9 is about Israel's sinning against God, and thus God decrees a JUDGMENT against Israel and when that Judgment comes to pass, then and only then will Israel come home and dwell with God/Jesus. And he wasn't reading about the New Covenant in Jeremiah !! He was reading about the 70 Years of Desolation's which was actually going o be 70x7 because of continued sins.

There is no antichrist in the chapter and there is no "gap" in the chapter.

Not to you, but that just means you are wrong. Its not debatable. So i'll keep it short.

They are inventions of modern Dispensational Theology that are declared to be the truth, by the proponents of John Darby's doctrine.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ EMPTY SPACE MEANS NOTHING TO SEE HERE }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Based on John 14:26 the Holy Spirit teaches us about Christ in the scriptures. Instead you are turning the covenant with the many confirmed by the Blood of Christ into a future covenant broken by an
antichrist not in the text.

No, you are trying to turn Daniel 9:27 into Jesus Christ and it is not, and never will be about Jesus. The verse never mentions a "BLOOD COVENANT" you are just spouting that jargon. Covenant = Definition = AGREEMENT. Don'r get all excited by the WORD COVENANT, it only means an Agreement between men, unless it specifies God.

There are only two possible antecedents in Daniel 9:26.
The "he" must either be the Messiah or Titus.

Mat 26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.　

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: {TO THE LEFT IS THE MESSIAH}

{TO THE RIGHT IS THE ANTI-CHRIST}and the people of the prince that shall come (Anti-Christ) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Its ONE VERSE but its TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE !!

And then you pretend Christ is not found in Revelations chapter 12.

I have NO CLUE what you are speaking of...........Jesus is the MALE CHILD.........Do you even read other peoples posts?

 

[jgr]

irrelavent. What matters is where we are right now on the timeline. Jesus gave us the parable of the fig tree that we don't have to rely on any other historic figure or "ism's".

I presume you mean "irrelevant."

Hmm...to characterize the wisdom of every historic true Christian Church father, reformer, teacher, leader, and pastor as irrelevant is quite extraordinary. I don't think I've even heard such a claim from any contemporary dispensational leader. You're certainly an exceptional individual.

How did they all go so wrong, and how did you go so right? I believe everyone on this forum would like to know.