What is it that distances Russia from the West?

[Landon Caeli]

So Russia has been condemning the West in it's state run propaganda machine apparently, where now, Russian civilians are saying they're ready to bomb London or Paris, in an allout battle against the West. Russia has also said that it is prepared to push back the borders of Poland.

...So my question becomes, *why* is Russia so hostile toward the West? Do they not consider themselves fellow Europeans? Can they not see that we all share the same religions, and culture? They have the same malls that we do, the same cars, and the same logic.

So what is it, exactly, that they feel they need to protect themselves from? Are they opposed to immigration, like a kind of racism? I don't think that's it. I don't think it's the LGBTQ dilemma - there's no need for an authoritarian regime to worry about that - they can easily outlaw it.

So what on earth are they doing..? Why would they want to hate their own kin (fellow Europeans)? What are they "protecting" themselves from?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why would they not instead bond with the West, and be our brothers and sisters? After all, they seem so similar to us Westerners, with high-end shopping malls, and what we would consider a "normal" life:

Khodynskiy Bul'var, 4, Moscow, Russia, 125167

...I'm confused.

 

[Landon Caeli]

...Why do we have to do things the hard way? Does anyone know what they presume the benefits as being? Perhaps there's some ideology we can uncover, and better understand?

is there' something we aren't seeing, that might be 'above our heads'..? Because currently, the only thing I can come up with is that Russia is being governed by overgrown children, playing tit-for-tat games with a zero-sum mentality.

Truly it can't be that simple. Can it?

 

[FireDragon76]

1) Mostly, it's down to wealthy oligarchs that run the country for their own interest, and benefit from the propaganda, which ties into point 2

2) Russia has a current national mythology that they aren't really European, that they are "Eurasian". This has some truth in history as Moscow emerged as a powerful kingdom within the Mongol Empire and the Tatar Yoke (Tatars were turkic peoples who were part of the Mongol empire, and they dominated Moscow for most of its early history), and some of the artistic and linguistic features of traditional Russian culture reflect that. Moscow was the regional "muscle" against other Slavic peoples within the Mongol's empire. Russians cities like Kazan were original Tatar, and a large percentage of Russians have some Tatar ancestry themselves.

Even their religion isn't the same. The dominant religion, Russian Orthodoxy, traditionally wouldn't consider Catholics or Protestants to share the same religion. Orthodox theology is conceived of as intuitive and mystical, vs. the rationalism of western Christianity. After the fall of Constantinople, they considered Moscow the "Third Rome", and looked at western countries as barbaric, and later, hedonistic and sensualist.

The other official religions of Russia are Sunni Islam and Tantric Buddhism or Lamaism, neither of which are thought of as "European".

3) You can find shopping malls all over the world now, it has little to do with cultural particulars.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Interesting!

So Russians are generally more ethnically similar to Afghani's and Turks, than they are Western Europeans. And they know this, and view themselves this way.

Regions with significant Tater populations:

 

[Landon Caeli]

That actually explains a lot.

 

[Love365]

Russia is a Christian country.
They celebrate Christmas and Easter every year.

Russia is mostly European.
Moscow and St Petersburg are in Europe.
77 percent of Russia’s population is on the European side of Russia.

Russia has no seats in European Parliament.
When Russia trades with the rest of Europe they are taxed.
That is Taxation without Representation.

Russia should have been given seats in 1993.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

Interesting to note:
Many people in Russia miss..the Soviet Union era/days.
---
I was in Russia..years ago.
- & Estonia, Latvia..(former USSR countries).
- Short trip.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Russia is a Christian country.
They celebrate Christmas and Easter every year.

Russia is mostly European.
Moscow and St Petersburg are in Europe.
77 percent of Russia’s population is on the European side of Russia.

Russia has no seats in European Parliament.
When Russia trades with the rest of Europe they are taxed.
That is Taxation without Representation.

Russia should have been given seats in 1993.

Don't be fooled. Just 10 years ago, Russia was predominantly atheist, and soon enough, it will be predominantly Islamic, just like in Afghanistan and Turkey.

‘Muslims to make up 30% of Russia’s population by 2034’

Number of Muslims in the country has been increasing every day, says Russia’s grant mufti - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[Love365]

Many Christians are afraid to visit Russia,
learn the Russian language, or get married to a Russian.

 

[FireDragon76]

Don't be fooled. Just 10 years ago, Russia was predominantly atheist, and soon enough, it will be predominantly Islamic, just like in Afghanistan and Turkey.

‘Muslims to make up 30% of Russia’s population by 2034’

Number of Muslims in the country has been increasing every day, says Russia’s grant mufti - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Another dirty secret... the abortion rates in Eastern Europe and Russia are quite high, with a large majority of pregnancies ending in abortion. Birth rates are low.

Your average Russian Orthodox in Russia now days is defined more by their nationalism than their Christianity. Often what passes for religion among the laity is shallow, by western standards, and not infrequently superstitious. They sometimes look at Christianity as little more than access to magical power, like the Holy Grail (this is Putin's basic mindset in fact, and why he views Ukraine as a kind of holy war to seize cities such as Kherson, which are significant in the history of the Eastern Slav peoples, as it was the place that Vladimir I was baptized).

Many people in Russia are busy trying to survive and deal with a world that always feels out of control, and they deal with frequent vices such as drinking, smoking, drug use, and violence being endemic. Russia has a very high murder rate. So it's easy for Putin to scapegoat the West and minorities he blames on the West (such as gays), because people there are desperate, afraid, and gullible. They also remember the horrors of the 1990's, when the world treated Russia as a firesale under Yeltsin, and people had to watch their daughters sell themselves into prostutition and life expectancy plunged into the 50's. So there is understandable anger at the neoliberal world order.

Despite all the bravado from the Kremlin, Russia is not a healthy society. It's always been somewhat dysfunctional, and only held together by raw power. Moscow may be a "New Rome", but it's very far from the "New Jerusalem".

 

[Landon Caeli]

Another dirty secret... the abortion rates in Eastern Europe and Russia are quite high, with a large majority of pregnancies ending in abortion. Birth rates are low.

Your average Russian Orthodox in Russia now days is defined more by their nationalism than their Christianity. Often what passes for religion among the laity is shallow, by western standards, and not infrequently superstitious. They sometimes look at Christianity as little more than access to magical power, like the Holy Grail (this is Putin's basic mindset in fact, and why he views Ukraine as a kind of holy war to seize cities such as Kherson, which are significant in the history of the Eastern Slav peoples, as it was the place that Vladimir I was baptized).

Many people in Russia are busy trying to survive and deal with a world that always feels out of control, and they deal with frequent vices such as drinking, smoking, drug use, and violence being endemic. Russia has a very high murder rate. So it's easy for Putin to scapegoat the West and minorities he blames on the West (such as gays), because people there are desperate, afraid, and gullible. They also remember the horrors of the 1990's, when the world treated Russia as a firesale under Yeltsin, and people had to watch their daughters sell themselves into prostutition and life expectancy plunged into the 50's. So there is understandable anger at the neoliberal world order.

Despite all the bravado from the Kremlin, Russia is not a healthy society. It's always been somewhat dysfunctional, and only held together by raw power. Moscow may be a "New Rome", but it's very far from the "New Jerusalem".

What gets me is the rampant corruption among the populace. As if honesty isn't 'good enough', there seems to be this desire to undermine others, and throw them under the bus.

...This isn't a typical Christian or European behavior that I'm familiar with. Nobody does that in say Sweden for example. Those people seem "helpful" and more "honest". With Russia we see people making things "harder" on others, and much "deceit".

They really *don't* share the same type of logic as western Europeans.

 

[eleos1954]

So Russia has been condemning the West in it's state run propaganda machine apparently, where now, Russian civilians are saying they're ready to bomb London or Paris, in an allout battle against the West. Russia has also said that it is prepared to push back the borders of Poland.

...So my question becomes, *why* is Russia so hostile toward the West? Do they not consider themselves fellow Europeans? Can they not see that we all share the same religions, and culture? They have the same malls that we do, the same cars, and the same logic.

So what is it, exactly, that they feel they need to protect themselves from? Are they opposed to immigration, like a kind of racism? I don't think that's it. I don't think it's the LGBTQ dilemma - there's no need for an authoritarian regime to worry about that - they can easily outlaw it.

So what on earth are they doing..? Why would they want to hate their own kin (fellow Europeans)? What are they "protecting" themselves from?

It's not much about relegion ..... it's about NATO ..... as far as Ukraine goes ..... all though they were not officially a NATO member yet ..... members of NATO are lending all kinds of support (less boots on the ground as far as we know) It is NATO that causes all these proxy wars.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It's not much about relegion ..... it's about NATO ..... as far as Ukraine goes ..... all though they were not officially a NATO member yet ..... members of NATO are lending all kinds of support (less boots on the ground as far as we know) It is NATO that causes all these proxy wars.

Why didn't Russia seek, itself, to become a member of NATO? Russia hasn't said a word about NATO before, Russia didn't even ask NATO to disassemble itself either. NATO was a derelict organization prior to this war, having almost all member-states not holding their weight in arms, and training. NATO was almost extinct!

...Now things are different. Now, NATO is going to rebuild itself stronger than it ever was, when it would have faded into history.

Russia is so foolish.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's not much about relegion ..... it's about NATO ..... as far as Ukraine goes ..... all though they were not officially a NATO member yet ..... members of NATO are lending all kinds of support (less boots on the ground as far as we know) It is NATO that causes all these proxy wars.

It's not about NATO, it's about Ukraine. Ukraine has been abused for years under the Russian and Soviet system, and finally they were given their independence from the Soviet Union in the 1990's. The people are tired of being told what their foreign policy should be, especially dictated by their former oppressors at the point of a gun.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why didn't Russia seek, itself, to become a member of NATO? Russia hasn't said a word about NATO before, Russia didn't even ask NATO to disassemble itself either. NATO was a derelict organization prior to this war, having almost all member-states not holding their weight in arms, and training. NATO was almost extinct!

...Now things are different. Now, NATO is going to rebuild itself stronger than it ever was, when it would have faded into history.

Russia is so foolish.

Russia did, but it was a bad faith effort: they weren't willing to do the things necessary to be a NATO member. Russia believes they are exceptional, and that the rest of the world should conform to them, not the other way around.

Like America, Russia believes it is an exceptional country. That's the root of alot of the conflict. Russia is still living with the notion that the world shouldn't be globalized along a rules-based order, but that great powers should be able to bully their neighbors according to their own interests. And that means treating Eastern Europe as vassals or conquered peoples, as it did historically.

 

[eleos1954]

Why didn't Russia seek, itself, to become a member of NATO? Russia hasn't said a word about NATO before, Russia didn't even ask NATO to disassemble itself either. NATO was a derelict organization prior to this war, having almost all member-states not holding their weight in arms, and training. NATO was almost extinct!

...Now things are different. Now, NATO is going to rebuild itself stronger than it ever was, when it would have faded into history.

Russia is so foolish.

Go read about NATO .... it was originally formed in opposition to Russia.

The North Atlantic Alliance was founded in the aftermath of the Second World War. Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union.

 

[eleos1954]

It's not about NATO, it's about Ukraine. Ukraine has been abused for years under the Russian and Soviet system, and finally they were given their independence from the Soviet Union in the 1990's. The people are tired of being told what their foreign policy should be, especially dictated by their former oppressors at the point of a gun.

Russia viewed/views Ukraine as a threat because Ukraine was taking serious steps to join NATO

The North Atlantic Alliance was founded in the aftermath of the Second World War. Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union.

 

[Lukaris]

The west has been destabilizing Ukraine for years and Putin has had issues with that. He even had legitimate concerns on that. What is confusing is that he has committed aggression against Zelensky. Zelensky seemed genuinely neutral and why he was targeted, I have no idea. I also believe Putin is a war criminal and Ukraine has been unjustifiably treated.

 

[FireDragon76]

Russia viewed/views Ukraine as a threat because Ukraine was taking serious steps to join NATO

Yeah, that's what sovereign nations get to do. They don't have to ask permission to form alliances. Neither did Latvia or Lithuania, for that matter.

It's Russian propaganda to say that NATO is inherently an aggressor. NATO was formed to defend western Europe against potential aggression by the Soviets. Defense is not aggression.