what is it that catholics do wrong?

[Oldmantook]

Mary is dead and so is every saint who ever lived. You can choose to believe the Catholic church or the scriptures - your choice. If the Scripture is not enough proof for you then you can keep doing what you do. Although the spirits of the saints are in heaven there is not one account in all of the Bible that God used the spirits of the dead to communicate with those still alive on earth. When King Saul did this with the witch of Endor he was condemned. You risk doing the same thing but again that's your choice. The burden is on you to scripturally prove otherwise.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Mary is dead and so is every saint who ever lived. You can choose to believe the Catholic church or the scriptures - your choice. If the Scripture is not enough proof for you then you can keep doing what you do. Although the spirits of the saints are in heaven there is not one account in all of the Bible that God used the spirits of the dead to communicate with those still alive on earth. When King Saul did this with the witch of Endor he was condemned. You risk doing the same thing but again that's your choice. The burden is on you to scripturally prove otherwise.

Sola Scriptura is your limitation, not mine.

Have you ever done any research into the apparitions of Mary and what was told to us? Or the outcomes of said apparitions? If not, I highly suggest you do.

So clearly you do not believe in the communion of saints, and that those of us who die in Christ are alive in heaven, and how the saints in heaven offer up prayers to God on our behalf as shown in Revelations.

That...honestly is sad. Mary and the Saints are dead by earthly standards, not by God's standards, and honestly I think His standards win here. We are told that we will be alive in Heaven, so that right there goes against your stance, that they are dead.

I don't need to provide some arbitrary verse from scripture that is plucked out to "prove my stance."

The proof, is in the event. We are told to test the spirits, but also not to question the Holy Spirit. So then how do we test the spirits? Easily, what do they say?

The apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe, occurred in 1531. Mary identified herself as "mother of the very true deity" and asked for a church to be built at the site in her honor. Originally, the bishop did not believe this was true and asked for a sign. Saint Juan Deigo was visited by Mary a total of 4 times, the 4th time being the most significant.

Juan's uncle had fallen ill, and Juan left to get a priest. He changed his route to purposely miss meeting Mary at the appointed time and place, yet Mary still met him on the road. Juan then explained why he did not go to the appointed place, to which Mary responded "Am I not here? I who am your mother?". She then instructed Juan to go towards this hill, which is normally barren, to collect roses and bring them to the bishop. On the hill, in the middle of December, Juan found Castilian Roses which are not native to Mexico. Mary placed the roses into his cloak and told him to take them to the bishop as a sign. When Juan got there and dropped the roses, a large imprint of the Virgin Mary appeared on his cloak. Juan's uncle was also cured completely the next day.

More on it here: Our Lady of Guadalupe - Wikipedia

Next is Our Lady of Laus, which occurred between the years 1664 and 1718. Mary appeared to Benoite Rencurel, a young shepherdess and instructed her to rebuild a rubbled Chapel into a new Chapel. "It is my desire that a new chapel be built here in honour of my beloved Son.It will become a place of conversion for numerous sinners and I shall appear here very often”

Mary's message was for sinners to do penance, the chapel built so that Jesus would convert numerous sinners, and a house for priests to be able to administer the sacraments to sinners.

Another one is Our Lady of La Sallette, in 1846. Mary appeared to two children. Mary's message was for people to respect the repose of the seventh day and to respect the name of God. She wished for the conversion of all human kind to Christ.

She also warned of a punishment in the form of rotten potatoes. This warning is a few months prior to the Great Potato Famine of Ireland and a potato shortage in the rest of Europe during the winter of 1846-1847.

This is only to name a few. Now, if you wish to read more, here is the link: Marian apparition - Wikipedia

I am of course also going only off the list of apparitions approved by the Catholic Church.

 

[gordonhooker]

Why don't you simply point out to me anywhere in all of the OT or NT where God used the apparition of a dead person to do a miracles? You won't find it! In fact - God forbids communication with the dead.
Deut. 18:9-12
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.
God stated that it is SIN to communicate with the dead so why would God use a dead Mary or apparition of her to communicate with his church? God would be guilty of violating his own command. Thus it is an abomination to believe as you do as you have been deceived by Satan.

So the Tranfiguration that the synoptic Gospels describe and what was described in 2Peter 1:16-18 didn’t happen. I read some where that Moses died and was buried in Moab Duet. 34:6.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Why don't you simply point out to me anywhere in all of the OT or NT where God used the apparition of a dead person to do a miracles? You won't find it! In fact - God forbids communication with the dead.
Deut. 18:9-12
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.
God stated that it is SIN to communicate with the dead so why would God use a dead Mary or apparition of her to communicate with his church? God would be guilty of violating his own command. Thus it is an abomination to believe as you do as you have been deceived by Satan.

Not an apparition (and TBH we don't recognize the Marian apparitions of Catholicism but not because God can't do such a thing) ... but what about raising a dead man back to life through the bones of a Saint?

That happened in the Scripture with Elisha's bones.


If someone tried to "call up" the Virgin Mary, or any person who has died, and have conversation with them, that would be necromancy. This is not what is being described.

 

[joshcorn]

http://ldolphin.org/PDFs/The_Two_Babylons-Alexander_Hislop.pdf

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hislop ...

 

[Goatee]

So the Tranfiguration that the synoptic Gospels describe and what was described in 2Peter 1:16-18 didn’t happen. I read some where that Moses died and was buried in Moab Duet. 34:6.

Exactly!

Jesus spoke with them on the mountain.

And this:

Luke 16:19-31

19 “There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz′arus, full of sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz′arus in his bosom. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz′arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz′arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’”

 

[fat wee robin]

Often people say catholics are so giving around the world. But that isn't true really. They are only this way because they are taught you earn your way into heaven through good works. So if they found out good works don't get you into heaven, I bet they would not be as helpful as they are.

Some say I'm assuming that. And maybe I am. However if I asked you to run down the street during a blizzard in just a bathing suit, would you do it? No. If I offered you $1,000 to do it, odds are you would do it for sure. Rewards make people want to help more sadly.

Rituals, crusades...etc are other things they have not done right. To be fair alot of catholics haven't really studied the bible. Out of those "alot", some are told they aren't supposed to read it because the bishops told them its not their job. For the rest they have read the bible but refuse to accept the added books are not canon. They are added on. Which is why alot of what they do (like rituals and earning your way to heaven) are wrong.

As for what they do right? Well I'll just say the wrong list is much longer then the right list. Not much they do (at least from the ones around where I live) are like lets say a non-denom or evangelical.

Pity this thread is not about what things do protestants (who believe salvation just means believing Jesus is God ) do well . It would be very short . Just to note Satan also knows Jesus is God ,but it avails him not at all, as he does no active good, his belief is pointless .
As it is , the one on Catholics is very long . They of course do not do everything right by any means , but then who does , or has done in the last 2,000 years ?

 

[Goatee]

Catholics believe that works without faith is futile. Did not Jesus say to clothe the naked? To feed the hungry?

 

[fat wee robin]

My whole family worships Mary. They never really bring up God or Jesus. They chant stuff about mary they learned in church, they pray to her...etc. I'm not sure what group of catholic they are. Is there like a defeult group for US catholics? Maybe Roman Catholic?

Yes you are correct there ,and I should know . One of the faults of the RCCatholics, is they never admit that that certain practices exist .They deny the experience of the likes of you and me . A little better now ,but questioning was stamped on , and drove away all of my family , the educated ones , while the 'followers ' accept everything without question, which has led to the loss of many good people .

 

[Goatee]

Been a Catholic for 53 years.

Not known one Catholic who worships Mary.

Just a non-Catholic pathetic and stupid argument!

 

[fat wee robin]

Rubbish. No Catholic worships Mary. Protestants do as that's all they see!

You are wrong . Many do in certain countries .
Less so now, but only because we have the internet to find out for ourselves .

 

[fat wee robin]

Been a Catholic for 53 years.

Not known one Catholic who worships Mary.

Just a non-Catholic pathetic and stupid argument!

You live in protestant country , but in Spain,Portugal , and so on many do not even realise Jesus is the centre of our religion , not Mary .
I had the experience four years ago to talk with some who went to catholic schoosl who were in their thirties ,and I asked if they ever prayed, and they said yes ,to Mary and some saints , but looked surprised when I asked if they prayed to Jesus .They never had .
Just following rituals which became meaningless to them over time ,and they no longer believed much in anything as a result .Instead their devotion is to their patrimoine Catalonia .They have been let down by a Church who may have fed the poor ,but not the minds and hearts (souls ) of their local people and treated them like living Learning beings ,not 'sheep' .
This can only come from one source ,a lack of real faith among the clergy , and an investment instead
in the appearance of such ,through the material structures and practices .

 

[fat wee robin]

Talk about your back-handed compliment.

It is an insult ,not a compliment . He is being sarcastic .

 

[Oldmantook]

Not an apparition (and TBH we don't recognize the Marian apparitions of Catholicism but not because God can't do such a thing) ... but what about raising a dead man back to life through the bones of a Saint?

That happened in the Scripture with Elisha's bones.


If someone tried to "call up" the Virgin Mary, or any person who has died, and have conversation with them, that would be necromancy. This is not what is being described.

There are many accounts throughout the scriptures where God resurrected dead people including the Elisha account which you cited. In none of those accounts (with the exception of King Saul) is -communicating with them the reason for their resurrection- they were simply made alive again. The very fact that the Catholic Church upholds Mary's communication via apparition with the church as being as okay/true is by definition a form of necromancy - hence an abomination.

 

[Philip_B]

by definition a form of necromancy - hence an abomination.

In the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus has conquered death, so I don't see how acknowledging the Saints as alive to God is anything other than the affirmation of the victory won once for all on Calvary.

 

[Oldmantook]

So the Tranfiguration that the synoptic Gospels describe and what was described in 2Peter 1:16-18 didn’t happen. I read some where that Moses died and was buried in Moab Duet. 34:6.

Of course miracles happened - the Bible is replete with instances of miracles. However to use that to claim that I don't believe that God can do miracles and anything he wants for that matter is a specious argument and a red herring. The simple fact is no where in the entire Bible does God use a dead person, or a spirit of a dead person to communicate with the living. He uses himself to communicate with us as well as angels to communicate with us. The only instance I know of is King Saul's attempt to communicate with the spirit of Elijah which was a sin. Thus the apparition/spirit of Mary communicating with the church is a sin also for those who believe and/or seek it out.

 

[Oldmantook]

In the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus has conquered death, so I don't see how acknowledging the Saints as alive to God is anything other than the affirmation of the victory won once for all on Calvary.

The dead saints are indeed alive in Christ; however Scripture forbids communicating with them otherwise known as necromancy.

 

[Oldmantook]

Sola Scriptura is your limitation, not mine.

That says it all right there! Since you go beyond what Scripture teaches/commands you can interpret the Bible however you wish since you are the one who decides what the limits are - in essence, the definition of disobedience. You tread on shaky ground but that is your prerogative.

 

[Philip_B]

The dead saints are indeed alive in Christ; however Scripture forbids communicating with them otherwise known as necromancy.

I am more interested in what you are for than what you are against. Celebrating and affirming the resurrection does not seem like necromancy to me.