What is it that distances Russia from the West?

[Landon Caeli]

Go read about NATO .... it was originally formed in opposition to Russia.

The North Atlantic Alliance was founded in the aftermath of the Second World War. Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union.

I know about that, but those times were long, long over. Nobody had any inkling to wage any kind of war against Russia. We had befriended them since. And it could have been a thing of the past, left to history.

...But Russia rekindled the fire, by digging up dead bones.

 

[eleos1954]

Yeah, that's what sovereign nations get to do. They don't have to ask permission to form alliances. Neither did Latvia or Lithuania, for that matter.

It's Russian propaganda to say that NATO is inherently an aggressor. NATO was formed to defend western Europe against potential aggression by the Soviets. Defense is not aggression.

Russia considers NATO a threat to their sovereignty .... their attack on Ukraine (from their point of view) was/is defending their sovereignty. You and others may not agree with that ..... but it is Russia's perspective.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Why didn't Russia seek, itself, to become a member of NATO? Russia hasn't said a word about NATO before, Russia didn't even ask NATO to disassemble itself either. NATO was a derelict organization prior to this war, having almost all member-states not holding their weight in arms, and training. NATO was almost extinct!

...Now things are different. Now, NATO is going to rebuild itself stronger than it ever was, when it would have faded into history.

Russia is so foolish.

Yes, Russians have a tendency to be only marginally wise; pragmatism and legal instrumentalism (as opposed to incorporating the principle of "Rule of Law") have been the signature characteristics of their governmental and international praxis, all in addition to what @FireDragon76 has already laid out above.

Unfortunately, because of Russia's long history of autocratic thinking and a necessity to defend itself against invasion [being landlocked as it is], it has retained a kind of isolationist, backwoods rationale in how it views the nature of its own society and how to run it in relation to the rest of the world.

And those in Western Europe have thereby tended to see Russia as a kind of 'third wheel' where politics are concerned. But this is nothing new. It's been that way there for centuries.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Russia viewed/views Ukraine as a threat because Ukraine was taking serious steps to join NATO

The North Atlantic Alliance was founded in the aftermath of the Second World War. Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet UnUnion.

NATO was a dead, meaningless organization prior to invading Ukraine.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yes, Russians have a tendency to be only marginally wise; pragmatism and legal instrumentalism (as opposed to incorporating the principle of "Rule of Law") have been the signature characteristics of their governmental and international praxis, all in addition to what @FireDragon76 has already laid out above.

Unfortunately, because of Russia's long history of autocratic thinking and a necessity to defend itself against invasion [being landlocked as it is], it has retained a kind of isolationist, backwoods rationale in how it views the nature of its own society and how to run it in relation to the rest of the world.

And those in Western Europe have thereby tended to see Russia as a kind of 'third wheel' where politics are concerned. But this is nothing new. It's been that way there for centuries.

To me now, Russia and the Russians are on par with Afghanistan, and the Afghani's. They're all third world people who don't deserve anymore attention or favors.

They're the same people. Related even.

 

[Love365]

Remember that Monty Python were they keep offering people SPAM.

Good day Sir,
Can I interest you in some European Union seats for Russia?

Maybe just think about the idea?

 

[eleos1954]

NATO was a dead, meaningless organization prior to invading Ukraine.

I would encourage you to go read about NATO ..... has been and is alive and well

Major NATO Military Interventions

 

[2PhiloVoid]

To me now, Russia and the Russians are on par with Afghanistan, and the Afghani's. They're all third world people who don't deserve anymore attention or favors.

They're the same people. Related even.

Just remember that some of those same Russians know very well that their society is a mess. As a brother in Christ, I'd suggest to you that we try not to sterotype "russians" in a general way, even if and when your assessment may be somewhat correct and apply to a large number of folks there.

They, in their own way, also have to deal with the devil (and I'm talking about within Russia, not outside of it).

 

[Desk trauma]

Remember that Monty Python were they keep offering people SPAM.

Good day Sir,
Can I interest you in some European Union seats for Russia?

Maybe just think about the idea?

No.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes, Russians have a tendency to be only marginally wise; pragmatism and legal instrumentalism (as opposed to incorporating the principle of "Rule of Law") have been the signature characteristics of their governmental and international praxis, all in addition to what @FireDragon76 has already laid out above.

Unfortunately, because of Russia's long history of autocratic thinking and a necessity to defend itself against invasion [being landlocked as it is], it has retained a kind of isolationist, backwoods rationale in how it views the nature of its own society and how to run it in relation to the rest of the world.

And those in Western Europe have thereby tended to see Russia as a kind of 'third wheel' where politics are concerned. But this is nothing new. It's been that way there for centuries.

Russia reminds me of your typical Continuing Anglican denomination. They have found the one, right way to do everything, even though there's nothing really distinctive about any particular thing they do, others find them difficult, enigmatic, and outnumber them one hundred to one, and it's oblivious to historical context.

To me now, Russia and the Russians are on par with Afghanistan, and the Afghani's. They're all third world people who don't deserve anymore attention or favors.

They're the same people. Related even.

Afghans are mostly Indo-Iranians, not Turkic. And Afghanistan is alot more dysfunctional than Russia and has a harsher geography. Russia is also a society of contradictions far more than Afghanistan. While it's dysfunctional, it's also capable of occasional greatness that makes the rest of the world take pause, despite it's dysfunction, and I think that is part of what actually drives the current Kremlin mythology, because it's interpreted as some kind of mystical charism, rather than simply being a black swan event. Russia has a long tradition of the "Holy Fool"; St. Basil's Cathedral is actually named after Basel the Blessed, who was a "Fool for Christ": Basil Fool for Christ - Wikipedia

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

...So my question becomes, *why* is Russia so hostile toward the West?

Russia generally is not. But the West is hostile to Russia,

So what is it, exactly, that they feel they need to protect themselves from?

The United States, of course,

Another dirty secret... the abortion rates in Eastern Europe and Russia are quite high, with a large majority of pregnancies ending in abortion.

That hasn't been true for a while now...

Notice the decline becomes steeper in 2000, after Putin became president.

Many people in Russia are busy trying to survive and deal with a world that always feels out of control, and they deal with frequent vices such as drinking, smoking, drug use, and violence being endemic.

That's been getting better too...

...all considering the weak, and incompetent alcoholic that was in charge of the Kremlin previously. Russia's still got plenty of social problems, to be sure, but try finding one that wasn't worse under Yeltsin.

Yeah, that's what sovereign nations get to do.

Not when it threatens the security of their neighbors. The Ukrainians have found that out the hard way...

 

[FireDragon76]

Russia generally is not. But the West is hostile to Russia,

The United States, of course,

That hasn't been true for a while now...

Notice the decline becomes steeper in 2000, after Putin became president.

These say otherwise:

70% of pregnancies end in abortions in Russia - expert

Majority of pregnancies in Russia are consciously aborted, head of the movement Women for Life Natalya Moskvitina says.

www.pravmir.com

Not when it threatens the security of their neighbors. The Ukrainians have found that out the hard way...

Why should Russia's perceived security interests trump the sovereignty of Ukraine? That's not how a rules-based international order works.

 

[Love365]

If you want someone to support a company,
it would help if they own stock in that company.

If you want Russia to support the European Union,
you need to give them seats in European Parliament.

If you want Russia to stop using hard power,
you need to give them soft power.

 

[Landon Caeli]

The United States, of course,

Why?

Why do they need to "protect" themselves from the United States? What are we supposedly going to do to them?

 

[Landon Caeli]

@SoldierOfTheKing, not only is it fiction that a nuclear armed Russia needs to "protect" itself from the United States, but it makes even less sense that a humongous nation like Russia needs to take over *more* land in order to protect itself.

...Try to explain this in a way that reasonable, intelligent people can understand.

Please start by explaining why the United States wants to take-over Russia militarily, first of all, and who is calling for this military action.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So Russia has been condemning the West in it's state run propaganda machine apparently, where now, Russian civilians are saying they're ready to bomb London or Paris, in an allout battle against the West. Russia has also said that it is prepared to push back the borders of Poland.

...So my question becomes, *why* is Russia so hostile toward the West? Do they not consider themselves fellow Europeans? Can they not see that we all share the same religions, and culture? They have the same malls that we do, the same cars, and the same logic.

So what is it, exactly, that they feel they need to protect themselves from? Are they opposed to immigration, like a kind of racism? I don't think that's it. I don't think it's the LGBTQ dilemma - there's no need for an authoritarian regime to worry about that - they can easily outlaw it.

So what on earth are they doing..? Why would they want to hate their own kin (fellow Europeans)? What are they "protecting" themselves from?

Europe, still has an "old world" paradigm .. but Russia's paradigm is older, and has a different history.

North America has departed from the old world paradigm of thinking .. and was in the process of bull dozing their culture everywhere.

Russia is pushing back.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Europe, still has an "old world" paradigm .. but Russia's paradigm is older, and has a different history.

North America has departed from the old world paradigm of thinking .. and was in the process of bull dozing their culture everywhere.

Russia is pushing back.

That's not making sense, when Russians are calling for the bombing of Paris and London.

The United States Is the spreading out of real Europe. We were founded on Dutch, English, French and more recently German principles, and as such, the Dutch, English, French and Germans are all standing against the questionable Tater-Russians when they claim the United States' culture is somehow illegitimate.

There's nothing foreign about the United States. It's the Tater-Russians who are actually the foreigners. They're more similar to Turks, in that they are closer to the Ottomans than they are anything European.

It's Russian/Ottoman culture that is the problem.

 

[Desk trauma]

If you want Russia to stop using hard power,
you need to give them soft power.

No, we do not.

 

[Love365]

No, we do not.

We could give them seats in European Parliament.

 

[Desk trauma]

We could give them seats in European Parliament.

No.