What is "rock bottom" for you?

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks for the support.

I guess it is PTSD of a sort. You replay it in slow motion in your head for a long time after, wondering if there was more you could have done.

The feeling of responsibility is not rational, it is emotive - I have heard the same thing from others in charge of , but not in control of , events that lead to fatality, you blame yourself.

And when She died , I guess a little of me did too. It is one of the times you ask why such nasty people are able to destroy wonderful people who radiate warmth to all they meet.

I can only resign myself to the hope she is in a better place now.

But for all those who say " if they did it to me I would do XYZ" my answer is you cannot know. One of my managers was a reasonable amateur martial artist , how good I don't know, but she had won titles, and because we handled valuable things and cash , we had training sessions on what to do were we victims of a raid. My manager said she would " sort them out" . In the event, when they came in, she fled behind a locked door, blocking our ability to leave, so myself and the victim were trapped. I don't blame her at all. But you can never know.

Two weeks later my manager left without notice and never returned. It affected us all.

I know I can't say much more. I agree one can never know what they will do until they are actually faced with a situation.

And I suspect you rationally know you are not responsible.

I hope you are able to reconcile your soul to accept the forgiveness of God, at least ... that's important, though I suspect not at all easy.

I pray you find peace. God be with you.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

My brother's rock bottom moment for smoking was watching Mum die of lung cancer. I was overseas at the time and missed most of it. (yes guilty as charged on my part)
He quit smoking and after a few years went from an apathetic Cradle Catholic to a Protestant Pentecostal. And now he speaks in tongues! However weird I find his overabundant evangelism now, I am impressed by His rebirth. This guy definitely lets God run the show. And despite not finding a suitable partner in life, he is a shining light for the Lord! There is not a secular bone in his body now! He is transformed!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Ben Cousins. He's an ex Aussie football legend. Now aged 40, he has lost everything, his whole fortune, 5 homes, due to a drug addiction to meth and cocaine. He lost his wife and kids and it seems the support of his family, who wont have him in their house. He lives out of a backpack. He looks likely to spend Christmas in jail.
But he hasn't woken up yet. No epiphany. He is still an addict.
He has a charming side which I think he uses even now to survive, staying on friends' couches. He has an ability to manipulate. He hasn't really come clean about himself. He refuses to admit. When will his rock bottom be reached? For some unfortunately, they have to suicide. There is no epiphany. How sad.

 

[Fish and Bread]

I'm fortunate enough not to have ever had any alchohol or substance abuse problems. I say "fortunate", because I believe for most people there is very little difference between an addict and a non-addict in terms of things they can control. People either have a disposition towards being addicted to something that is almost completely beyond their control, or they don't. We've all had times where we maybe have had a few too many drinks in an evening, but some biological trigger kicks in for some people the next day where they need more and go on a bender and become alcholocs, and other people just wake up and don't need alcohol at all that day, or go back to literally just 1 or 2 drinks at dinner each day and that's it. Its a bit like some of us get that unmerited grace and some don't- and it really doesn't seem fair to the people who don't. I try to be careful not to slip into the habit of looking down on people or whatever, because I know there but for the grace of God go I, so to speak. I don't feel like they did anything wrong or I did anything right that some are alcoholics and I'm not, its just the genetic lottery.

I also think I'm "fortunate" in that area in the sense of I am glad I don't have that disposition- not only because of the burden it is to those who have it, but also because I do really like beer. If I became an alcoholic, I'd probably have to try not to drink, and frankly having a beer or two in the evening is one of the highlights of my day- Yeah, that does sound something an alcoholic would say, but its a healthy amount to drink for a male without pre-existing liver problems. Beer in moderation has some negative and some positive health outcomes attributed to it. Overall, it might tilt slightly toward the negative- I don't think doctors will ever tell anyone to start drinking the way they tell people to start eating more green vegetables, but I was glad to see the evidence of reduced heart risk and reduced likelihood of getting Type 2 diabetes if you don't already have it associated with moderate intake alcohol, which makes me feel better about the increased likelihood of liver problems and so on and so forth (Seems like a tradeoff). Moderation seems to be 2 per day for men and 1 for women in most of the summaries of research studies. I don't know why there's a gender distance listed. As a liberal, I'm predisposed to think its sexism, but there are some actual biological differences between genders in terms of health outcomes that are just biology, so I don't know).

I like to say I'm more of an ethusiast than alcoholic. I like my 2 beers a day an ordinate amount, but in the end, its in the moderate medical range, and it doesn't negatively effect my life (Some say thats the true measure of alcoholism- if alcohol is contributing to career or home problems, etc. If its effdcting your life that way, versus), I don't drive drunk, etc..

I also have chronic health problems that leave me in severe pain and I basically need the pain pills prescribed to me in order to cope at all- they don't prescribe enough to really stop the pain at any time, or to get me through a full day every day (I have to pick the times where I hurt the most), but if I were an addict, I once again might be left with nothing. And the intense physical pain with not even any partial relief would not be easy to cope with psycholoigically.

I would say I have a bit of a problem with food, which I've always had, a disposition just like alcoholism or whatever. Now, food is less hard than dealing with being an alcoholic would be in general (No one beats their spouse because he one too many chicken mcnuggets and there is no withdraw, etc), but the thing about food is that makes it somewhat unique is that you need some food to live, which is kind if like telling an alcoholic he needs to drink one beer a day but no more and no less. You can't try total abstinence like you can with alcohol, you have to have some to live (literally) and then you have to put down the fork or whatever, and not eat the wrong things, etc.- sometimes it might be easier just to stop eating and no get into that feedback loop where one bites leads to another,but if you do that, you starve to death. I did try to address the weight thing many times, but I have bigger fish to fry.

I actually had some time earlier in the week where I felt my life had hit rock bottom, but I couldn't figure out if it counts if its just a bunch of bad things happening and not an addiction issue. I also realized I'd been through worse, I just was having a rough time...

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Hey FaB
Take care. I've had to quit drinking altogether due to the onset of gout. Ouch!
I still eat too much. I wish I could fast more regularly. "Fast" not "Eat fast".

 

[Fish and Bread]

Hey FaB
Take care. I've had to quit drinking altogether due to the onset of gout. Ouch!

I feel your pain, almost literally, because I also have recurring gout. Fortunately, I am not in the mists of a flareup right now.

Honestly, I still drink. My doctor knew better than to even tell me to stop drinking over something like gout. I'll listen when he says the words "Your liver is failing"... probably.

Also, most of the time I drink and have no gout flareups. So, it's not a 1 to 1 where I start drinking and then get gout (It's a risk factor, like greasy foods and being overweight are risk factors- although I think maybe some people do drink and then immediately get gout or have their gout flareup. It may depend on the person.). I drink every day- just 1 or 2 beers. I only get gout 2 or 3 times a year. Honestly, gout is only like number 17 on my list of worst health conditions I have. I won't say it's inconsequential, because I mean obviously if your foot swells up and you have trouble putting a shoe on and have to hop around on one foot and have what is generally described as excruciating pain, you notice that. But I take steroids (by prescription) and it goes away. I actually have such a high level of daily pain to begin with that I didn't even notice I had gout until the 2nd flareup when it stuck around a while and had to spend 30 minutes forcing a foot into a shoe screaming in pain so I could walk my dog. It hurt a lot, but less than everything else hurts (Though gout is inconvenient because you have to put all your weight on a foot that has has it to move- walking my dog was really a labor of love when it was really bad once and I had to bring down the swelling to even shove my foot into a shoe with like leverage over 20 minutes of screaming in pain and then hobble around the neighborhood).

I do remember, though, you ever seen the Netflix series, Marco Polo (Since it's a religious forum, I should note that there is nudity and violence in the context of historical fiction on the show- don't watch it if you don't find that sort of thing suitable) and the Khan gets this case of gout and is smoking opium for it or something? I was sitting there with my own gout watching and nodding my head at every complaint he made- it was almost like a gout support group. Being a fictional character on my television, though, he refused to pass the opium pipe.

I have bigger problems, health wise and life wise, but I agree that gout is not nothing, as they say. I'm just glad it isn't an everyday thing. Seems to be flareup and medicine and it goes away in like a week or two at most, at least for me so far. I only had my first gout flareup in the last couple years.

 

[Armoured]

I notice some smokers don't even quit, even when their health deteriorates. You can hear them coughing.
For me, because I am such a hypochondriac, health or losing it is a big wake up call. I don't like scoring badly in blood tests for instance.
But losing home too. That would just kill me. I would be shattered.
Losing partner? Gutted. Absolutely gutted.
Is this topic too morbid?

Sleeping in a gutter in a pool of my own vomit would have to be right up there. What can I say? Self medication leads to some interesting places.

 

[Armoured]

My rock bottom is / would be realizing that I'm finally in such desperate straits that I look back with fondness on the times when suicide looked like a way out.

Suicide is pretty far up there, too. There are arguably worse places to be.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Take care.

Thanks. Things aren't going well for me. But, then again, when are they ever? Just a few extra things on my plate from my normal problems.

And somehow I am staring at the Atlantic Ocean out my window of the place I am very temporarily staying at now (Albeit in an area with near-freezing temperatures this time of year, so it's not like I am laying on the beach). Some would call that a vacation. But there is a ton of stuff going on logistically with my life, and a falling out with some key family members, and I am almost working on that full time when I'm not typing on the forum, so there's a lot of worry on my part and just basic day to day formulations of keeping afloat and figuring out where I am going to and how much it is costing me and how I am going to get there and so on and so forth, so to speak, and making sure I am in the right places at the right time for doctor's appointments and such, that are ruining a lot of my enjoyment of the place and consuming my time. I am actually recovering from the effects of a concussion after a car wreck that nearly killed me (And got me cited for not having proper inspection- Why? I was borrowing someone's car who didn't get it inspected and never told me.). And then dealing with that fallout and a relative pushing to get me to do things against my legal interest so he could save some money, he thought (incorrectly), but I knew wouldn't because I have a better understanding of how insurance works than he does. He's one of those annoying people who thinks he knows things that he doesn't and then tries to make everyone else conform to what he thinks he knows better than them when he ought to be listening to others. His first thought when I was laying in the grass beside a car wreck was that he couldn't leave a freaking youth basketball game to get a better cell signal and discuss the vehicle's lack of inspection with me or pick me up or whatever. His next thought was to hector me for days on doing what he wanted done as I was dealing with my own problems- most of which he had some hand in- and the aftereffects of a crash and trying to enjoy a getaway that took me a long time to plan. Thankfully, I have friends, and someone picked me up.

But I do like drinking beer with the dog (He doesn't drink, he gets to watch me drink ) on my temporary porch.

Anyway, I'm probably moving from my normal residence (No view of the ocean there! ), which is owned by the same family member I just can't stand to be that involved with financially anymore, and in a neighborhood that thousands of dollars in legal efforts on my part failed to rid of a problematical harassing jerk of a property owner in the area who has made it his life's mission to screw me with me and select other area residence. I hated the place to begin with when I moved in years ago, it was just what was on offer. I needed somewhere semi-decent to move to on my income, and that is what I could come up with thanks to my relative- Who sort of washed his hands of problems that effected our water supply and other things (He has standing to sue the troublemaker and won't- even though the guy has ruined the foundation on a building they each own part of with separate property deeds.), "fixed me up" with a car from a questionable source and failed literally the day after I personally put thousands of dollars into it and had it registered and inspected and titled personally (not the car from the accident referenced later) through no fault of my own, when I could have simply bought a used car from a dealer with some guarantees and less overhead- I knew my credit was going to take a dive and told him I should just go to a dealer and buy a used car on a payment plan while I could, and I spent weeks having to a do a taxi-like service at my own expense because he said no, I've got something for you, and then weeks afterwards again with the service because the car failed and he washed his hands of it and because he arranged the sale with his shady friend (Who his wife doesn't know he kept in contact with and now does- I am not pulling punches anymore) in a way that makes it legally impossible for me to sue either of them over it (I checked with a lawyer), I just have to deal with that situation.

I may keep my current home as a home base and just travel when I can. But I'm really through with that situation in my heart. I'm trying to see what I can maneuver to deal with it as little as possible. It's a really depressing life sapping place for me now. And it's time to start dealing with my relatives on my own terms if possible instead of letting them direct what I do using minimal financial help as a lever, and them costing me almost as much money as their help has assisted me. I do have a regular but low income stream, and it's time to figure out what I can do with it (Which is probably very little- hence why I accept stupid arrangements in the first place, but I'm fed up).

Honestly, the situation where I technically still live is just not stable- literally with the foundation of the building, but the whole neighborhood situation is a powderkeg in terms of interpersonal dynamics, and my relative may not even be able to or want to cut me a deal on where I am resident anywhere past a certain point, as income from other tenants is likely going to fall because the current ones are sick of living near the other landowner who he won't sue also, and other who might replace them could be scared off or not pay as well (and be people who he'll be less choosy about- and I'd hate to see what him being less choosy brings, I've lived by some "gems" from in the past in other locations) won't have a parking spot that my "neighbor" on his several year plan to tear apart his part of the building in what he calls a renovation and harass the locals, essentially stole and walled off, in addition to family issues. I am not going to get into the specifics of what this jerk I tried to mount a legal effort against me has done, but let's just cite two minor examples- nails on a neighbor's parking spot to bust their tires, staring creepily through their window at a breastfeeding woman. You get the gist, except he also asserts property rights that are in contrast to 50 years of tradition in that community, etc., etc., etc.. Apparently American law doesn't protect the little guy. Police didn't want to deal with it, lawyer just took my money, etc.. And does my relative thank me, a poor person with severe health issues, for spending thousands in part to defend *his* property and legal rights (Albeit to my own potential benefit also)? No.

And, you know what? I can't take it anymore. Time to wrap up my involvement there or just stay there a little bit of the time when I have to and collect my mail and stuff.

I am really, really unhappy with this whole situation.

 

[Fish and Bread]

And I'm not even addicted to anything.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Forget the sci fi. Just do an autobio!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

And I'm not even addicted to anything.

That might be an illusion we all have, if we don't reach rock bottom. The more insidious addictions such as:
-snacks
-TLT/CF internet forums
-rumination , replaying past events again and again
-"I'll do it my way, whatever the cost" thinking.
-"I'm not as bad as some people"
-"i'm pretty humble really"
-"I'm special. I'm not like those other people who don't have a clue"
-"if the world could just change to suit me,everything would be fine"

 

[Fish and Bread]

Forget the sci fi. Just do an autobio!

Well, after the likely concussion the other day, my autobiography might read a little something like this sounds:

I actually have had a moderately interesting life, though (Albeit not *quite* autobiography interesting ). Unfortunately, it's reminiscent of the reason "May you live in interesting times" is considered a curse rather than a blessing in China...

I don't know, I don't like complaining too much publicly because there are certainly people who have it much worse. Plus, there's an old proverb I just made up: "Don't ask for advice you don't want.". Popular in my head. So I try to stick to that.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

because there are certainly people who have it much worse.

sounds like you've got it worst on TLT anyway.
I'm way too soft. I just fear what God has in store for me for the rest of my life.

 

[Fish and Bread]

That might be an illusion we all have, if we don't reach rock bottom. The more insidious addictions such as:
-snacks
-TLT/CF internet forums
-rumination , replaying past events again and again
-"I'll do it my way, whatever the cost" thinking.
-"I'm not as bad as some people"
-"i'm pretty humble really"
-"I'm special. I'm not like those other people who don't have a clue"
-"if the world could just change to suit me,everything would be fine"

Those are some very astute observations, but aren't some of those just personality traits with a lot of people? I mean, if we take things too far, I could say we're all addicted to breathing, but that one is probably a healthy addiction. I think my doctor would probably agree that I could benefit from developing an addiction to green vegetables.

I'm going to probably have to cut down on the Internet emoticon use after my last post on this thread, though. That just looks horrible...

 

[Fish and Bread]

sounds like you've got it worst on TLT anyway.

That may be true.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

my last post on this thread, though. That just looks horrible...

and an addiction to status, how we are perceived by others instead of who we really are

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

re status
I've never reached a stage where I don't give a toss what my family think of me. I always have this fear of them thinking I am not coping well. We all like to think we are keeping our head above water, surviving well in the rat race. I can admit it on here because I don't think it matters really. I mean are we all going to have a meet up for real some day? We are just soul mates in the cyber world, if that.

 

[Tigger45]

re status
I've never reached a stage where I don't give a toss what my family think of me. I always have this fear of them thinking I am not coping well. We all like to think we are keeping our head above water, surviving well in the rat race. I can admit it on here because I don't think it matters really. I mean are we all going to have a meet up for real some day? We are just soul mates in the cyber world, if that.

You're singing my song bro

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

You're singing my song bro

Which makes me think that "the family" is actually a microcosm of society. Rivalries. Competition. Schisms. Left versus right. Each one thinking they have "the answer" to life. Ideally families are loving accepting, non-judgemental safe havens. in reality, they aint!