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What is Sin

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GodsChild07

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The church has accepted and embraced a definition of "Sin" that is both lame and inaccurate. "Missing the mark" is not a good definition of sin. Not hitting the bullseye in an archery contest is "missing the mark". Is that a sin?
What then is sin?

Sin is willfully, intentionally doing anything that you know is against the will of God.

Even if it isn't against the will of God but you think it is, that makes it a sin.

If however you do it and you do not know that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin. It may be a mistake. It may be breaking a law, but unless you KNOW that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin against God.

A sin can NOT be accidental. If it is not willfull or intentional, it is not a sin.
 

Solidlyhere

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Oh boy, here he goes again: "Sin is willfully, intentionally doing anything that you know is against the will of God."

So, let's say the OP is a member of the Man-Boy Love Society. They are on a "holy" mission: to have sex with boys before they turn 8 years old. they KNOW it's the RIGHT thing to do.

So, the OP (by his own definition) will NOT be committing a sin.
Yes sir, "Teach your children well."

So, I guess we should all embrace the definition propounded by the OP.
And, of course, he wants us to believe: "The Church [including my Church] has accepted and embraced a definition of "Sin" that is both lame and inaccurate."

Well, as tempting as the OP's definition might be for Child Molesters, I would rather use the "LAME AND INACCURATE" definition my Church uses.
 
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holo

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The fact that a pervert may actually be depraved enough to believe that what he's doing is right, doesn't make it good. It doesn't mean we should accept it, or that God wants it.

Our legal systems will usually ask if the defendant realized that he or she was in fact doing something illegal, and if they didn't know, they can get a reduced sentence or even go free.

I think both "missing the mark" and a list of rules are extremely poor definitions of sin.
 
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seekingmyLord

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Sin is walking on a path that deviates from the direction that God is leading, whether willful or not.

If I am driving down a road that has no speed limit signs that does not mean I am not breaking the law if I am speeding, even if I am not doing it willfully. Replace breaking the speed limit with breaking God's heart and then explain to me how it being unintentional makes a difference.

Just like the person speeding at 55 MPH in a neighborhood where families walk their dogs and children play in the streets, I think we have at least a slight inkling when we are sinning--even if not a believer.

So, I believe that whatever turns us away from the Lord is a sin under any circumstances.
 
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ticker

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Even if it isn't against the will of God but you think it is, that makes it a sin.

Hey there GC...this one's got me looped!

So...I may actually think eating pork is a sin (which it's not)...so if after 3 months of abstaining from it I finally give in......then I've committed a sin?

Huh? :)


...ticker confooozed
 
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GodsChild07

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Hey there GC...this one's got me looped!

So...I may actually think eating pork is a sin (which it's not)...so if after 3 months of abstaining from it I finally give in......then I've committed a sin?

Huh? :)


...ticker confooozed
If you believe that eating pork is against the will of God and you do it anyways, you are sinning. This is because you are willfully going against what you BELIEVE to be gods will (even though it isn't)
 
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music4two

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Actually the word sin is quite correctly defined as missing the mark. There is an unfortunate teaching become prevalent that takes a legalistic approach to sin, but this is not the way in which the Hebrews saw sin. Sin does not equal evil. There are certainly evil sins and evil people but the common definition of sin in the Hebrew means missing the mark.

The Hebrew word “ajx” (chata) means “to miss the mark,” as when the archer misses his target. This word isalso used when the student, or son, misses his target or direction. In this last case, the word “ajx” (chata) istranslated as “sin.” Sin is to miss the target, the teacher or father has directed.

This understanding ties in directly with the understanding of the law from the Hebrew perspective.

The torah as the Hebrews (including Jesus) practiced had little to do with law as we know it today. Jesus never taught from the perspective of Law. He always dealt with the motives and intentions of man. Jesus taught wisdom on how to live to become sons of God.

In order to understand sin, the law and our responsibility, perhaps it is important to understand the Hebrew behind the word comandments and what it means to break or keep them.

The word commandment or mits'vah (Heb) is better understood as a directive The Ancient Hebrews were a nomadic people who traveled the deserts in search of green pastures for their flocks. A nomad uses the various rivers, mountains, rock outcroppings, etc as landmarks to give them their direction. The verb form of mits'vah is tsavah meaning to direct one on a journey. The mits'vah of the Bible are not commands as a general might command his troops. Nor are they rules and regulations, they are directives or landmarks that we look for to guide us. A related word tsiyon meaning landmark is also the word translated as Zion, the mountain of God but, not just a mountain, it is the landmark. The proper understanding of the word commandment is directions toward Zion.

The term to “keep the commandments has also been missunderstood by many. The word shamiyr (keep) means a thorn. This is in reference the the sheepfold and the fences built of thorny bushes to protect their flocks. The word shamar means to guard and protect and can be seen in the Aaronic blessing, May Yahweh bless you and keep (guard and protect) you. One keeps the commands of God by guarding and protecting them.

The Hebrew word parar, translated as break, is the treading of grain on the threshing floor by oxen to open up the hulls to remove the seeds. To the Ancient Hebrews, breaking the commands of God was equated with throwing it on the ground and trampling on it. In both cases, keeping and breaking are related to ones attitude toward the commands. A child who disobeys his parents and is genuinely apologetic shows honor and respect to his parents. But a child who willfully disobeys with no sign of remorse has trampled on his parents teachings and deserves punishment.

The purpose of a parents Torah is to teach and bring the children to maturity. If the Torah is violated out of disrespect or defiant disobedience, the child is punished. If the child desires to follow the instructions out of a loving obedience but falls short of the expectations, (missing the mark) the child is commended for the effort and counseled on how to perform the instructions better the next time. Unlike Torah, law is a set of rules from a government or authority and binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law was broken with the penalty of punishment or it was not broken.

The Torah was a set of teachings on wisdom designed to help the child live, prosper and succeed in this world as a son. Teachings designed to develop proper character and heart toward God and man. God, as our heavenly Father, gives his children his Torah in the same manner and for the same reasons. God’s laws are all designed with the welfare of His children in mind. They are designed to further His purpose to raise up children with His character. The so-called laws of today must function as the Torah did in Biblical times or they are not God’s teachings.

Do we show proper attitude toward the directions given us to find Zion? Do we miss the mark but keep a good attitude or do we willfully trample underfoot our heavenly Father's directives?

Some information taken directly from "The Ancient Hebrew Research Center".
 
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Fireinfolding

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Actually the word sin is quite correctly defined as missing the mark. There is an unfortunate teaching become prevalent that takes a legalistic approach to sin, but this is not the way in which the Hebrews saw sin. Sin does not equal evil. There are certainly evil sins and evil people but the common definition of sin in the Hebrew means missing the mark.

The Hebrew word “ajx” (chata) means “to miss the mark,” as when the archer misses his target. This word isalso used when the student, or son, misses his target or direction. In this last case, the word “ajx” (chata) istranslated as “sin.” Sin is to miss the target, the teacher or father has directed.

This understanding ties in directly with the understanding of the law from the Hebrew perspective.

The torah as the Hebrews (including Jesus) practiced had little to do with law as we know it today. Jesus never taught from the perspective of Law. He always dealt with the motives and intentions of man. Jesus taught wisdom on how to live to become sons of God.

In order to understand sin, the law and our responsibility, perhaps it is important to understand the Hebrew behind the word comandments and what it means to break or keep them.

The word commandment or mits'vah (Heb) is better understood as a directive The Ancient Hebrews were a nomadic people who traveled the deserts in search of green pastures for their flocks. A nomad uses the various rivers, mountains, rock outcroppings, etc as landmarks to give them their direction. The verb form of mits'vah is tsavah meaning to direct one on a journey. The mits'vah of the Bible are not commands as a general might command his troops. Nor are they rules and regulations, they are directives or landmarks that we look for to guide us. A related word tsiyon meaning landmark is also the word translated as Zion, the mountain of God but, not just a mountain, it is the landmark. The proper understanding of the word commandment is directions toward Zion.

The term to “keep the commandments has also been missunderstood by many. The word shamiyr (keep) means a thorn. This is in reference the the sheepfold and the fences built of thorny bushes to protect their flocks. The word shamar means to guard and protect and can be seen in the Aaronic blessing, May Yahweh bless you and keep (guard and protect) you. One keeps the commands of God by guarding and protecting them.

The Hebrew word parar, translated as break, is the treading of grain on the threshing floor by oxen to open up the hulls to remove the seeds. To the Ancient Hebrews, breaking the commands of God was equated with throwing it on the ground and trampling on it. In both cases, keeping and breaking are related to ones attitude toward the commands. A child who disobeys his parents and is genuinely apologetic shows honor and respect to his parents. But a child who willfully disobeys with no sign of remorse has trampled on his parents teachings and deserves punishment.

The purpose of a parents Torah is to teach and bring the children to maturity. If the Torah is violated out of disrespect or defiant disobedience, the child is punished. If the child desires to follow the instructions out of a loving obedience but falls short of the expectations, (missing the mark) the child is commended for the effort and counseled on how to perform the instructions better the next time. Unlike Torah, law is a set of rules from a government or authority and binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law was broken with the penalty of punishment or it was not broken.

The Torah was a set of teachings on wisdom designed to help the child live, prosper and succeed in this world as a son. Teachings designed to develop proper character and heart toward God and man. God, as our heavenly Father, gives his children his Torah in the same manner and for the same reasons. God’s laws are all designed with the welfare of His children in mind. They are designed to further His purpose to raise up children with His character. The so-called laws of today must function as the Torah did in Biblical times or they are not God’s teachings.

Do we show proper attitude toward the directions given us to find Zion? Do we miss the mark but keep a good attitude or do we willfully trample underfoot our heavenly Father's directives?

Some information taken directly from "The Ancient Hebrew Research Center".

This is very interesting Music4two. The first thing that came to me was one who "despised" (that must be in heart) Moses law died. The other is "counted" in "doing despite" unto the Spirit of grace. These do appear to be in heart.

Am I picking this up correctly? because that appears to make great sense, though I never heard it before.

I always enjoy your posts:thumbsup:

Peace

Fireinfolding
 
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amadeus2

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The church has accepted and embraced a definition of "Sin" that is both lame and inaccurate. "Missing the mark" is not a good definition of sin. Not hitting the bullseye in an archery contest is "missing the mark". Is that a sin?
What then is sin?

Sin is willfully, intentionally doing anything that you know is against the will of God.

Even if it isn't against the will of God but you think it is, that makes it a sin.

If however you do it and you do not know that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin. It may be a mistake. It may be breaking a law, but unless you KNOW that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin against God.

A sin can NOT be accidental. If it is not willfull or intentional, it is not a sin.

Are you are describing what you would like it to be or what the Bible says? In the O.T. under mosaic law the sin of ignorance required atonement. Willful sins on the other hand usually resulted in the person being cut off from God's people and certain willful sins resulted in death.Has God who never changes, changed on this since the resurrection of Jesus?

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

"If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering." Lev 4:2-3

[The chapter continues described the sacrifice offered for this sin commited in ignorance...]
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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1Joh 3:4 (NKJV) Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness (459), and sin is lawlessness. (459)

Thayers Greek Lexicon # 459 anomos {an'-om-os}from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3551; TDNT - 4:1086,646; adj
AV - without law 4, transgressor 2, wicked 2, lawless 1, unlawful 1; 10
1) destitute of (the Mosaic) law
1a) of the Gentiles
2) departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked

Marc
 
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music4two

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This is very interesting Music4two. The first thing that came to me was one who "despised" (that must be in heart) Moses law died. The other is "counted" in "doing despite" unto the Spirit of grace. These do appear to be in heart.

Am I picking this up correctly? because that appears to make great sense, though I never heard it before.

I always enjoy your posts:thumbsup:

Peace

Fireinfolding
Yes I think you are understanding correctly.
 
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GodsChild07

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Are you are describing what you would like it to be or what the Bible says? In the O.T. under mosaic law the sin of ignorance required atonement. Willful sins on the other hand usually resulted in the person being cut off from God's people and certain willful sins resulted in death.Has God who never changes, changed on this since the resurrection of Jesus?

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

"If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering." Lev 4:2-3

[The chapter continues described the sacrifice offered for this sin commited in ignorance...]
We are no longer under "The Law".
 
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New_Wineskin

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The church has accepted and embraced a definition of "Sin" that is both lame and inaccurate. "Missing the mark" is not a good definition of sin. Not hitting the bullseye in an archery contest is "missing the mark". Is that a sin?
What then is sin?

Sin is willfully, intentionally doing anything that you know is against the will of God.

Even if it isn't against the will of God but you think it is, that makes it a sin.

If however you do it and you do not know that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin. It may be a mistake. It may be breaking a law, but unless you KNOW that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin against God.

A sin can NOT be accidental. If it is not willfull or intentional, it is not a sin.

I agree that "missing the mark" isn't good enough - that is about works . Neither is it about observing the Scriptures - the written code - the Law . Paul writes about that as follows :

20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Sin deals with relationships with the Lord and others . The three "love" commands show that .
 
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