What is "Faith"?

[Divide]

Do you distinguish between your human spirit from the Holy Spirit?

Yes I do. Want that scripture?

 

[tonychanyt]

Yes I do. Want that scripture?

Is your human spirit perfect?

 

[Divide]

Is your human spirit perfect?

How many times will you ask that question and not listen to my response? I've said it a dozen times, go re-read if you have to.

Or maybe even hint at your own views? Wow, what a concept. A conversation instead of an interrogation.

 

[tonychanyt]

How many times will you ask that question and not listen to my response? I've said it a dozen times, go re-read if you have to.

Or maybe even hint at your own views? Wow, what a concept. A conversation instead of an interrogation.

Sorry that I am slow. Please be gracious and answer in your next reply:
Is your human spirit perfect?

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Sorry that I am slow. Please be gracious and answer in your next reply:
Is your human spirit perfect?

How would that help define faith?

 

[Fervent]

I needed no proof to believe. I loved Him first. Blessings.

believe what, exactly?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

believe what, exactly?

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh.

 

[Fervent]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh.

There's a lot to unpack there, but was the revelation of the Holy Spirit not proof in itself?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

There's a lot to unpack there, but was the revelation of the Holy Spirit not proof in itself?

I believed as a child. When I was in my 20's I received His Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. My belief never wavered after I heard about Him. I never at anytime needed proof, I just believed. Blessings.

 

[B Griffin]

Faith Part 2

For we walk by faith, not by sight. (2 Co 5:7)​

Faith is an essential ingredient in our quest to live lives that are well pleasing to God. But simple ascent to the trustworthiness of God’s communications is not enough on its own. To live lives of faith, we must also conduct ourselves in accordance with what God tells us (i.e., we must walk by faith). James does a good job of marrying faith and conduct. And He does a good job of differentiating between faith that is effective and faith that is dead.

James wrote, “Lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls” (James 1:21). In his very next breath, he cautioned, “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves” (James 1:22). And in these two verses, we see all the elements of what it means to walk by faith.

To walk by faith, we turn away from the urges of the flesh, and we trust in and rely on the urges of the Holy Spirit (i.e., “the implanted word”). When we have full confidence in Him and act on His communications, then we successfully combat the lusts of the flesh (because when we act on His desires, we are not simultaneously acting on the desires of the flesh). Simply believing is not enough; we must also act. James makes this point dramatically when He wrote, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26).

Each of us began this life of faith when, according to John 6:45, we heard and learned from the Father (faith) and turned to Jesus for salvation (action). And we continue to walk by faith to this day.​

 

[Aaron112]

For we walk by faith, not by sight. (2 Co 5:7)

Faith is an essential ingredient in our quest to live lives that are well pleasing to God. But simple ascent to the trustworthiness of God’s communications is not enough on its own.​

I don't think you are,
but clarify - are you equating faith here with "simple ascent" ?
Or agree that faith is not at all "simple ascent" , not even just ascent to something like believing something - faith is so much more ....

 

[B Griffin]

I don't think you are,
but clarify - are you equating faith here with "simple ascent" ?
Or agree that faith is not at all "simple ascent" , not even just ascent to something like believing something - faith is so much more ....

I agree it was a poor choice of words. All I was trying to do was to draw attention to the two components of "walking by faith" (action and belief). I did that because we often view "faith" as being "faith in action" without thinking about the components seperately. James seperated them for us when he said for "faith" to be alive, there must be an associated "action". In effect, if "faith" stands alone without "action", it is dead. Seeing faith and action together has value, but understanding that faith and action are two seperate things has value as well.

My objective is to focus our attention on the Spirit of God who is leading, guiding, directing, teaching, correcting, and comforting us from the intimacy of our own hearts. If we trust Him (faith) and act accordingly (walk), then we are walking in the Spirit, we are denying the flesh what it wants, and we are living a successful Christian life.

 

[d taylor]

-​

Faith is believing in something or someone and usually a statement they make.

A person may have faith in their car, that they will arrive to their destination without problems.
A person may have faith in a statement a person makes to them. A person may promise to come and help them repair a part of their home on the weekend. So the person has faith in the persons statement, that they will be there Saturday to help.

They go to their doctor when they fell ill, because they have faith in their doctor that he/she can help them get well.

Now faith in God is simply believing God's word (The Bible) and many of God's promises throughout The Bible. It can also be faith in God for a life situation a person may be facing, that God will help out or heal.

Faith in relation to receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life is simply believing God's promise. That all who believe in Jesus, has received God's free gift of Eternal Life and has crossed over from death to life and has become a born again child of God.

What faith is not is a decision. I hear many preachers say, have you made a decision for God/Jesus like the saying, will you decided to follow Jesus. A person does not just decide to believe in Jesus.
Is Faith a Decision? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Divide]

A person does not just decide to believe in Jesus.

I disagree. That's how it works. Didn't you see Miracle on 34th street? Seeing isnt believing...Believing is seeing.

So first you Believe and confess your beleif to the Lord and ask Him for forgiveness and to come into your heart to reveal to you who He is...

First you decide to trust Him at His word. You have not because you ask not, so you ask Him and pray to Him. Then you show yourself serious by studying His word. Then He reveals Himself to you and confirms it for you somehow. So that you can say, Ohhh! it is really true. You are really true! And that encourages your faith and strengthens it. Then you progress more and He reveals more.

So, you must Believe first. Then all those things will be added to you. Trust Him! Just do it.

 

[d taylor]

I disagree. That's how it works. Didn't you see Miracle on 34th street? Seeing isnt believing...Believing is seeing.

So first you Believe and confess your beleif to the Lord and ask Him for forgiveness and to come into your heart to reveal to you who He is...

First you decide to trust Him at His word. You have not because you ask not, so you ask Him and pray to Him. Then you show yourself serious by studying His word. Then He reveals Himself to you and confirms it for you somehow. So that you can say, Ohhh! it is really true. You are really true! And that encourages your faith and strengthens it. Then you progress more and He reveals more.

So, you must Believe first. Then all those things will be added to you. Trust Him! Just do it.

Nope a person must examine the evidence, if they are convinced the evidence presented is true. Then they will believe it, if they are not convinced the evidence is true they will not believe it.

A person can not believe something is true and choose to not believe it.

Plus a person does not need to confess anything to God, God knows the heart/mind, God knows when a person believes in Jesus. God does not need to be told by the believer they have believed.

 

[Divide]

Nope a person must examine the evidence, if they are convinced the evidence presented is true. Then they will believe it, if they are not convinced the evidence is true they will not believe it.

Mark 11:24
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.../KJV

That's one of Gods quirks Brother, He wants us to have faith and believe first then it happens after that.

God did not write, I will give them evidence to convince them...He said Have Faith and all these things shall be added unto you. Have you ever seen a Miracle? I have. Several of them. When God gives us supernatural help, that is the evidence! And you will know it because God always confirms that it was really Him. But not in such a way that you can go down to the Lab or the Newsroom and prove it on demand! So while I do "know" the truth of this, it is up to others to Believe my Testimony. God want it all done on faith without having seen proof.

You get proof for yourself. How would you like to hear some Testimonies of mine? Miracles and stuff.

A person can not believe something is true and choose to not believe it.

Now this is interesting. First lets remember that we live in a corrupted world where people can speak lies. But from what you say, a Believer can not change his beliefs by choice and abandon his faith. I disagree.

It's called an act of the will. I once had an incident of someone stealing some things from me that were very valuable. Oh I was hot. I was raging mad at him. But at the same time I am trying to walk with the Lord and I knew that, I must forgive them or, I will not be forgiven. But it was just too much value, too much underhandedness, too much humiliation and disappointment for me to honestly forgive him. But I knew I had to.

So I prayed and told God these things. And that I want to forgive them but have been unable to so I am making it an act of my will to declare that I have forgiven him for what he did to me. So I laid it at Jesus feet and trusted Him to change my heart. And the peace of God flooded me and I could then feel my forgiveness for the guy.

So it was a Praise the Lord moment. I felt like I should treat him as if it never happened (love him as myself)...so I did. A month later, he hit me again but even worse this time. He destroyed my forgiveness of him! Who cares about the worldly biracabrack but he put me in danger again. Because now I was seething at the man. I had no forgiveness for him. And yet, I don't want to die for it. So I did the only thng I could do. I made it an act of my will in prayer to make the choice to forgive him. Oh, It took longer this time but I have forgiven him again now.

So that's similar. I might suggest that people who choose not to believe once they already have, are bailing out for their favorite sins. So that would make them liars, right?

Plus a person does not need to confess anything to God, God knows the heart/mind, God knows when a person believes in Jesus. God does not need to be told by the believer they have believed.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.../KJV

See? This says you must confess with your mouth. You have to believe it first. Then, thou shalt be saved. Not thou were saved, but shall be. The belief comes first. The original language of the word "Believe" has a connotation of an accompanying action.

When Peter asked Jesus if he could walk on the water to Him, Jesus said Yes! What if Peter had cose to stay on the boat and replied, I believe you Jesus. That is not belief! When Peter got out of the boat and committed his weight to the water, now that's Belief!.

Now none of that means that God doesnt know our hearts and mnds. Quite the contrary. He even knows how frail our belief system is. and He compensates for that with us. Grades us on the curve so to speak, lol. So I agree with you that God does not need for us to tell Him that we believe. He knows if we do or not. I believe that even a person such as a lady who has been in an accident and her child is in danger. Now this time, she is no christian, but her emotions run so high that her heart cries out to God for help and God receives her emotion as a prayer.

Have you ever been praying about something and praying slow and working it our in your mind just the right words to say and it makes you go silent and introspective. IOW, you go to your heart and meditate these trials before God.
Well I couldnt figure out how to pray it just right so I left off early.

But God received it all through your heart! When is a sigh a prayer? When it's fervant. We are def in agreement here.

 

[d taylor]

Mark 11:24
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.../KJV

That's one of Gods quirks Brother, He wants us to have faith and believe first then it happens after that.

God did not write, I will give them evidence to convince them...He said Have Faith and all these things shall be added unto you. Have you ever seen a Miracle? I have. Several of them. When God gives us supernatural help, that is the evidence! And you will know it because God always confirms that it was really Him. But not in such a way that you can go down to the Lab or the Newsroom and prove it on demand! So while I do "know" the truth of this, it is up to others to Believe my Testimony. God want it all done on faith without having seen proof.

You get proof for yourself. How would you like to hear some Testimonies of mine? Miracles and stuff.



Now this is interesting. First lets remember that we live in a corrupted world where people can speak lies. But from what you say, a Believer can not change his beliefs by choice and abandon his faith. I disagree.

It's called an act of the will. I once had an incident of someone stealing some things from me that were very valuable. Oh I was hot. I was raging mad at him. But at the same time I am trying to walk with the Lord and I knew that, I must forgive them or, I will not be forgiven. But it was just too much value, too much underhandedness, too much humiliation and disappointment for me to honestly forgive him. But I knew I had to.

So I prayed and told God these things. And that I want to forgive them but have been unable to so I am making it an act of my will to declare that I have forgiven him for what he did to me. So I laid it at Jesus feet and trusted Him to change my heart. And the peace of God flooded me and I could then feel my forgiveness for the guy.

So it was a Praise the Lord moment. I felt like I should treat him as if it never happened (love him as myself)...so I did. A month later, he hit me again but even worse this time. He destroyed my forgiveness of him! Who cares about the worldly biracabrack but he put me in danger again. Because now I was seething at the man. I had no forgiveness for him. And yet, I don't want to die for it. So I did the only thng I could do. I made it an act of my will in prayer to make the choice to forgive him. Oh, It took longer this time but I have forgiven him again now.

So that's similar. I might suggest that people who choose not to believe once they already have, are bailing out for their favorite sins. So that would make them liars, right?




Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.../KJV

See? This says you must confess with your mouth. You have to believe it first. Then, thou shalt be saved. Not thou were saved, but shall be. The belief comes first. The original language of the word "Believe" has a connotation of an accompanying action.

When Peter asked Jesus if he could walk on the water to Him, Jesus said Yes! What if Peter had cose to stay on the boat and replied, I believe you Jesus. That is not belief! When Peter got out of the boat and committed his weight to the water, now that's Belief!.

Now none of that means that God doesnt know our hearts and mnds. Quite the contrary. He even knows how frail our belief system is. and He compensates for that with us. Grades us on the curve so to speak, lol. So I agree with you that God does not need for us to tell Him that we believe. He knows if we do or not. I believe that even a person such as a lady who has been in an accident and her child is in danger. Now this time, she is no christian, but her emotions run so high that her heart cries out to God for help and God receives her emotion as a prayer.

Have you ever been praying about something and praying slow and working it our in your mind just the right words to say and it makes you go silent and introspective. IOW, you go to your heart and meditate these trials before God.
Well I couldnt figure out how to pray it just right so I left off early.

But God received it all through your heart! When is a sigh a prayer? When it's fervant. We are def in agreement here.

Romans 10:9 is not addressing what an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

As for believers they operate from different levels of faith, some have more faith than others in God's word (The Bible)

 

[Fervent]

Mark 11:24
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.../KJV

That's one of Gods quirks Brother, He wants us to have faith and believe first then it happens after that.

God did not write, I will give them evidence to convince them...He said Have Faith and all these things shall be added unto you. Have you ever seen a Miracle? I have. Several of them. When God gives us supernatural help, that is the evidence! And you will know it because God always confirms that it was really Him. But not in such a way that you can go down to the Lab or the Newsroom and prove it on demand! So while I do "know" the truth of this, it is up to others to Believe my Testimony. God want it all done on faith without having seen proof.

You get proof for yourself. How would you like to hear some Testimonies of mine? Miracles and stuff.



Now this is interesting. First lets remember that we live in a corrupted world where people can speak lies. But from what you say, a Believer can not change his beliefs by choice and abandon his faith. I disagree.

It's called an act of the will. I once had an incident of someone stealing some things from me that were very valuable. Oh I was hot. I was raging mad at him. But at the same time I am trying to walk with the Lord and I knew that, I must forgive them or, I will not be forgiven. But it was just too much value, too much underhandedness, too much humiliation and disappointment for me to honestly forgive him. But I knew I had to.

So I prayed and told God these things. And that I want to forgive them but have been unable to so I am making it an act of my will to declare that I have forgiven him for what he did to me. So I laid it at Jesus feet and trusted Him to change my heart. And the peace of God flooded me and I could then feel my forgiveness for the guy.

So it was a Praise the Lord moment. I felt like I should treat him as if it never happened (love him as myself)...so I did. A month later, he hit me again but even worse this time. He destroyed my forgiveness of him! Who cares about the worldly biracabrack but he put me in danger again. Because now I was seething at the man. I had no forgiveness for him. And yet, I don't want to die for it. So I did the only thng I could do. I made it an act of my will in prayer to make the choice to forgive him. Oh, It took longer this time but I have forgiven him again now.

So that's similar. I might suggest that people who choose not to believe once they already have, are bailing out for their favorite sins. So that would make them liars, right?




Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.../KJV

See? This says you must confess with your mouth. You have to believe it first. Then, thou shalt be saved. Not thou were saved, but shall be. The belief comes first. The original language of the word "Believe" has a connotation of an accompanying action.

When Peter asked Jesus if he could walk on the water to Him, Jesus said Yes! What if Peter had cose to stay on the boat and replied, I believe you Jesus. That is not belief! When Peter got out of the boat and committed his weight to the water, now that's Belief!.

Now none of that means that God doesnt know our hearts and mnds. Quite the contrary. He even knows how frail our belief system is. and He compensates for that with us. Grades us on the curve so to speak, lol. So I agree with you that God does not need for us to tell Him that we believe. He knows if we do or not. I believe that even a person such as a lady who has been in an accident and her child is in danger. Now this time, she is no christian, but her emotions run so high that her heart cries out to God for help and God receives her emotion as a prayer.

Have you ever been praying about something and praying slow and working it our in your mind just the right words to say and it makes you go silent and introspective. IOW, you go to your heart and meditate these trials before God.
Well I couldnt figure out how to pray it just right so I left off early.

But God received it all through your heart! When is a sigh a prayer? When it's fervant. We are def in agreement here.

Faith isn't belief without evidence, or even prior to evidence. Faith is built upon our life experiences, and while we can change beliefs through an act of will there would be no reason for an unbeliever to will themselves to belief in God if the evidence were against Him. But we read in Romans 1:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Unbelief is a refusal to accept the evidence that is before them, a suppression of the truth. There are some areas where faith requires us to act before we have the picture, but it is because we have been given the evidence that God is good that such action is produced.

So the relationship between faith and evidence is not a simple "belief without evidence" or even "belief before evidence" but a continued acceptance of the evidence present in our lives of God's presence and goodness, even when there are cause to entertain momentary doubts.

 

[Divide]

Romans 10:9 is not addressing what an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

As for believers they operate from different levels of faith, some have more faith than others in God's word (The Bible)

I though it said then thou shalt be saved. So that does sound salvific.

Yep, different levels of faith is clearly seen in scripture.

Common faith Titus 1:4
Little faith Matthew 8:26, 14:31
Temporary faith! Luke 8:13
Strong faith Romans 4:20
Active faith. James 2:18, Mark 5:34
Great faith. Matthew 8:10
No faith. Mark 4:40

The Bible also talks about precious faith (2 Peter 1:1), growing faith (2 Thessalonians 1:3), rich faith (James 2:5), perfect faith (James 2:22), unfeigned faith and pure faith (1 Timothy 1:5), shipwrecked faith (1 Timothy 1:19), overcoming, victorious faith (1 John 5:4), and holy faith (Jude 1:20).

 

[Divide]

So the relationship between faith and evidence is not a simple "belief without evidence" or even "belief before evidence" but a continued acceptance of the evidence present in our lives of God's presence and goodness, even when there are cause to entertain momentary doubts.

That could certainly be a part of it. A continued acceptance of experience od evidence. Evidence is all over the place.. I remember when I was not walking with the Lord I could not see evidence for God anywhere. After I (was staring death in the face) and chose to believe and hope and cry out to Him and He saved me. The scope of my near death accident, and the fact that not only did I live, but I can walk on my own without any chair or crutches was an evidence to me that the Lord did step in and save me. I broke my back in two places and still walk on my own. Just not very far, lol. So that moment of crying out to God for help was obviously answered. I had four months in recovery to think about it. This happened. So when I realized that, I re-committed my life to Him. And began my walk with Him. Now. So what? right? But it was after this that changed my vision sort of. Now I can see God's fingerprints everywhere almost on this planet. The evidence is plainly seen.

It sure does seem like it is a belief first and then the prayer answered type of setup to me. The Lord has done many supernatural helps to me (miracles). Not part the red sea miracles but big enough for me! I bet I have 15 to 20 good testimonies of prayers answered and supernatural things happening at times.
He sent an Angel in disguise as a man to my Garage Sale after I prayed for help. The man (Ha!) talked the price up and spent 2400 dollars with me! (That's a great Testimony!). Another time He let me hide from the Police so that I wouldn't be arrested! They had three cars looking for me and couldn't see me! But I could see them, lol. Another time He had delivered to my house 2 pounds of gourmet coffee beans (That one is what I call the coolest testimony ever for me!) Another time, my son was about to be arrested for unpaid traffic tickets and I refused to let him be arrested and prayed immediately about it! I needed him and we were on our way to work. And the cop did find the warrant for him and he was not arrested! (That blew my sons mind!)
I'd be happy to share any of these if you want to hear them. Which one?



And after seeing so many miracles, do you believe that my arrogant carnal mind still tries to tell me that it didn't happen, Lol! I laugh at him now and tell him to shut up. I don't believe the doubting lies.