WHAT is Daniel's Abomination?

[Semper-Fi]

WHAT is Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"?
WHERE does it happen and WHEN does it happen?

Which one?

 

[Zao is life]

I don't get why, in the book of Daniel, assuming you are correct about some or all of these things, that beginning from ch 7 through ch 12, that a time prior to the first coming would be more relevant than a time after the 1st coming? Past history, meaning before the first coming, would be necessary to show how that develops into future history. But, for the majority of it be focusing on past history, such as much of Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 11, and some of Daniel 12, mainly involving the days of A4E, makes little sense to me.

If you mean why most of an Old Testament prophecy has been fulfilled, instead of it being all or mostly about the end of this Age, then IMHO you are making the same mistake almost all Dispensationalists, and so many other people on this board make:

They take historic events written about in the Bible, and falsely assume that the prophecies that were written about those historic events before they occurred, are prophecies that were written about what is to take place at the end of this Age (just because the historic events became the type of what is to come).

Outside of Daniel, here's another example:

The prophecies below about the destruction of Babylon which were written before the destruction of Babylon and contain a great deal of metaphor are not primarily about the end of this Age - but they have a dual fulfillment in that they will be fulfilled by the destruction of both Babylon the Great and the beast/nations at the close of this Age:

Isaiah 34:8-10 (the type):
For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, the year to repay (Babylon) for the fighting against Zion. And its streams shall be turned into pitch, and its dust to brimstone, and its land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be put out night or day; its smoke shall go up forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none passes through it forever and forever.

Again, it's using metaphor to describe the destruction of the Empire of Babylon.

The anti-type: Destruction of the nations of those who worship the beast: Revelation 14:10-11:
And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

The biblical type: The prophesied destruction of ancient Babylon ("the nations" of the Babylonian Empire - the prophecies came to pass, and it is part of biblical history):

Isaiah 34:4 (the type: destruction of ancient Babylon - the verse is a metaphor for events surrounding it and should not be taken literally):
And all the host of the heavens shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled like a scroll; and all their host shall droop, as a leaf falls off from the vine, and as the falling from the fig tree.

The anti-type: Destruction of the nations: Revelation 6:13-14:
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

More prophecies about Babylon's destruction that has already occurred in history but will occur again when the nations are judged at the time of the return of Christ:

Isaiah 13:8-10:
.. they shall be afraid. Pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them. They shall be in pain like a woman who travails. They shall be amazed at one another, their faces like flames.
Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel and with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land waste; and He shall destroy its sinners out of it.
For the stars of the heavens and their constellations shall not give light; the sun shall be darkened in its going forth, and the moon shall not reflect its light.

Isaiah 13:13:
So I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall move out of its place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger.

The above prophecies that we read in Isiah were about the destruction of Babylon, which was still coming when Isaiah wrote, and the prophecies were fulfilled. It's now history, and part of biblical history. They were not primarily about the end of this Age - but they have a dual fulfillment - and the type (Babylon) helps us to identify the antitype (both Babylon the Great and the beast of the Revelation, which are two different entities).

Due to ignorance of (and hence a complete failure to recognize) the metaphor used in the above passages (metaphor is a typical language style used in apocalyptic literature), many Christians and Christian churches today believe that the above two passages (and many other passages besides) are talking about the same events at the same point in human history - i.e they believe that the prophecies are talking only about events that are still to come, even though they have already been fulfilled.

In this way, many Christians today fail to see that very often the same prophetic language that was used in the prophecies surrounding the first fulfillment of prophecies that have already been fulfilled in history, applies to the antitype also, i.e dual fulfillment.

Combining the prophecies surrounding historic events, that have already taken place, with future events that have not yet taken place, as though the prophecies are speaking about one and the same series of events, is nonetheless a complete fallacy, and has resulted in no small amount of confusion -

- because by the late 20th century the misunderstanding has turned many a computer mouse into software that highlights all sorts of historical events seen prophesied about in the Old Testament, and drags those historic events out of their historical context and proper place, and drops them into a folder titled "the return of Christ and the book of Revelation".

Daniel 8 & 11 has been fulfilled in history by A4E, and A4E became the chief biblical type of the Antichrist when he fulfilled what Daniel had prophesied - which is why we see dual fulfillment going on with those prophecies too (as we do in so many other prophecies surrounding events that have already been historically fulfilled).

But that does not mean that the Antichrist and A4E are the same person, or that the Antichrist is going to re-fulfill all the things that A4E fulfilled. A4E did not do all the things that the Antichrist is going to do, and vice-versa. But one and the same prophecy covers both men and both periods. So we have to understand that because Daniel 8 & 11 and the wars described there were fulfilled and done by A4E, they are not going to happen again. There are aspects of prophecy (the details) which are not fulfilled the same way. And some things (such as I mentioned in my earlier post) are fulfilled again - such as the Antichrist of A4E and the Antichrist of the end of this age attempting to force the saints to worship an idol in the temple. But the idol of the Antitype is not the same as that of the type - because the temple is not the same and the idol not the same either. The idol of the antitype is the man of sin/son of perdition himself in person, and the temple of the antitype is God's only New Testament Tabernacle.

 

[5thKingdom]

Which one?

LOL...
READ the OP.

.

 

[Semper-Fi]

LOL...
READ the OP.

.

WHAT is Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"?
WHERE does it happen and WHEN does it happen?

Which one?

In Daniel 12 an end-time Antiochus violently shatters the power
of the holy people. But in Daniel 8, he subtly comes to the
temple with flatteries.

In One the daily is taken away because of transgression, the other a
“daily” taken away because of righteousness—to the place of safety.

The first one in Daniel 8-11,24 this -happened around 167 b.c..

 

[Semper-Fi]

Did you know in Daniel 12:11, and Daniel 8:12 “sacrifice” is in
italics, it "was added' and should be left out of the translation?

This whole vision is about an evening and morning sacrifice in
the temple. The temple, today, is God’s Church (Ephesians 2:20-21).

The sacrifices were offered twice a day anciently. The daily was
to stop, because of sin, for 2300 evening and morning sacrifices.
So the duration is actually 1150 days.

Dan 8 is discussing transgression, truth being cast to the ground.
A satanic host practicing and prospering at destroying the daily
all from within God’s own Church.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Two physical Abominations, and a spiritual type abomination of desolation
that happens in the church, and an end-time type Antiochus.

Daniel’s prophecies about the first abomination of desolation that was
fulfilled in 167 BC when a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus IV
desecrated the temple in Jerusalem.

Antiochus called himself “Epiphanies”,“illustrious one” or “god manifest”.

He set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offering, and he
sacrificed a pig on the altar. Antiochus went even further in his
atrocities, slaughtering a great number of the Jews and selling others
into slavery. And he issued decrees forbidding circumcision and requiring
Jews to sacrifice to pagan gods and eat pig meat.

Judaea fled into the mountains to Petra, when Jerusalem
and the temple were destroyed.

 

[5thKingdom]

Two physical Abominations, and a spiritual type abomination of desolation
that happens in the church, and an end-time type Antiochus.

Why do you do that when the BIBLE calls this man
the Little Horn and the False Prophet and the Man of Sin?

He is THE endtime Anti-Christ
He is a MAN.. the chief emissary of Satan during the Great Tribulation.

How can you expect to understand TRUTH
when you cannot even accept WHO the Man of Sin represents?

Daniel’s prophecies about the first abomination of desolation that was
fulfilled in 167 BC when a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus IV
desecrated the temple in Jerusalem.

Daniel did not prophecy about TWO Abominations..
you are ADDING to the text

Antiochus called himself “Epiphanies”,“illustrious one” or “god manifest”.

So what?
That is NOT the fulfillment of the end-time Anti-Christ
so WHY do you continue to harp on it?

Judaea fled into the mountains to Petra, when Jerusalem
and the temple were destroyed.

And the Lord Returned?
NO... the Lord did NOT Return... proving that was NOT the fulfillment of Mat 24:15
Nice try.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

Did you know in Daniel 12:11, and Daniel 8:12 “sacrifice” is in
italics, it "was added' and should be left out of the translation?

I know there is a "daily sacrifice" during the Church Age.
Do you?


Please DEFINE what the phrase means
before pretending you are qualified or capable of offering an "informed opinion" on the matter

/

 

[Semper-Fi]

God taunted the other religions and all their gods in Isaiah 41:22.

Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen:
let them shew the former things, what they be, that we
may consider them, and know the latter end of them;
or declare us things for to come.

"declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times
the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand,
and I will do all my pleasure: Isaiah 46:10

Your "four kingdoms of heaven is like" theory from a parable has been
shown many times that Daniel talks about men ruling over men.

Your theory contradicts everything in Daniel and other books in the bible.

 

[5thKingdom]

Which one?

In Daniel 12 an end-time Antiochus violently shatters the power
of the holy people. But in Daniel 8, he subtly comes to the
temple with flatteries.

The end-time Anti-Christ does BOTH
He ENTERS with flatteries (do you know WHAT this means?)
Then he RULES over the Last Saints

Why in the world did you not understand he does BOTH?

The first one in Daniel 8-11,24 this -happened around 167 b.c..

There is only ONE Abomination of Desolation and it occurs during the Great Tribulation.
Sorry, Scripture is clear about this


/

 

[5thKingdom]

God taunted the other religions and all their gods in Isaiah 41:22.

Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen:
let them shew the former things, what they be, that we
may consider them, and know the latter end of them;
or declare us things for to come.

"declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times
the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand,
and I will do all my pleasure: Isaiah 46:10

Of course NONE OF THAT has to do with Daniel's Abomination...
but thanks for sharing


/

 

[Semper-Fi]

Of course NONE OF THAT has to do with Daniel's Abomination...
but thanks for sharing

It has everything to do about the future , foretold long in advance.
That you keep erasing from Daniels statue.

 

[5thKingdom]

Yet it seems to me that you are adding your own interpretation - in blue print - after the Scriptures.
For example you have said that "the daily sacrifice was taken away" means, "faith in the cross alone ended". That's not what Daniel says; that's what you have interpreted it to mean.

Well sir, that is simple
Just show ONE TIME where the explanation is incorrect... where it contradicts Scripture.
But you cannot do that. You cannot REFUTE a doctrine based on Scripture.
You can only DENY a doctrine based on you lack of understanding.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

It has everything to do about the future , foretold long in advance.
That you keep erasing from Daniels statue.

It has NOTHING to do with Daniel's Abomination.

BTW... the vision in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 is the SAME.
Only Daniel 2 shows the first (Pre-Flood) Kingdom in BOTH
the pre-fall and post-fall state.

What depth of understanding the Last Saints have.

/

 

[Semper-Fi]

What depth of understanding the Last Saints have.

Your arrogance precedes you sir, and is on full display.

 

[Semper-Fi]

I know there is a "daily sacrifice" during the Church Age.
Do you?

Please DEFINE what the phrase means
before pretending you are qualified or capable of offering an "informed opinion" on the matter

Since you dodged answering my question, I will go first I guess.
Some verses about the Temple/church, and the "Daily" sacrifices Defined.

“Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will,
O God. He taketh away the first, that he
may establish the second” Hebrews 10:9.
-

(KJV+)
Dan 12:11And from the timeH4480 H6256 "that"
the dailyH8548 "sacrifice" shall be taken away,

[from the time the daily shall be taken away,]
The Cambridge Bible reads,
[from the time the continual shall be taken away,]

Daniel 12:11, Daniel 8:12 “sacrifice” is in
italics and should be left out of the translation.

We all know Jesus one sacrifice is done,
there is no more physical sacrifices required.

“By the which will we are sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”

Today we are the Temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16
" Know ye not that ye are the [temple] of God,
and "that" the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

G3485
?a?´? , naos , nah-os'
From a primary word ?a?´? naio¯ (to dwell); a fane,
shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411.

1 Corinthians 3:17 templeG3485
1 Corinthians 6:19 templeG3485
2 Corinthians 6:16 templeG3485

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up
[a spiritual house], an holy priesthood,
to offer up [spiritual sacrifices], acceptable
to God by Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:5).

Spirit-led people can, or should see the
spiritual counterpart to the physical
sacrifices in the bible. You are a spiritual
sacrifice for God today (Romans 12:1).
-

2 Thessalonians 2:4 templeG3485

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above
all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the [temple]
of God, shewing himself that he is God.

John 2:19 templeG3485
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy
this [temple], and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21 templeG3485, [body]G4983
But he spake of the temple of his [body].

G4983
s??µa , so¯ma, so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole),
used in a very wide application, literally
or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

This is not the same as the Physical temples.

Mark 14:58
We heard him say, I will destroy this temple
that is made with hands, and within three days
I will build another made without hands.

A temple made with hands, to
another temple made without hands.
-

Matthew 21:12, the [temple] here different
"And Jesus went into the [temple] of God,
and cast out all them that sold and bought
in the temple,

G2411
??e??´?, hieron, hee-er-on'
Neuter of G2413; a sacred place, that is, the
entire precincts (whereas G3485 denotes
the central sanctuary itself) of the Temple
(at Jerusalem or elsewhere): - temple.

Mark 14:49 templeG2411
I was daily with you in the [temple] teaching

Matthew 24:1 templeG2411, [buildings]G3619
to shew him the [buildings] of the temple

G3619
?????d?µ?´, oikodome¯, oy-kod-om-ay'
Feminine (abstraction) of a compound of G3624
and the base of G1430; architecture, that is,
(concretely) a structure; figuratively confirmation:
- building, edify (-ication, -ing).
-

or Daniel 5:3 templeH1965
????, he^ykal, hay-kal'
(Chaldee); corresponding to H1964: - palace, temple.

H1964
????, he^yka^l, hay-kawl'
Probably from H3201 (in the sense of capacity);
a large public building, such as a palace or temple:
- palace, temple.
-

Christ is the High Priest of the spiritual temple,
the Church. The sacrificial system was re-
placed by Christ’s sacrifice (Hebrews 8:13).
(Hebrews 10:11-12). The Levitical priesthood
was removed and re-placed by the Melchisedec
priesthood (Hebrews 7).

“Now where remission of these is, there is
no more offering for sin” (Hebrews 10:18)

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which
he hath consecrated for us, through the veil,
that is to say, his flesh; And having an highpriest
over the house of God”. We have a new way
to live and a High Priest over God’s house.
-

There will be another temple during the mill,
Christ will be responsible for building the
Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40:1, 3, 14).

He does the measuring physically and
spiritually (Ezekiel 40:19, 23, 28, 32).

Christ is measuring the spiritual templeG3485
today (Revelation 11:1). Revelation 3:12
-

Ezekiel’s temple is called a house of prayer.
every place incense shall be offered -Malachi 1:11

Incense is a type of our prayers (Revelation 8:3).
God is addressing His own Church and its
spiritual problems and prayers.

The Lord filled the house” (Ezekiel 43:1-5,
6-7) God is going to dwell in our midst.

Christ will have His office in the holy of holies
during the Millennium. After that, God the
Father will comedown, and both Christ and
our Father will be located in new Jerusalem.
-

“Two women shall begrinding at the mill; the
one shall be taken, and the other left”
(Matthew 24:41). The Philadelphian woman
(or Church) is taken to a place of safety.
The Laodicean woman is left behind.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
-

“Blessed is that servant, whom his lord
when he cometh shall find [so doing]” .

They that [continue doing] the Work of God.
"If ye continue in my word John 8:31

Let brotherly love continue Hebrews 13:1
Continue in prayer and watch Colossians 4:2
continuing instant in prayer Romans 12:12
And they continued stedfastly Acts 2:42
all continued with one accord Acts 1:14

But continue thou in the things which
thou hast learned 2 Timothy 3:14

The Daily, or the Continual is the Work of
Gods church, that will never be destroyed.
"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"
Matthew 16:18.

Is this enough information to make an "informed opinion" on this matter I hope?

The big question is not Are we God’s church,
It’s “Are we doing the continual Work of God"?

Do you?

Christ built His Church

It goes back to the time Christ built His Church (Matthew 16:18) .
It continued from that Ephesus era to Smyrna, Pergamos,
Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea (Revelation 2 and 3).

Revelation 3:14-18 Laodicean - because thou
art lukewarm, will spue thee out of my mouth.

Revelation 3:7-13 Philadelphia era-there is still
an open door, and has the key of David.

 

[The Righterzpen]

@5thKingdom

Who's the "son of perdition". You know the Scripture tells us who the son of perdition is; don't you? (Hint: John 17:12)

Have you looked up in a concordance the term "last day"? Not the term "last days", as in plural; but "last day", as in singular.

How about the term "last trump"? Have you looked that up in a concordance?

How about Matthew 25:31-46? Have you read that portion of Scripture? What does it say about the resurrection of the dead?

How many times does Jesus "return"?

In Daniel 7:13 when the passage talks about the Son of man "coming in the clouds of heaven"; where does that passage say he's going?

When was the atonement complete? Why would "no flesh be saved" if the "great tribulation" isn't "cut short"? When was the atonement completed? (I.E. When was flesh saved?)

 

[Semper-Fi]

Of course NONE OF THAT has to do with Daniel's Abomination...
but thanks for sharing

It ties into subject for sure. Some prophecy is Dual yes?

"let them shew the former things,
what they be, that we may consider them,"
and know the latter end of them;

Is God going to taunt other gods, and not do what He said others could not do?

The first Abomination God showed in Daniel to a tee,
and that secular history has confirmed these details.

The first was a type of what would befall "Israel" in
the latter days, and the second "end time" Abomination.

Like the time of Christ, most though the end/or last days
was Apon them then, but it was a type also for latter days.

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
What depth of understanding the Last Saints have.

Your arrogance precedes you sir, and is on full display.

LOL...
You cannot REFUTE a word I said... and yet you pretend I am arrogant?

Secondly... the Bible PROMISES the TRUTH about Daniel's prophecies remained "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" at the "Time-of-the-End"...

WHY do you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES?

The fact that YOU do not understand means NOTHING...
the Bible only promises the Last Saints "shall understand".


/

 

[Lost Witness]

5thKingdom said:
What depth of understanding the Last Saints have.




LOL...
You cannot REFUTE a word I said... and yet you pretend I am arrogant?

Secondly... the Bible PROMISES the TRUTH about Daniel's prophecies remained "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" at the "Time-of-the-End"...

WHY do you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES?

The fact that YOU do not understand means NOTHING...
the Bible only promises the Last Saints "shall understand".


/

pretty sure that's why nobody is listening to you,
the fruit doesn't match the tree