What is the 2nd Death? (Annihilationsim vs. Eternal Torment)

ClementofA

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LSJ is a classical Greek lexicon.


Did you not see all the Biblical references in the LSJ lexicon i posted? In the section with all those Bible references it states the definition of aion:

" space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age"

Just like i stated it earlier in this thread. Which you said was wrong!

So evidently you think LSJ is wrong, too!​
 
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Der Alte

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Each individual context determines the meaning of a word. No single context determines the meaning of a word for all other contexts. As for a definition of aion, you evidently are in disagreement with many dictionaries, lexicons, Greek-English Interlinears, etc, & say they are wrong to define aion as an age or to say aion means literally an age.
"eon (n.)
1640s, from Late Latin aeon, from Greek aion "age, vital force; a period of existence, a lifetime, a generation; a long space of time," in plural, "eternity," from PIE root *aiw-
"vital force, life, long life, eternity" (source also of Sanskrit ayu "life," Avestan ayu "age," Latin aevum "space of time, eternity," Gothic aiws "age, eternity," Old Norse ævi
"lifetime," German ewig "everlasting," Old English a "ever, always"). Related: Eonian; eonic."
eon | Origin and history of eon by Online Etymology Dictionary
I notice you have completely ignored the BAGD lexicon of NT Greek which I quoted from and linked to.
 
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Der Alte

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So you think LSJ lexicon is wrong, eh?
Liddel Scott Jones entry re aion:

αἰών , ῶνος, ὁ, Ion. and Ep. also ἡ, as in Pi.P.4.186, E.Ph.1484: apocop. acc. αἰῶ,

A.like Ποσειδῶ, restored by Ahrens (from AB363) in A.Ch.350: (properly αἰϝών, cf. aevum, v. αἰεί):—period of existence (“τὸ τέλος τὸ περιέχον τὸν τῆς ἑκάστου ζωῆς χρόνον . . αἰὼν ἑκάστου κέκληται” Arist.Cael.279a25):
I. lifetime, life, “ψυχή τε καὶ αἰών” Il.16.453; “ἐκ δ᾽ αἰ. πέφαται” Il.19.27; “μηδέ τοι αἰ. φθινέτω” Od.5.160; “λείπει τινά” Il.5.685; ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος νέος ὤλεο (Zenod. νέον) 24.725; “τελευτᾶν τὸν αἰῶνα” Hdt.1.32, etc.; “αἰῶνος στερεῖν τινά” A.Pr.862; “αἰῶνα διοιχνεῖν” Id.Eu.315; “συνδιατρίβειν” Cratin. 1; αἰ. Αἰακιδᾶν, periphr. for the Aeacidae, S.Aj.645 s. v. l.; “ἀπέπνευσεν αἰῶνα” E.Fr.801; “ἐμὸν κατ᾽ αἰῶνα” A.Th.219.
2. age, generation, αἰ. ἐς τρίτον ib.744; ὁ μέλλων αἰών posterity, D.18.199, cf. Pl.Ax.370c.
3. one's life, destiny, lot, S.Tr.34, E.Andr.1215, Fr.30, etc.
II. long space of time, age, αἰὼν γίγνεται 'tis an age, Men.536.5; esp. with Preps., ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος of old, Hes.Th.609, Ev.Luc.1.70; “οἱ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαῖοι” D.C. 63.20; δι᾽ αἰῶνος perpetually, A.Ch.26, Eu.563; all one's life long, S. El.1024; δι᾽ αἰῶνος μακροῦ, ἀπαύστου, A.Supp.582,574; τὸν δι᾽ αἰ. χρόνον for ever, Id.Ag.554; εἰς ἅπαντα τὸν αἰ. Lycurg.106, Isoc.10.62; εἰς τὸν αἰ. LXX Ge.3.23, al., D.S.21.17, Ev.Jo.8.35, Ps.-Luc. Philopatr.17; “εἰς αἰῶνα αἰῶνος” LXX Ps.131(132).14; ἐξ αἰῶνος καὶ ἕως αἰῶνος ib.Je.7.7; ἐπ᾽ αἰ. ib.Ex.15.18; ἕως αἰῶνος ib.1 Ki.1.22, al.:— without a Prep., τὸν ἅπαντα αἰ. Arist. Cael.279a22; “τὸν αἰῶνα” Lycurg. 62, Epicur.Ep.1p.8U.; eternity, opp. χρόνος, Pl.Ti.37d, cf. Metrod. Fr.37, Ph.1.496,619, Plot.3.7.5, etc.; “τοὺς ὑπὲρ τοῦ αἰῶνος φόβους” Epicur.Sent.20.
2. space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος this present world, opp. ὁ μέλλων, Ev.Matt.13.22, cf. Ep.Rom.12.2; ὁ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ep.Tim.6.17, 2 Ep.Tim.4.10:—hence in pl., the ages, i.e. eternity, Phld.D.3 Fr.84; “εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ.” LXX To.13.4; εἰς τοὺς αἰ.ib.Si.45.24, al., Ep.Rom.1.25, etc.; “εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων” LXX 4 Ma.18.24, Ep.Phil.4.20, etc.; ἀπὸ τῶν αἰ., πρὸ τῶν αἰ., Ep.Eph.3.9, 1Cor.2.7; τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. ib.10.11.
3. Αἰών, ὁ, personified, “Αἰὼν Χρόνου παῖς” E.Heracl.900 (lyr.), cf. Corp.Herm.11, etc.; as title of various divine beings, Dam.Pr.151, al.; esp.=Persian Zervan, Suid. s.v. Ἡραἰ̈σκος.
4. Pythag., = 10, Theol.Ar.59.
B. spinal marrow (perh. regarded as seat of life), h.Merc 42, 119, Pi.Fr.111, Hp.Epid.7.122; perh. also Il.19.27.
No comment necessary.
 
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ClementofA

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I notice you have completely ignored the BAGD lexicon of NT Greek which I quoted from and linked to.

You posted the wrong word. My comment was about aion not aionios. Here is the definition of aion by the 3rd edition of the lexicon:

1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
3. the world as a spacial concept, the world
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon

( A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed, BDAG, 2000, pgs 32-33)

Clearly these definitions include that definition which i gave you earlier which you said was wrong. Therefore you must also think BDAG is wrong, too.
 
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Der Alte

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You posted the wrong word. My comment was about aion not aionios. Here is the definition of aion by the 3rd edition of the lexicon:
1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
3. the world as a spacial concept, the world
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon
( A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed, BDAG, 2000, pgs 32-33)
Clearly these definitions include that definition which i gave you earlier which you said was wrong. Therefore you must also think BDAG is wrong, too
.
Now let us review the full actual entry from BAG. Rather than a few selective out-of-context sentences.
αἰών ώνος ο​
( Hom. +; Herm. Wr. ; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. , Sib. Or. ) time, age.​


1. very long time, eternity — a. of time gone by, the past, earliest times, then eternity oiJ a{gioi ajpÆ aijw`no" profh`tai the holy prophets fr. ages long past ( cf. Hes ., Theog. 609; Peri; u{you" 34, 4 tou;" ajpÆ aij. rJhvtora" ; Cass. Dio 63, 20 tw`n ajpo; tou` aij. JRwmaivwn ; Inschr. v. Magn. 180, 4; Dit., Syll. 3 index; Gen 6:4 ; Tob 4:12 ; Sir 14:17 ; 51:8 ; En. 14, 1; 99, 14; Jos. , Bell. 1, 12) Lk 1:70 ; Ac 3:21 ; to make known from of old Ac 15:18 ; pro; panto;" t. aij. before time began Jd 25 a (for the combination with pa`" cf. Sallust. c. 20 p. 36, 5 to;n pavnta aijw`na =through all eternity); pl. pro; tw`n aij.
1 Cor 2:7 ( cf. Ps 54:20 qeo;" oJ uJpavrcwn pro; tw`n aij. [ PGM 4, 3067 ajpo; t. iJerw`n aijwvnwn ]); ejx aij. since the beginning D 16:4 ( Diod. S. 1, 6 al. ; Sext. Emp. , Math. 9, 62; Dit., Or. 669, 61; Philo , Somn. 1, 19; Jos. , Bell. 5, 442; Sir 1:4 ; Sib. Or. , fgm. 1, 16 of God movno" eij" aijw`na k. ejx aijw`no" ).
W. neg. foll. ejk tou` aijw`no" oujk hjkouvsqh never has it been heard J 9:32 ,
b. of time to come which, if it has no end, is also known as eternity (so commonly in Gk. lit. Pla .+); eij" to;n aijw`na (since Isocr. 10, 62; Dit., Syll. 3 814, 50 and Or., index VIII; POxy. 41; also Diod. S. 1, 56, 1 eij" t. aij .= eij" a{panta t. crovnon ; 4, 1, 4; PGM 8, 33; 4, 1051 [ eij" aij .]; LXX ; En. 12, 6; 102, 3; Jos. , Ant. 7, 356 [ eij" aij .]) to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity : live J 6:51 , 58 ; B 6:3; remain J 8:35 ab; 12:34 ; 1 Pt 1:23 t.r ., 25 (Is 40:8 ); 1J 2:17 ; 2J 2 ; be with someone J 14:16 . W. neg .= never, not at all, never again (Ps 124:1 ; Ezk 27:36 al .) Mt 21:19 ; Mk 3:29 ; 11:14 ; 1 Cor 8:13 . e{w" aijw`no" ( LXX) 1 Cl 10:4 (Gen 13:15 ); Hv 2, 3, 3; s 9, 24, 4. eij" to;n aij. tou` aijw`no" (Ps 44:18 ; 82:18 al .) Hb 1:8 (Ps 44:7 ). e{w" aijw`no" Lk 1:55 v.l .—The pl. is also used (Emped., fgm. 129, 6 aijw`ne" =generations; Theocr. 16, 43 makrou;" aijw`na" =long periods of time; Sext. Emp. , Phys. 1, 62 eij" aijw`na" diamevnei ; Sib. Or. 3, 767.— Bl-D. §141, 1), esp. in doxologies: eij" tou;" aijw`na" , (Ps 60:5 ; 76:8 ) Mt 6:13 v.l .; Lk 1:33 ( cf. Wsd 3:8 ); Hb 13:8 ; eij" pavnta" tou;" aij. (Tob 13:4 ; Da 3:52 b; En. 9, 4; Sib. Or. 3, 50) Jd 25
b. eujloghto;" eij" tou;" aijw`na" to all eternity ( cf. Ps 88:53 ) Ro 1:25 ; 9:5 ; 2 Cor 11:31 ; aujtw`/ hJ dovxa eij" tou;" aij. Ro 11:36 ; more fully eij" tou;" aij. tw`n aijwvnwn (Ps 83:5 ; PGM 4, 1038; 22b, 15) for evermore in doxologies 16:27 ; Gal 1:5 ; Phil 4:20 ; 1 Ti 1:17 ; 2 Ti 4:18 ; Hb 13:21 ; 1 Pt 4:11 ; 5:11 ; 1 Cl 20:12; 32:4; 38:4; 43:6; Rv 1:6 ; 5:13 ; 7:12 al. eij" pavsa" ta;" genea;" tou` aijw`no" tw`n aij. Eph 3:21 ( cf. Tob 1:4 ; 13:12 ; En. 103, 4; 104, 5). Of God oJ zw`n eij" tou;" aij. ( cf. Tob 13:2 ; Sir 18:1 ; Da 6:27 Theod. ) Rv 4:9 f ; 10:6 ; 15:7 .— kata; provqesin tw`n aijwvnwn according to the eternal purpose Eph 3:11 . All-inclusive ajpo; aijwvnwn kai; eij" t. aijw`na" from (past) eternity to (future) eternity B 18:2 ( cf. Ps 40:14 and Ps.- Aristot. , De Mundo 7 p. 401a, 16 ejx aijw`no" ajtevrmono" eij" e{teron aijw`na ; M. Ant. 9, 28, 1 ejx aijw`no" eij" aijw`na ; Sib. Or. , fgm. 1, 16 of God movno" eij" aijw`na k. ejx aijw`no" ). 2. a segment of time, age — a. oJ aijw;n ou|to" ( µl;/[h; hZ2h' ) the present age (nearing its end) ( cf. Bousset, Rel. 243 ff ; Dalman, Worte 120 ff ; Schürer II 4 636 ff ; NMessel, D. Einheitlichkeit d. jüd. Eschatol. ’15, 44-60) contrasted w. the age to come ( Philo and Joseph. do not have the two aeons) Mt 12:32 . A time of sin and misery Hv 1, 1, 8; s 3:1 ff ; ending of Mk in the Freer ms. 2; hJ mevrimna tou` aij. ( sc. touvtou ) the cares of the present age Mt 13:22 ; cf. Mk 4:19 . plou`to" earthly riches Hv 3, 6, 5. mataiwvmata vain, futile things Hm 9:4; s 5, 3, 6. pragmatei`ai m 10, 1, 4. ejpiqumiva m 11:8; s 6, 2, 3; 7:2; 8, 11, 3. ponhriva s 6, 1, 4. ajpavtai s 6, 3, 3. oiJ uiJoi; tou` aij. touvtou the sons of this age, the people of the world ( opp. sons of light, enlightened ones) Lk 16:8 ; cf. 20:3 4.—The earthly kingdoms basilei`ai tou` aij. touvtou IRo 6:1. suschmativzesqai tw`/ aij. touvtw/ be conformed to this world Ro 12:2 . As well as everything non-Christian, it includes the striving after worldly wisdom: suzhthth;" tou` aij. touvtou searcher after the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 1:20 . sofiva tou` aij. touvtou 2: 6. ejn tw`/ aij. touvtw/ 3:18 prob. belongs to what follows: he must become a fool in ( the estimation of ) this age. The ruler of this age is the devi1: oJ qeo;" tou` aij. touvtou 2 Cor 4:4 ( qeov" 5). a[rcwn tou` aij. touvtou IEph 17:1; 19:1; IMg 1:3; ITr 4:2; IRo 7:1; IPhld 6:2; his subordinate spirits are the a[rconte" tou` aij. touvtou 1 Cor 2:6 , 8 ( a[rcwn 3).—Also oJ nu`n aijwvn : plouvsioi ejn tw`/ nu`n aij. 1 Ti 6:17 ; ajgapa`n to;n nu`n aij. 2 Ti 4:10 ; Pol 9:2. Cf. Tit 2:12 . Or oJ aij. oJ ejnestwv" the present age Gal 1:4 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 797, 9 [37 AD ] aijw`no" nu`n ejnestw`to" ). The end of this period ( cf. Sib. Or. 3, 756 mevcri tevrmato" aijw`no") suntevleia (tou`) aij . Mt 13:39 f , 49 ; 24:3 ; 28:20 ; suntevleia tw`n aij. Hb 9:26 .
b. oJ aijw;n mevllwn ( aBƒh' µl;/[h; ) the age to come, the Messianic period (on the expr. cf. Demosth. 18, 199; Hippocr. , Ep. 10, 6 oJ m. aij. =the future, all future time; Ael. Aristid. 46, p. 310 D.: hJ tou` parelqovnto" crovnou mneiva k. oJ tou` mevllonto" aijw`no" lovgo" ; Jos. , Ant. 18, 287), in 2 Cl 6:3, cf. Hs 4:2 ff , opposed to the aijw;n ou|to" both in time and quality, cf. Mt 12:32 ; Eph 1:21 ; dunavmei" mevllonto" aij. Hb 6:5 . Also aij. ejkei`no" ; tou` aij. ejkeivnou tucei`n take part in the age to come Lk 20:35 . oJ aij. oJ ejrcovmeno" Mk 10:30 ; Lk 18:30 ; Hs 4:8. oJ aij. oJ ejpercovmeno" Hv 4, 3, 5: pl. ejn toi`" aijw`sin toi`" ejperco-mevnoi" in the ages to come Eph 2:7 . As a holy age oJ a{gio" aij. ( opp. ou|to" oJ kovsmo" ) B 10:11 and as a time of perfection aij. ajluvphto" an age free from sorrow 2 Cl 19:4, while the present aijwvn is an ‘aeon of pain’ (Slav. Enoch 65, 8).—The plurals 1 Cor 10:11 have been explained by some as referring to both ages, i.e. , the end-point of the first and beginning of the second; this view urges that the earliest Christians believed that the two ages came together during their own lifetimes: we, upon whom the ends of the ages have come (JWeiss. A Greek would not refer to the beginning as tevlo". The Gordian knot has ou[te tevlo" ou[te ajrchv : Arrian , Anab. 2, 3, 7). But since ta; tevlh can also mean ‘end’ in the singular ( Ael. Aristid. 44, 17 K.=17 p. 406 D.: swvmato" ajrcai; k. tevlh =‘beginning and end’: 39 p. 737 D.: ta; tevlh. . . dravmato" ; Longus 1, 23, 1 ms. h\ro" tevlh ; Vi. Thu. II 2 tevlh tou` polevmou ; Aëtius , Eye Diseases p. 120, 25 Hirschb. after Galen : ta; tevlh t. lovgou =the close of the section; Philo , Virt. 182) and, on the other hand, the pl. aijw`ne" is often purely formal ( s. above 1a and b, 2a at end) ta; tevlh tw`n aij. can perh. be regarded as equal to tevlo" aijwvnwn ( Sib. Or. 8, 311)= the end of the age ( s ). Cf. Test. Levi 14:1 ejpi; ta; tevlh tw`n aijwvnwn. —For the essential equivalence of sing. and pl. cf. Maximus Tyr. 14, 8b ta; th`" kolakeiva" tevlh beside tevlo" th`" spoudh`". Cf. also tevlo" 3.
3. the world as a spatial concept ( aij. in sg. and pl. [ Bl-D. §141, 1]: Hippocr. , Ep. 17, 34; Diod. S. 1, 1, 3 God rules a{panta to;n aijw`na ; Ael. Aristid. 20, 13 K.=21 p. 434 D.: ejk tou` panto;" aijw`no" ; Maximus Tyr. 11, 5e; Isisaretal. from Cyrene 4 [103 AD ] in WPeek, D. Isishymnus etc. ’30, 129; Ps 65:7 ; Ex 15:18 [ cf. Phil o, Plant. 47; 51]; Wsd 13:9 ; 14:16 : 18:4 ) AP 14. Created by God through the Son Hb 1:2 ; through God’s word 11:3 . Hence God is basileu;" tw`n aij. 1 Ti 1:17 ; 1 Cl 61:2 ( cf. PGM 12, 247 aijwvnwn basileu` ; Tob 13:7 , 11 , cf. Act. Phil. 2; 11 Bonnet); path;r tw`n aij. 35:3 ( cf. Justin, Apol. I 41, 2; Act. Phil. 144, p. 84, 9); qeo;" tw`n aij. 55:6 ( cf. Sir 36:17 ; PGM 4, 1163; ThSchermann, Griech. Zauber- pap. 23; Act. Jo. 82). But it is poss. that many of these belong under
4. the Aeon as a person (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 268 index under Aion, Taufe 391 index; Epict. 2, 5, 13 ouJ gavr eijmi aijwvn, ajllÆ a[nqrwpo" =I am not a being that lasts forever, but a man [and therefore I know that whatever is must pass away]; Mesomedes 1, 17; Simplicius in Epict. p. 81, 15 oiJ aijw`ne" beside the mhvthr th`" zwh`" and the dhmiourgov" ; En. 9, 4 kuvrio" t. kurivwn kai; qeo;" t. qew`n k. basileu;" t. aijwvnwn ; PGM 4, 520; 1169; 2198; 2314; 3169; 5, 468; Act. Phil. 132, p. 63, 4 f ; Kephalaia I p. 24, 6; 45, 7) oJ aij. tou` kovsmou touvtou Eph 2:2 . The secret hidden from the Aeons Col 1:26 ; Eph 3:9 (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 235 f ); IEph 19:2 (Rtzst., op. cit. 86, 3); cf. 8:1 (Rtzst. 236, 2). Various other meanings are poss. in these passages.—CLackeit, Aion I, Diss. Königsbg. ’16; EDBurton, ICC Gal ’21, 426-32; HJunker, Iran. Quellen d. hellenist. Aionvorstellung: Vortr. d. Bibl. Warburg I ’23, 125 ff ; ENorden, D. Geburt des Kindes ’24; JKaerst, Gesch. d. Hellenismus II 2 ’26, 239-42; MZepf, D. Gott Aiwn in d. hellenist. Theologie: ARW 25, ’27, 225-44; HSasse TW I 197-208; ADNock, HTR 27, ’34, 78-99=Essays on Religion etc. I, ’72, 377-96; RLöwe, Kosmos u. Aion ’35; ECEOwen, aijwvn and aijwvnio" : JTS 37, ’36, 265-83; 390-404; OCullmann, Christus u. d. Zeit, ’46, 38-42, Eng. tr. ’50, 44-9; GStadtmüller, Saeculum, 2, ’51, 315-20; EJenni, Das Wort olam im AT: ZAW 64, ’52, 197-248; 65, ’53, 1-35; KDeichgräber, RGG I 3 193-95. M-M. B. 13.
BAGD online
 
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Now let us review the full actual entry from BAG. Rather than a few selective out-of-context sentences.
αἰών ώνος ο

( Hom. +; Herm. Wr. ; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. , Sib. Or. ) time, age.


BAGD is the 1978 lexicon which has been revised & replaced by the BDAG of 2000, which i quoted from, which says in defining the word aion:

1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
3. the world as a spacial concept, the world
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon

( A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed, BDAG, 2000, pgs 32-33)

Even your source, allegedly BADG, says for aion "time, age".

Your definition of the word aion is "eternal". That isn't even mentioned in the above 4 definitions by BDAG. Let alone that, as you appear to claim, "eternal" is the one and only definition of the word, and all other definitions are wrong.

My definition, which you said was wrong, was: "Aion literally means age, eon. It refers to a duration of time, often an epoch." Obviously BDAG includes my defintions. Thus it says that you are wrong in saying my definitions are wrong. BDAG disagrees with you & agrees with me.

Likewise LSJ agrees with me & says you are wrong:

LSJ is a classical Greek lexicon.

Did you not see all the Biblical references in the LSJ lexicon i posted? In the section with all those Bible references it states the definition of aion:

" space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age"

Just like i stated it earlier in this thread. Which you said was wrong!

So evidently you think LSJ is wrong, too!

Greek Word Study Tool
LSJ
 
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BAGD is the 1978 lexicon which has been revised & replaced by the BDAD of 2000, which i quoted from, which says in defining the word aion:
1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
3. the world as a spacial concept, the world
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon
( A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed, BDAG, 2000, pgs 32-33)
Even your source, allegedly BADG, says for aion "time, age".

Your definition of the word aion is "eternal". That isn't even mentioned in the above 4 definitions by BDAG. Let alone that, as you appear to claim, "eternal" is the one and only definition of the word, and all other definitions are wrong.
Since Danker also contributed to the BAGD, that is what the "D" indicates, I am certain that he did not remove all the references to eternal, eternity etc. And I am absolutely certain, beyond any discussion, that the aion entry in any edition of that well known lexicon consists of only 4 sentences with no historical/Biblical references. It don't happen<period> end of discussion!
My definition, which you said was wrong, was: "Aion literally means age, eon. It refers to a duration of time, often an epoch." Obviously BDAG includes my defintions. Thus it says that you are wrong in saying my definitions are wrong. BDAG disagrees with you & agrees with me.
Likewise LSJ agrees with me & says you are wrong:
Did you not see all the Biblical references in the LSJ lexicon i posted? In the section with all those Bible references it states the definition of aion:
" space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age"
Just like i stated it earlier in this thread. Which you said was wrong!
So evidently you think LSJ is wrong, too!
Guess you missed or ignored my posts where I quoted your LSJ entry and the BAG entry, posts 81 and 85 above, and in both entries highlighted in red all the references to eternal, eternity, forever etc.And while I am being certain I am also certain that you cannot refute the 8 scripture I quoted [post #71], also posts 61 and 65, which clearly define aion and aionios. For example,
Romans 2:7
(7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life:
“Aionios” is in apposition with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”
 
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ClementofA

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Since Danker also contributed to the BAGD, that is what the "D" indicates, I am certain that he did not remove all the references to eternal, eternity etc. And I am absolutely certain, beyond any discussion, that the aion entry in any edition of that well known lexicon consists of only 4 sentences with no historical/Biblical references. It don't happen<period> end of discussion!

The topic of discussion is the - "definition(s)" - of aion. Not "references". Therefore, I gave you the 4 main headings of the BDAG entry, the highlighted "definitions" that BDAG gives for aion, quoted word for word. And typed out by hand from my hardcover book copy of BDAG. So consequently I saw no point in spending hours copying by hand the mere "references" of the BDAG entry.

Here are the "definitions" of aion by the 3rd edition of the lexicon:

1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
3. the world as a spacial concept, the world
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon

( A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed, BDAG, 2000, pgs 32-33)

Your definition of the word aion is "eternal". That isn't even mentioned in the above 4 definitions by BDAG. Let alone that, as you appear to claim, "eternal" is the one and only definition of the word, and all other definitions are wrong. Clearly BDAG opposes you.

Guess you missed or ignored my posts where I quoted your LSJ entry and the BAG entry, posts 81 and 85 above, and in both entries highlighted in red all the references to eternal, eternity, forever etc.

And, so what? What you didn't highlight are all the references to aion being an age, generation, long space of time, epoch, this present world, etc.

You already objected saying that "LSJ is a classical Greek lexicon". Then i corrected you and pointed out that the LSJ entry i posted included Biblical Greek as well.

Moreover, in the section of the entry with New Testament references, it defines aion just like i did, which you said was wrong! So, in saying i'm wrong, you said LSJ is wrong too. I'll leave it up to others to decide for themselves who's right, me & LSJ, or you.

LSJ is a classical Greek lexicon.

Did you not see all the Biblical references in the LSJ lexicon i posted? In the section with all those Bible references it states the definition of aion:

" space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age"

Just like i stated it earlier in this thread. Which you said was wrong! So evidently you think LSJ is wrong, too!

Greek Word Study Tool
LSJ

So, who to believe? Der Alter? Or LSJ, BDAG & me?

Der Alter said at post 44:

"Verses which show conclusively that αἰώνιος/aionios means eternal."

Der Alter said at post 46:

"That words are sometimes used hyperbolically does not change their inherent meaning."

Der Alter said at post 53:

"Had you bothered to actually read the 18 verses I quoted you might learn that those verses do not merely use "aion" a certain way but they define "aion." "

"...Aion/aionios" can be and are used hyperbolically, i.e. hyperbole. Even in English although forever means everlasting/unending, people often use it for things that are not everlasting/unending. For example "I went to the store yesterday and I had to wait in line forever." "I ordered some parts online and it took forever to get here." Hyperbole!"

Der Alter said at post 31:

"Does aionios mean eternal and is it sometimes used hyperbolically?"

Der Alter said at post 55:

".....Now if you want to show conclusively that "aion/aionios" means "age(s)," i.e. a finite period of time, and nothing else, then you must show verses where "aion/aionios" is paired with other words which mean a finite period, similar to what I have done. But I will inform you right now you cannot do so there are no such verses. I have looked. Unlike the verses I provided all you will be able to do is point to verses where "aion/aionios" refers to something which cannot be literally "eternal/eternity" i.e. hyperbole."

Does this look like a use of aion as hyperbole:

As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3)

That is not using aion as hyperbole. That is using aion literally. And using aion of finite duration at the same time. Aion does not mean "eternal" in Matthew 24:3, either literally or as hyperbole. Therefore the theory that aion always means "eternal" in the scriptures, except when used in hyperbole, is against the Bible and wrong. Der Alter's hyperbole theory of aion & aionios is a false teaching and contrary to the inspired words of the Scriptures.

My definition of aion, which Der Alter said was wrong, was: "Aion literally means age, eon. It refers to a duration of time, often an epoch."

No matter how many times you post this, it is still wrong.
....

So you think Strong's concordance is wrong to state that aion means properly an "age"?

Did Jesus think aion meant eternal, not "age", when He spoke of the "end of the age"[aion] (Mt.28:20, NASB, NIV etc)? If an aion has an "end", can it possibly be eternal?

Why didn't Der Alter answer the three questions above?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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Butch5

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Did you even read my post? You evidently do not know or understand the difference between consulting dictionaries and commentaries, which I did not do, and showing how a word is contrasted or equated with other words which show the meaning, which I did do. For example
1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]
Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”

One occurrence does not "prove" anything. Please see my previous [post #61] above, to learn what the grammatical term "apposition" means. Written by Dr. Daniel Wallace who has taught graduate level Greek for 30+ years.

I've read enough of your posts to know your arguments and they don't hold water.
 
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Der Alte

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The topic of discussion is the - "definition(s)" - of aion. Not "references". Therefore, I gave you the 4 main headings of the BDAG entry, the highlighted "definitions" that BDAG gives for aion, quoted word for word. And typed out by hand from my hardcover book copy of BDAG. So consequently I saw no point in spending hours copying by hand the mere "references" of the BDAG entry.
Here are the "definitions" of aion by the 3rd edition of the lexicon:
1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
3. the world as a spacial concept, the world
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon
( A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed, BDAG, 2000, pgs 32-33)...
I have addressed all your objections and questions in my previous posts. Let us examine this deliberately truncated quote from BDAG. Note there are only 4 sentences no, zero, none biblical or historical references, which I have pointed out before and which you have ignored.
.....You are fully aware that biblical and historical references are required because you referred to the biblical references in the LSJ article you posted previously. So can you please explain to me why this supposed quote from BDAG has no such references? Answer, they were deliberately omitted because, in my opinion, they do not fit the agenda that "aion" does not mean eternity.
.....Below is a link to a scan of the BDAG "aion" entry which consists of several paragraphs with many historical and biblical references. Were one to review this BDAG article they would find the following definitions, which were omitted from your quote.

“Ton panta aiona-through all eternity,” “of time to come which if it has no end, is also known as eternity. “eis ai’ to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity’; “w. negative= never, not at all, never again,””eis tous aionas-unto all eternity” ”forevermore,” ”formulaically=eternal …according to the eternal purpose,” ”from (past) eternity to (future) eternity,”
BDAG on aionios
Part of the BDAG definition of aionios is also at this link which includes such definitions as, "a period of time without beginning or end,""eternal, of God," "everlasting," "forever," "eternal life," "everlasting deed."
.....Please feel free to keep pushing this false agenda with false information.


 
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Which shall not deter me from exposing errors, misrepresentations, obfuscations, etc. Please note, e.g. BDAG above.
You're not exposing errors, you're promoting them. As I said, it doesn't matter how many dictionaries or commentaries you quote. They are all written by people who have theological positions to defend. Instead of BDAG consider what Jesus said, at the end of this age...THEN. "Then" indicates a time after the end of this age. Eternity means forever and has no end. Therefore there is nothing after eternity. However, according to Jesus there is something after this aion. Thus aion cannot mean eternal.
 
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Der Alte

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You're not exposing errors, you're promoting them. As I said, it doesn't matter how many dictionaries or commentaries you quote. They are all written by people who have theological positions to defend. Instead of BDAG consider what Jesus said, at the end of this age...THEN. "Then" indicates a time after the end of this age. Eternity means forever and has no end. Therefore there is nothing after eternity. However, according to Jesus there is something after this aion. Thus aion cannot mean eternal.
You make the accusation that Greek languages resources "are all written by people who have theological positions to defend." As if you are not arguing from a theological position which you want to defend with, I might add, zero expertise in Greek grammar.
.....So you are of the opinion that the occurrence of a word in one verse out of 31,172 vss. in the Bible determines the meaning of a word and we should ignore everything else? This is the definition of proof-text theology.
.....Does God's throne only endure for a finite period? Hebrews 1:8 "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:"
.....Does God only live for a finite period? Revelation 15:7 "God, who liveth for ever and ever." This verse is an example of "an expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated." See Robertson and Vincent below. This is known as Greek Grammar not one verse proof text theology.
Previous post...
.....Eight verses from the NT which conclusively show that "aion" definitely means "eternity" and "aionios" definitely means "eternal."

[1] 1 Timothy 1:17
(17) Now unto the King eternal, (1) immortal,(2) invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever (1) and ever (1). Amen.
(1) αἰών/aion (2) ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos
In this verse “aion” is in apposition, see def. below, with “immortal.” If “aion” means “age(s),” a finite period, God cannot be for “a finite period” and “immortal” at the same time. God is “eternal” and “immortal” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[2] Romans 2:7
(7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,(2) eternal (1) life:
“Aion” is in apposition with “immortality.” If “aion” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternity” and “immortality” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[3] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal (1a) weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;(3) but the things which are not seen are eternal.(1a)
(1a) αἰώνιος/aionios (3) πρόσκαιρος/proskairos
Here “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Aionios” cannot mean “age(s)” a finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary.” “Eternal” is.
[4] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1)For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal (1a) in the heavens.
Here “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” An “aionios” house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” “Aionios” means “eternal.”
[5] Hebrews 7:24
(24) But this man, because he continueth ever,(1) hath an unchangeable (4) priesthood.
(4) ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos
Here “unchangeable” is in apposition with “aion.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Melchizadek cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[6] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,(2) by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.(1)
Here “incorruptible” is in apposition with “aion.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only for “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[7] 1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]
Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”
[8] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
Here “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “fleshly” people reap “corruption” but people in the spirit people reap life aionios i.e. not “corruption.” “Aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
.....The definition of “apposition” from a Greek grammar.

III. Nominative in Simple Apposition
The nominative case (as well as the other cases) can be an appositive to another substantive in the same case. The usage is quite common. There are four features of simple apposition to be noted (the first two are structural clues; the last two features are semantic): An appositional construction inz’olz’es (1) two adjacent substantives (2)in the same case (40) (3) which refer to the same person or thing, (4) and have the same syntactical relation to the rest of the clause.
The first substantive can belong to any category (e.g., subject, Predicate nom., etc.) and the second is merely a clarification, description, or identification of who or what is mentioned.(41) Thus, the appositive “piggy-backs” on the first nominative’s use, as it were. For this reason simple apposition is not an independent syntactical category.
The appositive functions very much like a PN in a convertible proposition that is, it refers to the same thing as the first noun.(42) The difference, however, is that a PN makes an assertion about the S (an equative verb is either stated or implied); with appositives there is assumption, not assertion (no verb is in mind). In the sentence “Paul is an apostle,” apostle is a PN; in the sentence, “Paul the apostle is in prison,” apostle is in apposition to Paul.
(40)The nom. occasionally is in apposition to an oblique case, but the semantics are the same. See discussion below.
(41) An appositive, strictly speaking, is substantival, not adjectival. Thus, adjectives or Participles in second attributive position are not generally appositives, but usually hate an adjectival force.
(42) The significance of this will be seen in our discussion of the gen. case, for the gen can also involve a syntactical category, vi.t., the gen of apposition. The semantics involved in such a category are quite different from those involved in simple apposition.
With proper names typically the first noun is anarthrous and the appositional noun is articular.
Matt 3:1 παραγινεται ιωαννης ο βαπτιστης κηρυσσων
John the Baptist came Preaching
Mark 15:4 0 εν αις ην και μαρια η μαγδαληνη
among them also were Mary the Magdalene...
Luke 1:24 συνελαβεν ελισαβετ η γυνη αυτου
Elizabeth his wife conceived
Rev 1:5 ο μαρτυς ο πιστος ο πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων
the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, Grand Rapids MI, 1996, Daniel Wallace, pp.48-49
• A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament 2 Co 4:17
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
Literally, “the for the moment (old adverb parautika, here only in N.T.) lightness (old word, in N.T. only here and Mat_11:30).”
More and more exceedingly (kath' huperbolēn eis huperbolēn). Like piling Pelion on Ossa, “according to excess unto excess.” See note on 1Co_12:31.
Eternal weight of glory (aiōnion baros doxēs). Careful balancing of words in contrast (affliction vs. glory, lightness vs. weight, for the moment vs. eternal).
• Vincent Word Studies
A far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (καθ' ὑπερεβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης)
Rev., more and more exceedingly an eternal weight, etc. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Lit., exceedingly unto excess. The use of such cumulative expressions is common with Paul. See, for example, Phi_1:23, lit., much more better; Rom_8:37, abundantly the conquerors; Eph_3:20, exceeding abundantly, etc. Note how the words are offset: for a moment, eternal; light, weight; affliction, glory.
 
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You make the accusation that Greek languages resources "are all written by people who have theological positions to defend." As if you are not arguing from a theological position which you want to defend with, I might add, zero expertise in Greek grammar.
.....So you are of the opinion that the occurrence of a word in one verse out of 31,172 vss. in the Bible determines the meaning of a word and we should ignore everything else? This is the definition of proof-text theology.
.....Does God's throne only endure for a finite period? Hebrews 1:8 "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:"
.....Does God only live for a finite period? Revelation 15:7 "God, who liveth for ever and ever." This verse is an example of "an expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated." See Robertson and Vincent below. This is known as Greek Grammar not one verse proof text theology.

.....Eight verses from the NT which conclusively show that "aion" definitely means "eternity" and "aionios" definitely means "eternal."

[1] 1 Timothy 1:17
(17) Now unto the King eternal, (1) immortal,(2) invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever (1) and ever (1). Amen.
(1) αἰών/aion (2) ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos
In this verse “aion” is in apposition, see def. below, with “immortal.” If “aion” means “age(s),” a finite period, God cannot be for “a finite period” and “immortal” at the same time. God is “eternal” and “immortal” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[2] Romans 2:7
(7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,(2) eternal (1) life:
“Aion” is in apposition with “immortality.” If “aion” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternity” and “immortality” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[3] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal (1a) weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;(3) but the things which are not seen are eternal.(1a)
(1a) αἰώνιος/aionios (3) πρόσκαιρος/proskairos
Here “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Aionios” cannot mean “age(s)” a finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary.” “Eternal” is.
[4] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1)For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal (1a) in the heavens.
Here “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” An “aionios” house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” “Aionios” means “eternal.”
[5] Hebrews 7:24
(24) But this man, because he continueth ever,(1) hath an unchangeable (4) priesthood.
(4) ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos
Here “unchangeable” is in apposition with “aion.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Melchizadek cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[6] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,(2) by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.(1)
Here “incorruptible” is in apposition with “aion.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only for “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” means “eternal.”
[7] 1Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.[aionios]
Here “immortality” is in apposition with aionios. If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. “Aionios” means “eternal.”
[8] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
Here “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “fleshly” people reap “corruption” but people in the spirit people reap life aionios i.e. not “corruption.” “Aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
.....The definition of “apposition” from a Greek grammar.

III. Nominative in Simple Apposition
The nominative case (as well as the other cases) can be an appositive to another substantive in the same case. The usage is quite common. There are four features of simple apposition to be noted (the first two are structural clues; the last two features are semantic): An appositional construction inz’olz’es (1) two adjacent substantives (2)in the same case (40) (3) which refer to the same person or thing, (4) and have the same syntactical relation to the rest of the clause.
The first substantive can belong to any category (e.g., subject, Predicate nom., etc.) and the second is merely a clarification, description, or identification of who or what is mentioned.(41) Thus, the appositive “piggy-backs” on the first nominative’s use, as it were. For this reason simple apposition is not an independent syntactical category.
The appositive functions very much like a PN in a convertible proposition that is, it refers to the same thing as the first noun.(42) The difference, however, is that a PN makes an assertion about the S (an equative verb is either stated or implied); with appositives there is assumption, not assertion (no verb is in mind). In the sentence “Paul is an apostle,” apostle is a PN; in the sentence, “Paul the apostle is in prison,” apostle is in apposition to Paul.
(40)The nom. occasionally is in apposition to an oblique case, but the semantics are the same. See discussion below.
(41) An appositive, strictly speaking, is substantival, not adjectival. Thus, adjectives or Participles in second attributive position are not generally appositives, but usually hate an adjectival force.
(42) The significance of this will be seen in our discussion of the gen. case, for the gen can also involve a syntactical category, vi.t., the gen of apposition. The semantics involved in such a category are quite different from those involved in simple apposition.
With proper names typically the first noun is anarthrous and the appositional noun is articular.
Matt 3:1 παραγινεται ιωαννης ο βαπτιστης κηρυσσων
John the Baptist came Preaching
Mark 15:4 0 εν αις ην και μαρια η μαγδαληνη
among them also were Mary the Magdalene...
Luke 1:24 συνελαβεν ελισαβετ η γυνη αυτου
Elizabeth his wife conceived
Rev 1:5 ο μαρτυς ο πιστος ο πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων
the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, Grand Rapids MI, 1996, Daniel Wallace, pp.48-49
• A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament 2 Co 4:17
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
Literally, “the for the moment (old adverb parautika, here only in N.T.) lightness (old word, in N.T. only here and Mat_11:30).”
More and more exceedingly (kath' huperbolēn eis huperbolēn). Like piling Pelion on Ossa, “according to excess unto excess.” See note on 1Co_12:31.
Eternal weight of glory (aiōnion baros doxēs). Careful balancing of words in contrast (affliction vs. glory, lightness vs. weight, for the moment vs. eternal).
• Vincent Word Studies
A far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (καθ' ὑπερεβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης)
Rev., more and more exceedingly an eternal weight, etc. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Lit., exceedingly unto excess. The use of such cumulative expressions is common with Paul. See, for example, Phi_1:23, lit., much more better; Rom_8:37, abundantly the conquerors; Eph_3:20, exceeding abundantly, etc. Note how the words are offset: for a moment, eternal; light, weight; affliction, glory.

Firstly, it's not one verse. There is verse after verse in the Scriptures that shows that aion doesn't mean eternal. All you've present is an example of taking one's theology and importing it into the definition of a word. This happens quite a bit among theologians.

One negative cancels any number of positives. If some says all cars are red then I only need to present one car that isn't red to prove that statement wrong. It doesn't matter if the person making the statement presents a million red cars. If I present one that isn't red the statement is proven false. Your statement that aion mean eternal is the same. I doesn't matter how many passages you present that you "think" make your case. If I present one that proves otherwise you case is proven false.

You see, what theologians do is they believe that God is eternal so when they see a passage that says aion ton aion, they interpret it as eternal because they already believe it to be so. That's actually circulate reasoning.

Let me ask you, is God's throne to the ages of the ages? Yes or no? You see, as an undefined period of time aion can mean any length of time, it's undefined. So ages of ages is undefined.

To say a word has two opposite meanings is illogical. It's clear that aion is used for a finite period of time. Therefore to claim that it is also infinite is illogical.

It's pretty simple, Jesus said at the end of the aion... Then. Then is after the end of the aion. Was Jesus correct? Yes or no, it's simple answer.
 
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Der Alte

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Firstly, it's not one verse. There is verse after verse in the Scriptures that shows that aion doesn't mean eternal. All you've present is an example of taking one's theology and importing it into the definition of a word. This happens quite a bit among theologians.
One negative cancels any number of positives. If some says all cars are red then I only need to present one car that isn't red to prove that statement wrong. It doesn't matter if the person making the statement presents a million red cars. If I present one that isn't red the statement is proven false. Your statement that aion mean eternal is the same. I doesn't matter how many passages you present that you "think" make your case. If I present one that proves otherwise you case is proven false.

You see, what theologians do is they believe that God is eternal so when they see a passage that says aion ton aion, they interpret it as eternal because they already believe it to be so. That's actually circulate reasoning.
Let me ask you, is God's throne to the ages of the ages? Yes or no? You see, as an undefined period of time aion can mean any length of time, it's undefined. So ages of ages is undefined.
To say a word has two opposite meanings is illogical. It's clear that aion is used for a finite period of time. Therefore to claim that it is also infinite is illogical.
It's pretty simple, Jesus said at the end of the aion... Then. Then is after the end of the aion. Was Jesus correct? Yes or no, it's simple answer.
Your objections are uninformed, unsupported, irrelevant and immaterial therefore do not merit consideration. The meaning of words in another language are not determined by isolated English translations. As I have proved from the eight passages I quoted above and in other posts in this thread aion and aionios are not just used to refer to something but are clearly defined, aion as eternity and aionios as eternal. Nothing you have said or could ever say makes any difference. For example,
1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.[αἰών/aion]
Here “aion” is in apposition with “incorruptible.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” undeniably means “eternity.” I am not aware of any occurrence where aion or aionios is defined as "finite" in a similar way. That either word is used to refer to a finite period does not define the words.
.....How do I explain it? As I have said many times before, hyperbole. Was Simon literally a stone when Jesus called him "Petros/rock?" Hypebole! Was Herod literally a fox when Jesus called him that? Hyperbole! Were James and John literally "sons of thunder" when Jesus called them that? Hyperbole! Was it possible for a a person to "gain the whole world?" Jesus said "what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Hyperbole!
 
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Butch5

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Your objections are uninformed, unsupported, irrelevant and immaterial therefore do not merit consideration. The meaning of words in another language are not determined by isolated English translations. As I have proved from the eight passages I quoted above and in other posts in this thread aion and aionios are not just used to refer to something but are clearly defined, aion as eternity and aionios as eternal. Nothing you have said or could ever say makes any difference. For example,
1 Peter 1:23
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.[αἰών/aion]
Here “aion” is in apposition with “incorruptible.” The seed of God cannot be “incorruptible” and only “a finite period” at the same time. “Aion” undeniably means “eternity.” I am not aware of any occurrence where aion or aionios is defined as "finite" in a similar way. That either word is used to refer to a finite period does not define the words.
.....How do I explain it? As I have said many times before, hyperbole. Was Simon literally a stone when Jesus called him "Petros/rock?" Hypebole! Was Herod literally a fox when Jesus called him that? Hyperbole! Were James and John literally "sons of thunder" when Jesus called them that? Hyperbole! Was it possible for a a person to "gain the whole world?" Jesus said "what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Hyperbole!

So, you just ignore what I said and post more passages. That doesn't change the facts. You also didn't answer the question. It's a simple yes or no question.

It's pretty simple, Jesus said at the end of the aion... Then. Then is after the end of the aion. Was Jesus correct? Yes or no, it's simple answer.
 
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Der Alte

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So, you just ignore what I said and post more passages. That doesn't change the facts. You also didn't answer the question. It's a simple yes or no question.
It's pretty simple, Jesus said at the end of the aion... Then. Then is after the end of the aion. Was Jesus correct? Yes or no, it's simple answer.
Yes I did. Your argument, your position, your objection is uninformed, unsupported, irrelevant and immaterial therefore do not merit consideration. One verse does not determine the meaning of a word. You are trying to make a grammatical argument based on only one verse. Your argument "One negative cancels any number of positives." is false. That may be true for "red cars' but it is not true in language. As I have shown with verses where Jesus used hyperbole. There are verses where a stone is literally a stone but Peter was not a stone when Jesus called him one.
 
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Butch5

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Yes I did. Your argument, your position, your objection is uninformed, unsupported, irrelevant and immaterial therefore do not merit consideration. One verse does not determine the meaning of a word. You are trying to make a grammatical argument based on only one verse. Your argument "One negative cancels any number of positives." is false. That may be true for "red cars' but it is not true in language. As I have shown with verses where Jesus used hyperbole. There are verses where a stone is literally a stone but Peter was not a stone when Jesus called him one.

Your ad hominems are really not helping your argument. We Jesus right? Yes or no. All you have to do is answer yes or no.
 
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