What is good?

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
That is Man's wisdom. You are adding what is not. Cutting grass is not the same as healing someone who has been sick. That was the context of the passage when He said that.. Helping someone in distress should never be ignored. That is the context of all the circumstances when Christ was accused of violating the Sabbath..
The direct context is healing and pulling sheep out of pits. How can we use these examples as well as Christ statement that it's lawful to do good to understand what "doing good is"? You're quick to tell me I'm wrong but seem reluctant to define goodness which is the crux of the op.

When I read a passage regarding rescuing sheep it typically is a massive hint that Christ is not actually taking about sheep or physical life, he's taking about salvation. Do you disagree with this? What does "pulling sheep out of pits" exactly look like when we view it as a salvation metaphor?
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,598
2,211
88
Union County, TN
✟662,205.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It doesn't matter what you or I agree with. The Pharesees setting their own rules outside of God's prescription would have agreed among themselves also. That lot was better than this.
Very true, but you think what you believe is scriptural and is telling us and I am wrong and vice versa. So, we debate and never convince each other.
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,984
1,748
58
Alabama
Visit site
✟375,873.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Very true, but you think what you believe is scriptural and is telling us and I am wrong and vice versa. So, we debate and never convince each other.
No I don't think what I believe is scriptural nor do I share what I believe.
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,984
1,748
58
Alabama
Visit site
✟375,873.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The direct context is healing and pulling sheep out of pits. How can we use these examples as well as Christ statement that it's lawful to do good to understand what "doing good is"? You're quick to tell me I'm wrong but seem reluctant to define goodness which is the crux of the op.

When I read a passage regarding rescuing sheep it typically is a massive hint that Christ is not actually taking about sheep or physical life, he's taking about salvation. Do you disagree with this? What does "pulling sheep out of pits" exactly look like when we view it as a salvation metaphor?
Context speaks of emergencies and things that are needful. Cutting grass is neither. Helping her with meals would be. Or maybe taking her to a doctor appt. Or maybe if she had a dog, making sure it got took out to use the bathroom. Or stopping by to help her get outside and get some fresh air. Or maybe if her toilet was overflowing and she called. Swing by and take care of that. Or if she was bedridden and soiled herself, help her with that. Cutting her grass does not even come close to helping her out of a ditch in which she may have fallen. But swinging by and pulling her out of the ditch of this world if she had fallen into it would. And we don't do that by sharing our way. We do this through Christ and His Way. And His Way did not include Sin. Sin as put forth in Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Context speaks of emergencies and things that are needful. Cutting grass is neither. Helping her with meals would be. Or maybe taking her to a doctor appt. Or maybe if she had a dog, making sure it got took out to use the bathroom. Or stopping by to help her get outside and get some fresh air. Or maybe if her toilet was overflowing and she called. Swing by and take care of that. Or if she was bedridden and soiled herself, help her with that. Cutting her grass does not even come close to helping her out of a ditch in which she may have fallen. But swinging by and pulling her out of the ditch of this world if she had fallen into it would. And we don't do that by sharing our way. We do this through Christ and His Way. And His Way did not include Sin. Sin as put forth in Scripture.
You speak of physical emergencies I speak of spiritual ones. The lost need to be pulled out of their pits. So what is the metaphorical lifeline? Ladders and ropes may help the physical but something like cutting grass may give us access to share the gospel that other things were unable to. The goal is the gospel and the work of the gospel is good, not sinful. What exactly do you think pulling sheep out of pits looked like? It can be laborous work especially in poor conditions.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Jesus tells gives a heuristic approach to the Sabbath saying "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". (Mt 12:12) This demands the question then "What is good?" At least in the explicit context doing good is pulling sheep out of pits, healing withered hands, levitical priestly duties on the Sabbath, and David and his men eating sacramental bread (which seems to be an outside sabbath example). These examples are all lawful and implicitly good despite going outside of the written law and may have physical value as well as spiritual. (so for example pulling sheep out of pits may have a deeper meaning than just physical sheep out of physical pits)

Out of curiosity I did a Google search of a list of good things and by no means am I suggesting they are influenced by biblical values but here are 10 I found on this website that happened to have a specific section labeled "For Neighbours" so I thought it was appropriate.
  1. Introduce yourself, even if — especially if — you’ve lived near each other for a while but haven’t met.
  2. Compliment a neighbor on a feature of their home.
  3. Scrape the ice off a neighbor’s windshield after you’ve finished doing yours.
  4. Mow their lawn, rake their leaves or sweep their sidewalk as a surprise.
  5. Make a double batch of the cookies you’re baking and bring some next door.
  6. Plan a neighborhood block party so everyone can get to know each other better.
  7. Walk your neighbor’s dog when he has to stay late at the office.
  8. Offer to babysit a neighbor’s child for free.
  9. Build a “little free library” box in your yard. Put books in it for your neighbors to borrow, and invite them to donate their books.
  10. Make dinner for a neighbor who has just had a baby or surgery.
Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone.

Based on this list which can we agree are good? To start let's establish first if they are good on a day that is not the Sabbath before we establish if they are good on the Sabbath. When I read the list, they are all reconcilable with goodness given the right motivation. And if they can be called good, then they can be called lawful on the Sabbath. But if an item on this list cannot be performed on the Sabbath then the reverse is true too, that it cannot be called good on any other day.

Can these items be called good?
The Sabbath was made for man's rest, not man for the Sabbath.

The NT Sabbath of rest is in Jesus Christ, in whom we rest from our own work to save, and in his work which saves.

And the NT believers chose the regular day of assembly to be on Sunday rather than Saturday.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Gary K

an old small town kid
Aug 23, 2002
4,209
914
Visit site
✟97,237.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
The Sabbath was made for man's rest, not man for the Sabbath.

The NT Sabbath of rest is in Jesus Christ, in whom we rest from our own work to save, and in his work which saves.

And the NT believers chose the regular day of assembly to be on Sunday rather than Saturday.
Where do you get the idea that we humans can choose what day we want to worship God especially as He has told us on which day we are to worship Him? I've never seen that taught anywhere in the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The Sabbath was made for man's rest, not man for the Sabbath.

The NT Sabbath of rest is in Jesus Christ, in whom we rest from our own work to save, and in his work which saves.

And the NT believers chose the regular day of assembly to be on Sunday rather than Saturday.
The Sabbath law (4th commandment) is as much about resting for ourselfes as it is giving that rest to those within our care. If Sabbath rest in the new covenant can be found in Christ, not through a day, then we should be showing that rest to others in our care as much as we can. Who is in our care? The parable of the good Samaritan answers that.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Where do you get the idea that we humans can choose what day we want to worship God especially as He has told us on which day we are to worship Him? I've never seen that taught anywhere in the Bible.
We see it practiced in the NT on Sunday (Ac 20:27, 1 Co 16:2).

That does not preclude society from giving time off from work every week.
But the NT Sabbath is not about the work week, it's about the spiritual work "week" of full-time rest in Jesus Christ from our own work to save.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Sabbath law (4th commandment) is as much about resting for ourselfes as it is giving that rest to those within our care. If Sabbath rest in the new covenant can be found in Christ, not through a day, then we should be showing that rest to others in our care as much as we can. Who is in our care? The parable of the good Samaritan answers that.
How do we show to others our rest in Christ from our own works to save?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That isn't a valid reason. It must be taught in scripture that humanity is justified in setting aside God's law.
See Ro 13:8-10 where all of God's law is fulfilled in simply loving.

In the NT, we have one law which fulfills all God's law: love of God and neighbor as self (Ro 13:8-10).
 
Upvote 0

Gary K

an old small town kid
Aug 23, 2002
4,209
914
Visit site
✟97,237.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
See Ro 13:8-10 where all of God's law is fulfilled in simply loving.
That still does not teach it is ok for humans to set aside God's specific commands on how we are to live. Sin is the transgression of the law.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That still does not teach it is ok for humans to set aside God's specific commands on how we are to live. Sin is the transgression of the law.
Don't know how to say it any more plainly than does Ro 13:8-10.

You either believe it or you don't, and that is above my paygrade.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gary K

an old small town kid
Aug 23, 2002
4,209
914
Visit site
✟97,237.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Don't know know to say it any more plain than does Ro 13:8-10.

You either believe it or you don't, and that is above my paygrade.
Well, I would just say that scripture does not argue with itself and to attempt to make it do that is a really bad idea.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Well, I would just say that scripture does not argue with itself and to attempt to make it do that is a really bad idea.
If you find it argumentative, then you are incorrectly interpreting Scripture, for Scripture does not contradict itself.

Until you reconcile them, rather than conflicting them, your understanding of them is not Biblical.
 
Upvote 0

Gary K

an old small town kid
Aug 23, 2002
4,209
914
Visit site
✟97,237.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
If you find it argumentative, then you are incorrectly interpreting Scripture, for Scripture does not contradict itself.

Until you reconcile them, rather than conflicting them, your understanding of them is not Biblical.
So your idea is that loving God supremely, loving Him with all your heart and mind, is setting aside His laws? How can that be? The two concepts are radically opposed to each other.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So your idea is that loving God supremely, loving Him with all your heart and mind, is setting aside His laws? How can that be? The two concepts are radically opposed to each other.
It's your job to reconcile Scripture to itself, not mine.

I have done so.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,185
6,142
North Carolina
✟277,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
OK. You're determined to believe what you want to believe.
Yes, I'm determined to believe what Scripture presents, unless you can Biblically demonstrate that what I believe is in error.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0