WHAT IS SEED MONEY CONCEPT?

[Daniel9v9]

If desiring to be rich leads to temptation why did God bless abraham and Job exceedingly great?

There is no example in either Abraham or Job that they wished to be prosperous and prayed for wealth, but rather, God in His good mercy bestowed wealth on them according to His plan. That is, to establish the nation of Israel and bring forth Jesus Christ. God may or may not bless us financially, but it's nowhere a promise or a command in Scripture that all Christians will be wealthy.

We are called to be content in whatever situation we're in and trust in God; if we are rich, we are to be generous. If we are poor, we are to be patient. We should not chase after wealth, but instead, lay up treasures in heaven.

Two questions for you:
1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

 

[Si_monfaith]

There is no example in either Abraham or Job that they wished to be prosperous and prayed for wealth, but rather, God in His good mercy bestowed wealth on them according to His plan. That is, to establish the nation of Israel and bring forth Jesus Christ. God may or may not bless us financially, but it's nowhere a promise or a command in Scripture that all Christians will be wealthy.

We are called to be content in whatever situation we're in and trust in God; if we are rich, we are to be generous. If we are poor, we are to be patient. We should not chase after wealth, but instead, lay up treasures in heaven.

Two questions for you:
1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

Does Romans 14:1 say christians are weak in faith & need to grow in faith (2Thessalonians1:3)?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Does Romans 14:1 say christians are weak in faith & need to grow in faith (2Thessalonians1:3)?

Sorry, I fail to see what you imply. Do you mean that these verses are somehow evidence that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith? Or are you saying something else?

 

[hhodgson]

Now, is the seed money concept denying the truth of "faith in 2 Cor 8:9 alone" to gain riches?

If you have an answer you can answer without digressing that makes zero sense.

You want to talk about zero sense? re-read all of your posts!

 

[Si_monfaith]

Sorry, I fail to see what you imply. Do you mean that these verses are somehow evidence that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith? Or are you saying something else?

In light of Romans 14:1 & 2Thessalonians 1:3, do you yet believe all christians are strong in faith & therefore have no need to grow in faith?

 

[Si_monfaith]

You want to talk about zero sense? re-read all of your posts!

The question is, is the seed money concept, denying the truth of "faith in 2 Cor 8:9 alone" to gain riches?

I am waiting for a matured answer that makes sense.

 

[Daniel9v9]

In light of Romans 14:1 & 2Thessalonians 1:3, do you yet believe all christians are strong in faith & therefore have no need to grow in faith?

Well, let me be very clear. Scriptures are explicit on that (1) whoever believes and trusts in our Lord Jesus Christ for their forgivness of sins, regardless of how much they understand and regardless of how weak or strong their faith may be, are justified on account of the person and works of Christ, by God's grace. As Jesus said: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." So faith then, when it comes to justification, is binary. A person either believes or he doesn't. There are no degrees of salvation. A person is either saved by God's grace or damned by his own sin and rejection of God's grace through Christ.

However, (2) Christians can indeed have weak faith, and be troubled by sin and be contrite. God says He loves a contrite heart.

So, again, I ask the same two questions:
1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Well, let me be very clear. Scriptures are explicit on that (1) whoever believes and trusts in our Lord Jesus Christ for their forgivness of sins, regardless of how much they understand and regardless of how weak or strong their faith may be, are justified on account of the person and works of Christ, by God's grace. As Jesus said: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." So faith then, when it comes to justification, is binary. A person either believes or he doesn't. There are no degrees of salvation. A person is either saved by God's grace or damned by his own sin and rejection of God's grace through Christ.

However, (2) Christians can indeed have weak faith, and be troubled by sin and be contrite. God says He loves a contrite heart.

So, again, I ask the same two questions:
1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

Did Jesus take poverty upon Himself & give His riches (2Corinthians8:9)?

Is God pleased with a weak faith & does not want His people to grow in faith?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Did Jesus take poverty upon Himself & give His riches (2Corinthians8:9)?

Is God pleased with a weak faith & does not want His people to grow in faith?

Christ did indeed for our sake became poor, so that we by His poverty might become rich, meaning salvation, the forgiveness of sins and adoption, not earthly gain.

God indeed wishes us to grow in faith, which is why we have received the amazing gift of the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Christ did indeed for our sake became poor, so that we by His poverty might become rich, meaning salvation, the forgiveness of sins and adoption, not earthly gain.

God indeed wishes us to grow in faith, which is why we have received the amazing gift of the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us.

Christ did indeed for our sake became poor, so that we by His poverty might become rich, meaning salvation, the forgiveness of sins and adoption, not earthly gain.

Where does 2 Corinthians 8:9 refer riches to salvation?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Where does 2 Corinthians 8:9 refer riches to salvation?

Sorry if you missed it, but that's the first thing I explained in post #2. But I'm happy to emphasise how this verse is NOT about worldly gain, but about salvation.

2 Corinthians 8 is not about how to secure material wealth, but on the contrary, an encouragement to give freely and generously to the poor and needy. Notice how the churches of Macedonia in "their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part"! In other words, they are very poor yet very generous, because of their faith and hope in Christ; because of their joy in salvation - God's grace.

Paul uses the example of Macedonian churches above and encourages the Corinthian churches to embrace the same attitude of grace and generosity towards the poor. He encourages the Corinthians to see through their promise of aid according to what they have, same as the Macedonian church.

So in this chapter, there is neither a command, a promise, nor an example of seeking, desiring or praying for material wealth. Neither is it an example for donating money in order to receive more money back, which is utterly absurd! But Paul sums up the purpose by quoting Exodus 16:18. That is, he doesn't desire that anyone should be burdened, but "that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness." Paul is talking about fairness and supplying needs, and expands on what it means to be a cheerful giver in the next chapter. This concurs with the petition in the Lord's Prayer: "give us today our daily bread", as already explained in post #16

The whole point of giving generously is rooted in Paul's earlier argument that because of the joy we have in salvation, we can also be compassionate. This serves as a model for us in two ways:
1. We are to be selfless, generous and compassionate for the sake of the needs of our neighbour.
2. Through the good works of believers, we can see an image of Christ. That is, we are not called to be charity workers for only that end, although it is in and of itself a commendable thing, but it's ultimately a means of sustaining the members of the church and to further the Gospel. We can see the relationship between those who are appointed to serve and those who are appointed to preach in Acts 6:1-7

So, as you can see, 2 Corinthians 8 is not a matter of gaining wealth, but about God's grace.

Now, I've been very patient in answering all your questions, but you haven't answered mine. Again:
1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Sorry if you missed it, but that's the first thing I explained in post #2. But I'm happy to emphasise how this verse is NOT about worldly gain, but about salvation.

2 Corinthians 8 is not about how to secure material wealth, but on the contrary, an encouragement to give freely and generously to the poor and needy. Notice how the churches of Macedonia in "their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part"! In other words, they are very poor yet very generous, because of their faith and hope in Christ; because of their joy in salvation - God's grace.

Paul uses the example of Macedonian churches above and encourages the Corinthian churches to embrace the same attitude of grace and generosity towards the poor. He encourages the Corinthians to see through their promise of aid according to what they have, same as the Macedonian church.

So in this chapter, there is neither a command, a promise, nor an example of seeking, desiring or praying for material wealth. Neither is it an example for donating money in order to receive more money back, which is utterly absurd! But Paul sums up the purpose by quoting Exodus 16:18. That is, he doesn't desire that anyone should be burdened, but "that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness." Paul is talking about fairness and supplying needs, and expands on what it means to be a cheerful giver in the next chapter. This concurs with the petition in the Lord's Prayer: "give us today our daily bread", as already explained in post #16

The whole point of giving generously is rooted in Paul's earlier argument that because of the joy we have in salvation, we can also be compassionate. This serves as a model for us in two ways:
1. We are to be selfless, generous and compassionate for the sake of the needs of our neighbour.
2. Through the good works of believers, we can see an image of Christ. That is, we are not called to be charity workers for only that end, although it is in and of itself a commendable thing, but it's ultimately a means of sustaining the members of the church and to further the Gospel. We can see the relationship between those who are appointed to serve and those who are appointed to preach in Acts 6:1-7

So, as you can see, 2 Corinthians 8 is not a matter of gaining wealth, but about God's grace.

Now, I've been very patient in answering all your questions, but you haven't answered mine. Again:
1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

So you agree 2 Corinthians 8 talks about supplying others needs financially & not about salvation?

Moreover, do you agree that 2 Corinthians 8:9 specifically talks about gaining financial riches given by grace in Christ?

 

[Daniel9v9]

So you agree 2 Corinthians 8 talks about supplying others needs financially & not about salvation?

Moreover, do you agree that 2 Corinthians 8:9 specifically talks about gaining financial riches given by grace in Christ?

I already answered this twice. Please re-read my posts if you genuinely want to know, and be warned that the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I already answered this twice. Please re-read my posts if you genuinely want to know, and be warned that the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.

Are you confusing between trusting in money & asking God for money by faith in Christ's merits?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Are you confusing between trusting in money & asking God for money by faith in Christ's merits?

No, I'm honouring God's Word and have provided several explicit texts explaining how the Gospel is not to be used as a means for gain. I think most people would understand my position if they read my posts.

I'd still be interested to hear your answer to my two earlier questions, though.

 

[Si_monfaith]

No, I'm honouring God's Word and have provided several explicit texts explaining how the Gospel is not to be used as a means for gain. I think most people would understand my position if they read my posts.

I'd still be interested to hear your answer to my two earlier questions, though.

Were your answers totally inadequate in light of scriptural evidence that God wants us wealthy & healthy by faith?

Is sin defined not as a violation of the law in the new covenant but rather disbelief (Romans 14:14)?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Were your answers totally inadequate in light of scriptural evidence that God wants us wealthy & healthy by faith?

Is sin defined not as a violation of the law in the new covenant but rather disbelief (Romans 14:14)?

Every verse you've referenced so far has not been about how to amass wealth, but in fact, the opposite; about being generous with whatever we have; to be content; to not seek after riches, to suffer for Christ's sake; to seek God and uphold God's Law and Gospel. It's really quite easy to understand if you read the verses in their full context.

Again, as it's plainly written in God's Word: "Give me neither poverty nor riches" and “Those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.”

I've answered all your questions and I'll answer your latest question too, if you'll answer my questions. You've been dodging them many times now

1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Every verse you've referenced so far has not been about how to amass wealth, but in fact, the opposite; about being generous with whatever we have; to be content; to not seek after riches, to suffer for Christ's sake; to seek God and uphold God's Law and Gospel. It's really quite easy to understand if you read the verses in their full context.

Again, as it's plainly written in God's Word: "Give me neither poverty nor riches" and “Those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.”

I've answered all your questions and I'll answer your latest question too, if you'll answer my questions. You've been dodging them many times now

1. Why do you wish to be wealthy?
2. Do you believe that all Christians who are poor have a weak faith, or have forgotten to pray for wealth, or are punished by God, or something to this effect?

If poverty is God's will why did God create the world without poverty?

 

[Daniel9v9]

If poverty is God's will why did God create the world without poverty?

I can answer that if you can answer my questions above Or at the very least, find a Biblical passage - not just an isolated verse taken out of context - but a whole text where in the entire context we have a command, a promise and an example for praying for wealth. I can promise that you won’t find it.

If you can’t provide either of these things, I don’t think I have anything else to add and I rest my case!

 

[Si_monfaith]

I can answer that if you can answer my questions above Or at the very least, find a Biblical passage - not just an isolated verse taken out of context - but a whole text where in the entire context we have a command, a promise and an example for praying for wealth. I can promise that you won’t find it.

If you can’t provide either of these things, I don’t think I have anything else to add and I rest my case!

Is 2Corinthians 8:9 not about salvation as clearly evident but about becoming rich by faith in Christ who took our poverty?

Have you sold all your possessions and gave to the poor?