what is it that catholics do wrong?

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Wolf_Says

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Honestly....why do I do this to myself? /sigh

@Marvin Knox

Here is a question, considering you are ranting so much about how bad us Catholics are.

What, to you, do us Catholics actually believe? Lets start there. Because it is clear to me by your rantings that you have taken every anti-Catholic sermon by your pastors and bible-study leaders and swallowed them whole, without doing any fact checking.

So, here is my questions, and we can move on from there:

What do we Catholics believe, and why is it wrong?

Thanks.
 
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Wolf_Says

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BELIEVING in THE doctrinal error of the RCC does not send a spirit to the "lake of fire". UN-belief in Jesus as savior from and substitution for sin does.


Um...what is with the random CAPITAL words in your posts?

And, what doctrinal error is it that you are talking about?

Please provide to me the doctrine, and then please explain to me why you find it to be in error.

Maybe with actual open conversation, instead of flaming and attacking Catholics, you would learn what it is we actually believe, our reasoning for said belief, and that maybe you would find that we aren't "as far gone left field" as you seem to think.

A closed mind though, will get you absolutely nowhere and will only get you an eyeroll from Catholics here who are honestly tired of the constant barrage of attacks and charges. And when we try and explain our beliefs and doctrines, it feels as though we are talking to a brick wall.
 
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someone dare to respond this simplified question...
Do the catholics go to hell?
Whether a person is saved or not is a judgement that belongs to Christ alone.

This is the thing we are told not to judge. If we condemn others as beyond God's grace, do we want to invite the same measure upon ourselves?
 
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Wolf_Says

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someone dare to respond this simplified question...
Do the catholics go to hell?

Do lutherans go to hell?
Do orthodox go to hell?
Do baptists go to hell?
Do pentecostals go to hell?
Do non-denominationals go to hell?
Do (insert any denomination here) go to hell?

It's the same questions with the same answer. None living know for certain, as it is up to God who enters Heaven and who goes to hell. Simple as that.

And yes, we are your brothers and sisters in Christ, like it or not.
 
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Wolf_Says

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My "harsh" assessment of those who do not hold the exact doctrine I understand does not stem from an unfairly critical spirit. It stems from a Godly anger at those who shut up the Kingdom of God to those less powerful or educated than they are.


Well, time to call your bluff.

Godly anger? Really? Can you prove this to us?

You believe that your interpretation of scripture is the full truth, and any who disagree with you are wrong. That is not Godly anger, it is pride.

Have you openly and honestly had a discussion with a Catholic about their beliefs? If so, did you actually listen instead of immediately thinking of your counter argument? Reading your posts on here, my guess is no.

I suggest you give it a try. Find a Catholic who has a firm grip on their faith, and start asking questions. As a non-Catholic, how can you tell a Catholic what Catholics believe? You can't, but you can find out what Catholics believe by asking a Catholic.

Listen, and just listen. if you still have questions, ask them. But just going right into thinking of your next "comeback" or next "counter statement", your not actually listening to their answer, your listening to what you WANT to hear.

Granted, this is an issue with everybody, including myself. But as a Catholic, I can't tell an Anglican what Anglican's believe, but I can ask an Anglican what they believe, and just listen. That way, I grow in knowledge, and then have a better understanding of Anglicans. I don't have to agree, or fully understand, but listening has never done any harm in these instances.
 
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Marvin Knox

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Honestly....why do I do this to myself? /sigh
@Marvin Knox
Here is a question, considering you are ranting so much about how bad us Catholics are.
What, to you, do us Catholics actually believe? Lets start there. Because it is clear to me by your rantings that you have taken every anti-Catholic sermon by your pastors and bible-study leaders and swallowed them whole, without doing any fact checking.
So, here is my questions, and we can move on from there:
What do we Catholics believe, and why is it wrong?
Thanks.
I don't believe I've ever heard an anti Catholic sermon. I've mostly read what you believe from your own publications and gone from there.

No rants at all from me just direct answers to those who have questions about my original post. It follows here:
They join the Roman Catholic church rather than a good Protestant church.
They go to church quite regularly.

The require celibacy for their clergy almost guaranteeing sexual abuse of little boys.
There boy's choirs make some beautiful music.

They believe in transubstantiation.
They take communion regularly.
 
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Wolf_Says

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As I've already demonstrated, Satan has done his share of miracles also and people continue to be deceived by them. We agree to disagree but don't claim that you were never warned.

Honestly, you have yet to demonstrate anything, except in your mind.

Mary is NOT the one performing the miracles, it is God. These miracles have been documented, as have the apparitions, and studied.

Simply because you dont want to agree with it, does not make these miracles the work of somebody else.

From what I have read, the issue here is, whether you want to believe it or not, you place God into a box of what He can and cannot do, and that Box is the contents of the Bible. This, by all means, is arrogance.

God, being all powerful, can do anything that He wishes, and the miracles and the approved apparitions of Mary seem to be a part of this. He is not confined to your box, you do not control God.

As you are the one making the claim, show me proof that it is NOT God performing the miracles at Lourdes, and it was NOT Mary, Mother of Jesus, but instead satan, who has appeared to hundreds of people in the apparitions approved and recognized by the Catholic Church.

I shall wait for the proof.
 
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Wolf_Says

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No rants at all from me just direct answers to those who have questions about my original post. It follows here:

Yes, I know where it started from, but that is not what I was referring too.

The Mass is blasphemous, you despise the RCC in "Godly anger", and other accusations even bringing in Mother Theresa to try and prove your "point".

One, celibacy is not forced on anybody. Becoming a priest is a choice, and with that choice you understand the agreements that you are making. You are not forced into being a priest. Also, priest celibacy is not a dogma of the Catholic Church, as it is only really present in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, and there are married priests who have converted to the faith from Orthodoxy, Anglican, or Episcopalian.

Why is it an issue for one to join the Catholic Church? Explain to me how exactly that is a bad thing, instead of a "good protestant church".

And what is the issue with the Transubstantiation?
 
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Marvin Knox

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Well, time to call your bluff.
Godly anger? Really? Can you prove this to us?
You believe that your interpretation of scripture is the full truth, and any who disagree with you are wrong. That is not Godly anger, it is pride.
Have you openly and honestly had a discussion with a Catholic about their beliefs? If so, did you actually listen instead of immediately thinking of your counter argument? Reading your posts on here, my guess is no.
I suggest you give it a try. Find a Catholic who has a firm grip on their faith, and start asking questions. As a non-Catholic, how can you tell a Catholic what Catholics believe? You can't, but you can find out what Catholics believe by asking a Catholic.
Listen, and just listen. if you still have questions, ask them. But just going right into thinking of your next "comeback" or next "counter statement", your not actually listening to their answer, your listening to what you WANT to hear.
Granted, this is an issue with everybody, including myself. But as a Catholic, I can't tell an Anglican what Anglican's believe, but I can ask an Anglican what they believe, and just listen. That way, I grow in knowledge, and then have a better understanding of Anglicans. I don't have to agree, or fully understand, but listening has never done any harm in these instances.
No bluff from me - just straight talk.

How does one "prove" Godly anger. That makes no sense.

If you are talking about why I am angered however, that's easy. It's because the Roman cult preaches a gospel based on participation in their particular special organization and participation in their rites as you practice them in order to achieve salvation.

Your guess about my dialogs with Catholics would be wrong. I have had many discussions with Catholics and I know full well what they believe and practice and it is in many cases against what the scriptures teach.

Which particular things do you believe I have wrong about Catholic dogma?
 
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Marvin Knox

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The Mass is blasphemous, you despise the RCC in "Godly anger", and other accusations even bringing in Mother Theresa to try and prove your "point".
As I have explained, the Mass is blasphemous not because one believes that there is some sort of "mystical" connection with God through communion. It is blasphemous because the bread and wine are changed by an unauthorized priesthood in order to provide salvation to the masses at their hands.

Mother Theresa's horrible anguish of soul is the perfect example of what this kind of teaching brings to a practicing Catholic - and please don't tell me that she needed to talk to real Catholics about their beliefs because she had it wrong.

She had it exactly right - and that was her problem.
One, celibacy is not forced on anybody. Becoming a priest is a choice, and with that choice you understand the agreements that you are making. You are not forced into being a priest.
I clearly said that Roman Catholic dogma requires celibacy for their priests. I did not in any way indicate that the priesthood was forced on anyone or that was not entered into by choice.
Why is it an issue for one to join the Catholic Church? Explain to me how exactly that is a bad thing, instead of a "good protestant church".
Because it opens you and your children up to the unscriptural practices of the Roman church which have kept so many millions in bondage throughout the church age.
And what is the issue with the Transubstantiation?
The issue with transubstantiation in general is that it is not biblical. The issue with transubstantiation as taught and practiced in the Roman church as opposed to some others is that it is achieved prior to the people taking the elements and at the behest of a special unauthorized priesthood who then administer it to the uninitiated.

Look - you disagree with me. That's fine. But it isn't because I don't know what I am talking about as you say is the case.
 
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Wolf_Says

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No bluff from me - just straight talk.

How does one "prove" Godly anger. That makes no sense.

If you are talking about why I am angered however, that's easy. It's because the Roman cult preaches a gospel based on participation in their particular special organization and participation in their rites as you practice them in order to achieve salvation.

Your guess about my dialogs with Catholics would be wrong. I have had many discussions with Catholics and I know full well what they believe and practice and it is in many cases against what the scriptures teach.

Which particular things do you believe I have wrong about Catholic dogma?

What do you have wrong? For starters, Practically this entire post.

Salvation is a process, as it is stated in the Bible by Paul himself (we have been saved, we are saved, and we will be saved). It is NOT a one and done type deal. Justification, is different, but Salvation is not. Once you are born again, as according to Jesus, with "water and spirit", that is only the beginning.

As it is stated in the Bible, we are saved by works and not faith alone. We are judged by Jesus by our works as shown in the parable of the sheep and the goats. The Catholic Church preaches the Gospel, the WHOLE Gospel, easy and hard. What I have heard all too often in protestant churches is a gospel of easiness, and feel-goods, but that hardly represents the truth of the Gospel.

Also, stop calling Catholicism a cult. It is honestly just laughable, if you are trying to be offensive. Catholicism is not only the largest Christian group on earth, but she is also the original Christian Church. Everything that your church teaches, believes, and the Bible itself is BECAUSE of the Catholic Church.

Your dismissal of the Shroud of Turin, of the real and studied Eucharistic Miracles, and of the documented and studied apparitions of Mary and the miracles that have followed, shows to me your absolute disdane for anything that could prove your stance wrong.

Name me 1 thing that we practice or believe that blatantly goes AGAINST Scripture, and then we shall have a discussion.
 
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HARK!

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Rather than asking what it is that X-group does wrong (or even right) ... especially when it is y-group answering the opinion ...

I always found it MUCH more productive to ask x-group directly what they did, and why they did it. I might not ultimately agree, but I sure learned a lot more.

It's never a good idea to get your information about any group from those who aren't part of the group, or at least not exclusively from those sources.

What you said might not be found directly supported in scripture; but if one understands the spirit of the scripture concerning gossip, slander, and the handling of your brother who sins against you. and stirring up strife; your statements are clearly founded.

Glory to YHWH!
 
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Wolf_Says

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Fun times,

As I have explained, the Mass is blasphemous not because one believes that there is some sort of "mystical" connection with God through communion. It is blasphemous because the bread and wine are changed by an unauthorized priesthood in order to provide salvation to the masses at their hands.

Unauthorized presthood? Care to explain? You do realize that this "unauthorized priesthood" is in fact an unbroken chain of transfer of authority and responsibility going back all the way to the Apostles? If they are unauthorized, then who is authorized?

Receiving the Eucharist is, has been, and always will be the focus of the mass. To receive Jesus, Body Blood Soul and Divinity, as instituted

by Jesus himself at the Last Supper. All the Martyrs of the early Church were Catholic, and they died for their firm and unwavering belief in the Eucharist.


Mother Theresa's horrible anguish of soul is the perfect example of what this kind of teaching brings to a practicing Catholic - and pleas don't tell me that she need to talk to real Catholics about their beliefs because she had it wrong.

I think I would be a complete idiot to believe that Mother Theresa had it wrong. Study any of the Saints, any person that becomes extremely close to God. They all carry heavy, heavy crosses. They all experience doubt, self doubt, and inner darkness. The closer we get towards God, the harder life becomes, not easier. Jesus, the Son of the Father, was scourged and nailed to a cross. If that is anything to go by, it only signifies how holy and closer to God she was.

However, none of this shows any error in regards towards the teachings and beliefs of the Catholic Church. You are reaching for self-invented proof here.

I clearly said that Roman Catholic dogma requires celibacy for their priests. I did not in any way indicate that the priesthood was forced on anyone or that not was not entered into by choice.

And I clearly showed you that you were wrong, that celibacy for priests is for the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, and that it can change. Celibacy for priests is actually not dogma, as it is not binding for salvation. It is a standard for priests to help them better focus on God and their Catholic community. I also stated that there are plenty of married priests in eastern Catholicism, or married priests who converted to the faith from a religion that allows married priests such as Orthodoxy, Anglican, or Episcopalian.

You reach to show that, the Catholic Church having priests stay celibate, is a mark of a false church as stated in the Bible, tells me that you do believe it is forced, and not a conscious choice with full understanding of the agreements and standards held with that choice. If a church forbids sex, or forces celibacy, then it is wrong. The Church forces nobody to celibacy, as it is entirely voluntary.

Because it opens you and your children up to the unscriptural practices of the Roman church which have kept so many millions in bondage through the church age.

How has anything the Catholic Church done kept "millions in bondage"? Are you refering to the dark ages? Do you not know that roughly 90% of the population was illiterate? As in they could not read? Do you also know that, prior to the printing press, it took over a year to make a single copy of the Bible, and that the cost of that book cost more than many made in their entire lifetime?

The Church never hid the scriptures. These Bible, the Sacred Scriptures, were so valuable that they HAD to be chained down, not to prevent the lay from the scriptures, but to prevent them from being stolen by thieves. If you could read, and wished to read the Bible, you ALWAYS knew where to go; to the Church.

Did you also know that, against popular opinion, it was actually the Catholic Church who published the first Bible via printing press, and NOT Martin Luther? Martin Luther did not print his Bible until the 1500s, where as the Gutenberg Bible was printed in the 1450s, before Luther was even born.

The issue with transubstantiation in general is that it is not biblical.
Things-Jesus-never-said.jpg
 
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Philip_B

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I have explained, the Mass is blasphemous
Hence the great Anglican maxim:

His was the word that spake it
and what his word does make it
I do believe and take it.​

Now with the Elizabethan settlement in hand, perhaps we can proceed with some more civility.
 
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Basil the Great

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Whether a person is saved or not is a judgement that belongs to Christ alone.

This is the thing we are told not to judge. If we condemn others as beyond God's grace, do we want to invite the same measure upon ourselves?
Quite possibly the best post that I have seen here in several weeks. How very true.
 
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Philip_B

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As my late grandmother used to tell me, "We are all going to the same place". I knew her very well and she was referring to Christians in good graces with God going to Heaven, be they Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.
There is more that unites us than tears us apart!
 
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Basil the Great

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What do you have wrong? For starters, Practically this entire post.

Salvation is a process, as it is stated in the Bible by Paul himself (we have been saved, we are saved, and we will be saved). It is NOT a one and done type deal. Justification, is different, but Salvation is not. Once you are born again, as according to Jesus, with "water and spirit", that is only the beginning.

As it is stated in the Bible, we are saved by works and not faith alone. We are judged by Jesus by our works as shown in the parable of the sheep and the goats. The Catholic Church preaches the Gospel, the WHOLE Gospel, easy and hard. What I have heard all too often in protestant churches is a gospel of easiness, and feel-goods, but that hardly represents the truth of the Gospel.

Also, stop calling Catholicism a cult. It is honestly just laughable, if you are trying to be offensive. Catholicism is not only the largest Christian group on earth, but she is also the original Christian Church. Everything that your church teaches, believes, and the Bible itself is BECAUSE of the Catholic Church.

Your dismissal of the Shroud of Turin, of the real and studied Eucharistic Miracles, and of the documented and studied apparitions of Mary and the miracles that have followed, shows to me your absolute disdane for anything that could prove your stance wrong.

Name me 1 thing that we practice or believe that blatantly goes AGAINST Scripture, and then we shall have a discussion.
I think it wise for all of us to keep an open mind on the shroud of Turin. It is possible that the carbon dating tests were flawed.
 
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Oldmantook

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Honestly, you have yet to demonstrate anything, except in your mind.

Mary is NOT the one performing the miracles, it is God. These miracles have been documented, as have the apparitions, and studied.

Simply because you dont want to agree with it, does not make these miracles the work of somebody else.

From what I have read, the issue here is, whether you want to believe it or not, you place God into a box of what He can and cannot do, and that Box is the contents of the Bible. This, by all means, is arrogance.

God, being all powerful, can do anything that He wishes, and the miracles and the approved apparitions of Mary seem to be a part of this. He is not confined to your box, you do not control God.

As you are the one making the claim, show me proof that it is NOT God performing the miracles at Lourdes, and it was NOT Mary, Mother of Jesus, but instead satan, who has appeared to hundreds of people in the apparitions approved and recognized by the Catholic Church.

I shall wait for the proof.
Why don't you simply point out to me anywhere in all of the OT or NT where God used the apparition of a dead person to do a miracles? You won't find it! In fact - God forbids communication with the dead.
Deut. 18:9-12
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.
God stated that it is SIN to communicate with the dead so why would God use a dead Mary or apparition of her to communicate with his church? God would be guilty of violating his own command. Thus it is an abomination to believe as you do as you have been deceived by Satan.
 
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Wolf_Says

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Why don't you simply point out to me anywhere in all of the OT or NT where God used the apparition of a dead person to do a miracles? You won't find it! In fact - God forbids communication with the dead.
Deut. 18:9-12
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.
God stated that it is SIN to communicate with the dead so why would God use a dead Mary or apparition of her to communicate with his church? God would be guilty of violating his own command. Thus it is an abomination to believe as you do as you have been deceived by Satan.

You are forgetting one crucial thing. Deut 18 is talking about necromancy, and communing with dead spirits.

That is not what is happening here. The Catholic Church teaches of the communion of saints, the communion and bond between all members of Christ's Church. This does not stop with this world, as we are assured in the Bible that those of us who die in Christ are alive in Heaven. Only their bodies are dead, their souls are alive with Jesus. We are shown in Rev that the Saints in Heaven pass on our prayers to God and also pray for us on earth. The Church body is one, both here on earth and in Heaven.

The Catholic Church also teaches that Mary is alive in Heaven, body and soul, as she was assumed into Heaven by our Lord Jesus when her time on this earth was done.

Once again you are placing God into a box, and trying to use your limited worldly understanding on how God works. Mary, as well as the Saints and all those who die in Christ, are ALIVE in Heaven. They ARE NOT dead.

As such, this is not necromancy, and is not against Scripture. So please, I am still waiting for proof.
 
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