F
from scratch
Guest
So what is Paul talking about? I need a little more discussion and perhaps some Scipture wouldn't hurt.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
So what is Paul talking about? I need a little more discussion and perhaps some Scipture wouldn't hurt.i've reread jn 3 and don't see the comparison to david (besides, Jesus said "no one"), however, speaking of david, paul said:
Acts 2:29(NKJV)
29Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
notice that paul said "he" is dead and buried, not parts of him, and tell us where "he" is - in the grave!
and:
Acts 2:34(NKJV)
34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand,
seems pretty emphatic to me and consistent with jn 3:13, also makes the "of his own accord" just sound weird to me.
so, what is paul talking about?
Me too! I think something is missing.I think you're forgetting someone...
The home page for this site states Christ's ministry not complete at the cross which is contrary to the Scripture. As a basis for the site it is therefore it is in error on everything else.Here is something on the Rich man and Lazarus story and the influence of Hellenistic ideas in those times:
Rich Man and Lazarus; Parable of Jesus
Are you suggesting that I'm being dishonest? Show me instead of flaming me. You didn't provide discussion, just a personal attack. This is called ad hominem. Such an agrument proves there is no evidence to support your view. You can read about fallacious argumenets here - FallaciesJust a little honest research, please Scratch.
The home page for this site states Christ's ministry not complete at the cross which is contrary to the Scripture. As a basis for the site it is therefore it is in error on everything else.
Are you suggesting that I'm being dishonest? Show me instead of flaming me. You didn't provide discussion, just a personal attack. This is called ad hominem. Such an agrument proves there is no evidence to support your view. You can read about fallacious argumenets here - Fallacies
The home page for this site states Christ's ministry not complete at the cross which is contrary to the Scripture.
I looked at your link. It is an interesting website. Thanks for posting it, I want to save the link and dig deeper later on. I'm thinking of a fallacy where a person says one thing wrong, and his opponent jumps in and says "well you can't believe anything he says, because he was wrong about X". Do you know what kind of fallacy that one is?Are you suggesting that I'm being dishonest? Show me instead of flaming me. You didn't provide discussion, just a personal attack. This is called ad hominem. Such an agrument proves there is no evidence to support your view. You can read about fallacious argumenets here - Fallacies
Yea, it's called the scratchonian fallacy.I looked at your link. It is an interesting website. Thanks for posting it, I want to save the link and dig deeper later on. I'm thinking of a fallacy where a person says one thing wrong, and his opponent jumps in and says "well you can't believe anything he says, because he was wrong about X". Do you know what kind of fallacy that one is?
I think it might be the "sweeping generalization" fallacy.Yea, it's called the scratchonian fallacy.
so what is Jesus talking about?
John 3:13(NKJV)
13No one has ascended to heaven...
That's actually Genesis 2. The body was made from the dust of the earth. God breathed into man the breath of life, and man became a soul. The bible is rather straight forward about this.
Maybe God loves us so much that he doesn't want to destroy us, so He separates us from Himself instead. Everything good comes from God, even for non believers. When we have no other place to turn, we look toward Him. Without God it would be hell. That is hell, separation from God. Think about it, there are 2 kinds of pain, physical which will not last long because we will all die, and spiritual pain which endures forever without God.
Really? If one has no life -- in other words --- dead! He does not experience any of which you are talking about... He does not experience a spiritual pain as you put it...
Eccl 9.5 "the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing and wait for no more reward, the memory is forgotten"
Eccl 9:10 "For whatsoever you hands find to do it with your might, for there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom in the grave where you go"
David said Ps 115.17 "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence..."
So there is no pain, spiritual or physical after death!
Jesus said no one has ascended.i've reread jn 3 and don't see the comparison to david (besides, Jesus said "no one"), however, speaking of david, paul said:
yes, his body is in the grave, but his spirit (conciousness) is in heaven waiting with the other righteousActs 2:29(NKJV)
29Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
notice that paul said "he" is dead and buried, not parts of him, and tell us where "he" is - in the grave!
and:
there is no contradiction.Acts 2:34(NKJV)
34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand,
seems pretty emphatic to me and consistent with jn 3:13, also makes the "of his own accord" just sound weird to me.
so, what is paul talking about?
Sorry, Zeke, but you have it the wrong way round. Look at 1 corinthians 15 and you will see that its not the believers being brought from heaven, but from the grave, because God is the grave too, as he is omnipresent.
I was speaking of the two sides of the gulf in the afterlife,I'm sorry but I seem to be missing something here. I would very much like to see some Scriptural support for your opening statement.
How can heaven be not so good? If that is true why do people desire to go there? I can't find any Scriptural support for such a statement. So help me out here.
they cannot, that is why eternal torture is a fasle doctrine.How can one be annihilated and bear eternal torture at the same time?
oooo, nasty...what did I do to you??? lol.Do you understand the word annihilation? Or is it me and my dictionary?
all the dead are in heaven today.It means just what it says.... No one but Christ is in heaven even at this hour.... The first resurrection has not taken place yet... It will take place at the second coming of Christ....
makes perfect sense. see 1Thes4I hear oft those who think they go to heaven when they die and will be resurrected when Christ returns.... Makes no sense whatsoever...
who said they would?Why would one who has "put on immortality" now have to put back on "mortality"... See ... it holds no water...
i never mentioned flesh and blood.David when resurrected will be in the Kingdom of God...He will have put on immortality...he well not be flesh and blood
Now there is a good question. Congratulations!!!
We don't take on mortality at the resurrection. Neither did Jesus and we'll be like Him in physical form. I not as sure about the wicked. But I don't think they take back on themselves the flesh either.It means just what it says.... No one but Christ is in heaven even at this hour.... The first resurrection has not taken place yet... It will take place at the second coming of Christ....
I hear oft those who think they go to heaven when they die and will be resurrected when Christ returns.... Makes no sense whatsoever... Why would one who has "put on immortality" now have to put back on "mortality"... See ... it holds no water...
David when resurrected will be in the Kingdom of God...He will have put on immortality...he well not be flesh and blood
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?