What is good?

[DamianWarS]

Jesus tells gives a heuristic approach to the Sabbath saying "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". (Mt 12:12) This demands the question then "What is good?" At least in the explicit context doing good is pulling sheep out of pits, healing withered hands, levitical priestly duties on the Sabbath, and David and his men eating sacramental bread (which seems to be an outside sabbath example). These examples are all lawful and implicitly good despite going outside of the written law and may have physical value as well as spiritual. (so for example pulling sheep out of pits may have a deeper meaning than just physical sheep out of physical pits)

Out of curiosity I did a Google search of a list of good things and by no means am I suggesting they are influenced by biblical values but here are 10 I found on this website that happened to have a specific section labeled "For Neighbours" so I thought it was appropriate.

1. Introduce yourself, even if — especially if — you’ve lived near each other for a while but haven’t met.
2. Compliment a neighbor on a feature of their home.
3. Scrape the ice off a neighbor’s windshield after you’ve finished doing yours.
4. Mow their lawn, rake their leaves or sweep their sidewalk as a surprise.
5. Make a double batch of the cookies you’re baking and bring some next door.
6. Plan a neighborhood block party so everyone can get to know each other better.
7. Walk your neighbor’s dog when he has to stay late at the office.
8. Offer to babysit a neighbor’s child for free.
9. Build a “little free library” box in your yard. Put books in it for your neighbors to borrow, and invite them to donate their books.
10. Make dinner for a neighbor who has just had a baby or surgery.

Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone.

Based on this list which can we agree are good? To start let's establish first if they are good on a day that is not the Sabbath before we establish if they are good on the Sabbath. When I read the list, they are all reconcilable with goodness given the right motivation. And if they can be called good, then they can be called lawful on the Sabbath. But if an item on this list cannot be performed on the Sabbath then the reverse is true too, that it cannot be called good on any other day.

Can these items be called good?

 

[HIM]

Jesus tells gives a heuristic approach to the Sabbath saying "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". (Mt 12:12) This demands the question then "What is good?" At least in the explicit context doing good is pulling sheep out of pits, healing withered hands, levitical priestly duties on the Sabbath, and David and his men eating sacramental bread (which seems to be an outside sabbath example). These examples are all lawful and implicitly good despite going outside of the written law and may have physical value as well as spiritual. (so for example pulling sheep out of pits may have a deeper meaning than just physical sheep out of physical pits)

Out of curiosity I did a Google search of a list of good things and by no means am I suggesting they are influenced by biblical values but here are 10 I found on this website that happened to have a specific section labeled "For Neighbours" so I thought it was appropriate.

1. Introduce yourself, even if — especially if — you’ve lived near each other for a while but haven’t met.
2. Compliment a neighbor on a feature of their home.
3. Scrape the ice off a neighbor’s windshield after you’ve finished doing yours.
4. Mow their lawn, rake their leaves or sweep their sidewalk as a surprise.
5. Make a double batch of the cookies you’re baking and bring some next door.
6. Plan a neighborhood block party so everyone can get to know each other better.
7. Walk your neighbor’s dog when he has to stay late at the office.
8. Offer to babysit a neighbor’s child for free.
9. Build a “little free library” box in your yard. Put books in it for your neighbors to borrow, and invite them to donate their books.
10. Make dinner for a neighbor who has just had a baby or surgery.

Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone.

Based on this list which can we agree are good? To start let's establish first if they are good on a day that is not the Sabbath before we establish if they are good on the Sabbath. When I read the list, they are all reconcilable with goodness given the right motivation. And if they can be called good, then they can be called lawful on the Sabbath. But if an item on this list cannot be performed on the Sabbath then the reverse is true too, that it cannot be called good on any other day.

Can these items be called good?

Grass and many other things on your list can be done any other day. The Sabbath is to be a day of rest and worship. To ignore someone in distress is another matter altogether. We should always be ready to help someone in an emergency, even on the Sabbath.

 

[trophy33]

In the Christian era, the rules about observing days are fairly simple:

1. You can do what is good on any day
2. You cannot do what is evil on any day

To your list - if its good to do on Tuesday, its also good to do on Saturday. We walk by the Spirit, not by the names of days.

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus tells gives a heuristic approach to the Sabbath saying "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". (Mt 12:12) This demands the question then "What is good?" At least in the explicit context doing good is pulling sheep out of pits, healing withered hands, levitical priestly duties on the Sabbath, and David and his men eating sacramental bread (which seems to be an outside sabbath example). These examples are all lawful and implicitly good despite going outside of the written law and may have physical value as well as spiritual. (so for example pulling sheep out of pits may have a deeper meaning than just physical sheep out of physical pits)

Out of curiosity I did a Google search of a list of good things and by no means am I suggesting they are influenced by biblical values but here are 10 I found on this website that happened to have a specific section labeled "For Neighbours" so I thought it was appropriate.

1. Introduce yourself, even if — especially if — you’ve lived near each other for a while but haven’t met.
2. Compliment a neighbor on a feature of their home.
3. Scrape the ice off a neighbor’s windshield after you’ve finished doing yours.
4. Mow their lawn, rake their leaves or sweep their sidewalk as a surprise.
5. Make a double batch of the cookies you’re baking and bring some next door.
6. Plan a neighborhood block party so everyone can get to know each other better.
7. Walk your neighbor’s dog when he has to stay late at the office.
8. Offer to babysit a neighbor’s child for free.
9. Build a “little free library” box in your yard. Put books in it for your neighbors to borrow, and invite them to donate their books.
10. Make dinner for a neighbor who has just had a baby or surgery.

Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone.

Based on this list which can we agree are good? To start let's establish first if they are good on a day that is not the Sabbath before we establish if they are good on the Sabbath. When I read the list, they are all reconcilable with goodness given the right motivation. And if they can be called good, then they can be called lawful on the Sabbath. But if an item on this list cannot be performed on the Sabbath then the reverse is true too, that it cannot be called good on any other day.

Can these items be called good?

Yes, they can all be called good.

The standard I use is Can it be done in the name of the Lord? If it can't, then it's a really valid question as to whether it should be done imo.

Bible Gateway passage: Colossians 3:17 - New International Version

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[DamianWarS]

Grass and many other things on your list can be done any other day. The Sabbath is to be a day of rest and worship. To ignore someone in distress is another matter altogether. We should always be ready to help someone in an emergency, even on the Sabbath.

Christ tells us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. So if "grass and many other things" can be called good on any other day then they can be called good on the Sabbath. Otherwise, if they are restricted on the Sabbath then they cannot be called good. it's simple math, if A = B then B = A.

 

[DamianWarS]

Yes, they can all be called good.

The standard I use is Can it be done in the name of the Lord? If it can't, then it's a really valid question as to whether it should be done imo.

Bible Gateway passage: Colossians 3:17 - New International Version

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

www.biblegateway.com

the heuristic of "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" can be shortened to simply "it is lawful to do good" (or shortened again "do good") as the qualifier "Sabbath" doesn't influence the act as being more or less good. If the act is good, then it is good on all days of the week. Using Christ's example of healing or pulling sheep out of pits he deliberately shows inherently good acts that are universal to show that because they are good they are lawful on the Sabbath. What Christ implicitly shows is goodness breaks through the holy/secular divide so long as our acts are good (in the context of biblical goodness) then they are holy and worthy to be performed on any day of the week. This is also an echo of the 2 greatest commandments which is the same heuristic with more detail.

 

[HIM]

Christ tells us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. So if "grass and many other things" can be called good on any other day then they can be called good on the Sabbath. Otherwise, if they are restricted on the Sabbath then they cannot be called good. it's simple math, if A = B then B = A.

That is Man's wisdom. You are adding what is not. Cutting grass is not the same as healing someone who has been sick. That was the context of the passage when He said that.. Helping someone in distress should never be ignored. That is the context of all the circumstances when Christ was accused of violating the Sabbath..

 

[Bob S]

Jesus tells gives a heuristic approach to the Sabbath saying "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". (Mt 12:12) This demands the question then "What is good?" At least in the explicit context doing good is pulling sheep out of pits, healing withered hands, levitical priestly duties on the Sabbath, and David and his men eating sacramental bread (which seems to be an outside sabbath example). These examples are all lawful and implicitly good despite going outside of the written law and may have physical value as well as spiritual. (so for example pulling sheep out of pits may have a deeper meaning than just physical sheep out of physical pits)

Out of curiosity I did a Google search of a list of good things and by no means am I suggesting they are influenced by biblical values but here are 10 I found on this website that happened to have a specific section labeled "For Neighbours" so I thought it was appropriate.

1. Introduce yourself, even if — especially if — you’ve lived near each other for a while but haven’t met.
2. Compliment a neighbor on a feature of their home.
3. Scrape the ice off a neighbor’s windshield after you’ve finished doing yours.
4. Mow their lawn, rake their leaves or sweep their sidewalk as a surprise.
5. Make a double batch of the cookies you’re baking and bring some next door.
6. Plan a neighborhood block party so everyone can get to know each other better.
7. Walk your neighbor’s dog when he has to stay late at the office.
8. Offer to babysit a neighbor’s child for free.
9. Build a “little free library” box in your yard. Put books in it for your neighbors to borrow, and invite them to donate their books.
10. Make dinner for a neighbor who has just had a baby or surgery.

Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone.

Based on this list which can we agree are good? To start let's establish first if they are good on a day that is not the Sabbath before we establish if they are good on the Sabbath. When I read the list, they are all reconcilable with goodness given the right motivation. And if they can be called good, then they can be called lawful on the Sabbath. But if an item on this list cannot be performed on the Sabbath then the reverse is true too, that it cannot be called good on any other day.

Can these items be called good?

To whom was Jesus addressing when He asked "is it lawful to good on the Sabbath?"? Jesus' ministry was to the Jews, Jews that were under the dictates of the Laws given at Sinai. Every jot and tittle of the Law was in effect. Part of Jesus' ministry was to fulfil every jot and tittle of the Law. The question is, did Jesus accomplish what He said He came to do? Why do some deny Jesus' accomplishment and insist that Gentiles must adhere to laws that were never part of their lives.? No one today has to give it a thought as to whether it is lawful to help someone on any day of the week.

I agree wholeheartedly with Damian's profound statement:
"Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone." The Holy Spirit is the great motivator along with our love for our fellow man. Out of this Love we will mow the widow's lawn any day of the week we have the time.

 

[Leaf473]

the heuristic of "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" can be shortened to simply "it is lawful to do good" (or shortened again "do good") as the qualifier "Sabbath" doesn't influence the act as being more or less good. If the act is good, then it is good on all days of the week. Using Christ's example of healing or pulling sheep out of pits he deliberately shows inherently good acts that are universal to show that because they are good they are lawful on the Sabbath. What Christ implicitly shows is goodness breaks through the holy/secular divide so long as our acts are good (in the context of biblical goodness) then they are holy and worthy to be performed on any day of the week. This is also an echo of the 2 greatest commandments which is the same heuristic with more detail.

I agree. To go further, I think that adding "as long as it can't be done on another day" isn't warranted.

I think it is best understood as
"it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath"
not
"it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath, unless it can be done on another day."

 

[timothyu]

The simplest thing to do is not seek personal gain at the personal expense of another.

 

[Blade]

Christ said you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children how much more will He give the holy Spirit to them that ask. So with out knowing Christ.. your are wicked, unrighteous, sinner condemned already. So putting God/Christ first having Him lord of your life is the only way to truly know what good is. Its Him

 

[DamianWarS]

That is Man's wisdom. You are adding what is not. Cutting grass is not the same as healing someone who has been sick. That was the context of the passage when He said that.. Helping someone in distress should never be ignored. That is the context of all the circumstances when Christ was accused of violating the Sabbath..

Jesus gives us a heuristic approach, not a list of do's and dont's. if cutting grass cannot be called good on the Sabbath then you are rejecting it from being called good at all in any circumstance. This creates a holy/secular divide where essentially only things that can be practiced according to the law on the sabbath define what is good and rejects all work and activities that can't be done on the sabbath from being called good. This is not a statement I would like to make, I would also suggest it is counter-gospel.

 

[DamianWarS]

Christ said you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children how much more will He give the holy Spirit to them that ask. So with out knowing Christ.. your are wicked, unrighteous, sinner condemned already. So putting God/Christ first having Him lord of your life is the only way to truly know what good is. Its Him

agreed, and acts by his name can be done on the Sabbath.

 

[timothyu]

agreed, and acts by his name can be done on the Sabbath.

Good thing it is not His day off

 

[DamianWarS]

To whom was Jesus addressing when He asked "is it lawful to good on the Sabbath?"? Jesus' ministry was to the Jews, Jews that were under the dictates of the Laws given at Sinai. Every jot and tittle of the Law was in effect. Part of Jesus' ministry was to fulfil every jot and tittle of the Law. The question is, did Jesus accomplish what He said He came to do? Why do some deny Jesus' accomplishment and insist that Gentiles must adhere to laws that were never part of their lives.? No one today has to give it a thought as to whether it is lawful to help someone on any day of the week.

I agree wholeheartedly with Damian's profound statement:
"Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone." The Holy Spirit is the great motivator along with our love for our fellow man. Out of this Love we will mow the widow's lawn any day of the week we have the time.

in a Sabbath vacuum, however, we see that goodness breaks the holy/secular divide. This of course demands the question if goodness is more noble of virtue than rest should we not just seek goodness? and not just on the Sabbath but on every day? Ergo Jesus doesn't just give us a heuristic to follow for the Sabbath but for all days which is simply to do good and help those in need. This of course is an echo of the 2 greatest commandments (not to mention throughout the NT) but in practice, just as we see with the good samaritan, it is a lateral move that focuses on meeting the needs of people over a rest posture that avoids interaction with people if it means breaking that posture which is a counter-gospel focus.

 

[DamianWarS]

The simplest thing to do is not seek personal gain at the personal expense of another.

this is not just a Sabbath rule but in all parts of life which is exactly the heuristic approach Jesus gives that doing good is always better.

 

[Leaf473]

in a Sabbath vacuum, however, we see that goodness breaks the holy/secular divide. This of course demands the question if goodness is more noble of virtue than rest should we not just seek goodness? and not just on the Sabbath but on every day? Ergo Jesus doesn't just give us a heuristic to follow for the Sabbath but for all days which is simply to do good and help those in need. This of course is an echo of the 2 greatest commandments (not to mention throughout the NT) but in practice, just as we see with the good samaritan, it is a lateral move that focuses on meeting the needs of people over a rest posture that avoids interaction with people if it means breaking that posture which is a counter-gospel focus.

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 2:10 - New American Standard Bible

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

That is Man's wisdom. You are adding what is not. Cutting grass is not the same as healing someone who has been sick. That was the context of the passage when He said that.. Helping someone in distress should never be ignored. That is the context of all the circumstances when Christ was accused of violating the Sabbath..

Hi HIM,

Don't feel like you need to respond to this, I just wanted to touch on the idea of context.

I consider these two things real possibilities:
To the gospel writers, subject matter was sometimes more important than chronological order.

Jesus said similar things many times.
_________________
That having been said, Matthew tells the story of Jesus passing through some fields on the Sabbath and then healing a man on the Sabbath.

In the fields, Jesus talks about how the priests break the Sabbath and are considered guiltless.

Myself, I think they're guiltless because they're doing good: it was a good thing to offer the daily sacrifices at that time.

 

[HIM]

Jesus gives us a heuristic approach, not a list of do's and dont's. if cutting grass cannot be called good on the Sabbath then you are rejecting it from being called good at all in any circumstance. This creates a holy/secular divide where essentially only things that can be practiced according to the law on the sabbath define what is good and rejects all work and activities that can't be done on the sabbath from being called good. This is not a statement I would like to make, I would also suggest it is counter-gospel.

That is Man's wisdom. You are adding what is not. Cutting grass is not the same as healing someone who has been sick. That was the context of the passage when He said that.. Helping someone in distress should never be ignored. That is the context of all the circumstances when Christ was accused of violating the Sabbath..

 

[HIM]

To whom was Jesus addressing when He asked "is it lawful to good on the Sabbath?"? Jesus' ministry was to the Jews, Jews that were under the dictates of the Laws given at Sinai. Every jot and tittle of the Law was in effect. Part of Jesus' ministry was to fulfil every jot and tittle of the Law. The question is, did Jesus accomplish what He said He came to do? Why do some deny Jesus' accomplishment and insist that Gentiles must adhere to laws that were never part of their lives.? No one today has to give it a thought as to whether it is lawful to help someone on any day of the week.

I agree wholeheartedly with Damian's profound statement:
"Although these acts are void of biblical purpose as Christians we can do these acts motivated to show Christ to others and help to meet the needs of others so we are able to fill these acts with greater purpose outside of humanistic values alone." The Holy Spirit is the great motivator along with our love for our fellow man. Out of this Love we will mow the widow's lawn any day of the week we have the time.

It doesn't matter what you or I agree with. The Pharesees setting their own rules outside of God's prescription would have agreed among themselves also. That lot was better than this.