WHAT is Daniel's Abomination?

[5thKingdom]

WHAT is Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"?
WHERE does it happen and WHEN does it happen?


I will answer those questions on this post - because
we are told the Last Saints "shall see" this event and
we are told they are SUPPOSED to understand.


Mat 24:15
When ye [Last Saints] therefore SHALL SEE the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


This is a different kind of Post
I am going to allow SCRIPTURE to do most of the Talking.


The first Scripture we examine about the Abomination is in Dan 11:31.
Now, throughout this post I will be providing understanding that remained "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" at the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


If someone thinks the "understanding" being shown in the passage is incorrect,
the Bible commands that Believer to search the Scriptures to either CONFIRM the Truth with harmony of Scriptures,
or REFUTE that doctrine by showing contradicting Scriptures. The Bible does not offer the Believer the luxury of simply
DENYING a doctrine without Biblical validation. In other words: Personal "feelings" cannot ever establish Biblical Truth.


Dan 11:31
And ARMS [the Ten "Kings/Horns"] shall stand on HIS [the Little Horn's] part,
and they [BOTH] shall pollute the sanctuary of strength [defile the 4th Kingdom],
and shall take away the daily sacrifice [of His Cross alone], and they shall place
the Abomination that maketh Desolate. [they give their Kingdom to the Beast]


I have presented DOCTRINE about the Abomination...
It would be wise to TEST this understanding with other passages.
Let's look at Daniel 7 & 8 to see whether we can find more information
on Daniel's Abomination:


Dan 8:9
And out of one of them [Ten "Kings/Horns"] came forth a Little Horn [the Anti-Christ], which waxed exceeding great, toward the south,
and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host
[some of the Ten "Kings/Horns"] and of the stars [and the Last Saints] to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[He overcame the Last Saints]


Dan 7:8
I considered the [Ten] Horns, and, behold, there came up among them another Little Horn,
before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: [the Last Saints are "plucked up by the roots"]
and, behold, in this [Little] Horn were eyes like the eyes of man [the Anti-Christ is a man], and a mouth speaking great things.


Dan 8:11
Yea, he [the Little Horn] magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [he showed himself that he was God - 2 Thess]
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, [faith in the Cross alone ended] and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[the fourth Kingdom was trodden down]


2Th 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Dan 8:12
And an Host [Ten "Kings/Horns"] was given him [was given TO him] against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
[because the Ten "Kings/Horns" sin of not trusting in the Cross alone] and it [the Fourth Beast] cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary
and the host to be trodden under foot? [what is the DURATION of the Abomination of Desolation?} And he said unto me,
Unto two thousand and three hundred days; [the Abomination lasts for 2300 literal days "evenings/mornings"]
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. [then the Last Saints will "see" the Abomination and "flee"]


Mat 24:15
When ye [Last Saints] therefore SHALL SEE the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


2Th 2:8
And then [when the Last Saint "shall see" the Abomination] shall that Wicked be revealed,
[the Anti-Christ can be NAMED] whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


So we have seen WHEN the Abomination happens - during Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom
And we have seen WHERE the Abomination happens - within the Ten "Kings/Horns"... representing the "Ten Virgins" of the Great Tribulation...
these are the LAST "wheat and tares", the PEOPLE who are living during the Revelation Beast. And we have seen WHAT the Abomination was...
the Saints abandoning faith in the Cross alone and being RULED by the Anti-Christ as he "sits in the Temple" showing himself to be God...


But the BEST picture of Daniel's Abomination is in Revelation 17:17
In verses 12-13 we see the WHO and WHEN and WHERE... and we see the WHAT
as the Last Saints "shall give their power and strength to the Beast".
THAT is the Abomination of Desolation.


Rev 17:12-13
And the TEN HORNS which thou sawest are TEN KINGS, which have received no kingdom as yet; [when John wrote]
but [they] receive power as kings one hour with the Beast. [during the Fourth Kingdom] These have one mind,
and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


Then in verse 17 we see the BEST description of Daniel's Abomination
as the Last Saints "give their Kingdom to the Revelation Beast"
THAT is Daniel's Abomination


Rev 17:17
For God hath put in their [the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins"] hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree,
and give their Kingdom unto the Beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


---------------


Daniel's Abomination of Desolation is shown from different perspectives of the Saints being RULED
by the Anti-Christ during Daniel's Fourth Beast (Revelation Beast and Great Tribulation Kingdom)
but the BEST description is the Saints abandon faith in the Blood of Christ alone...
and they then "give their Kingdom to the Beast".


So now we "see" the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and WHAT
of Daniel's Abomination of Desolation finally revealed.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

70 views without a single comment?

 

[Jipsah]

Your doctrine is rubbish.

 

[5thKingdom]

Your doctrine is rubbish.

LOL

You cannot REFUTE a single word I said with Scripture
so you pretend that DENIAL is the same... wrong.

The process for Saints has been the same for 2000 years.
A Believer presents a doctrine. Other Believers are COMMANDED
to search the Scriptures to either confirm that doctrine harmonizes with
ALL RELATED passages... or to refute that doctrine with contrary passages.

The Bible does NOT allow a Believer to just dismiss a doctrine because he does not understand
or he does not LIKE the doctrine - or the fact it's above his understanding.

So YOU sir are not following the Biblical command
OR the process the Church has used since the days of the Apostles.
You are known by your "fruit" sir.

/

 

[disciple Clint]

WHAT is Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"?
WHERE does it happen and WHEN does it happen?


I will answer those questions on this post - because
we are told the Last Saints "shall see" this event and
we are told they are SUPPOSED to understand.


Mat 24:15
When ye [Last Saints] therefore SHALL SEE the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


This is a different kind of Post
I am going to allow SCRIPTURE to do most of the Talking.


The first Scripture we examine about the Abomination is in Dan 11:31.
Now, throughout this post I will be providing understanding that remained "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" at the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


If someone thinks the "understanding" being shown in the passage is incorrect,
the Bible commands that Believer to search the Scriptures to either CONFIRM the Truth with harmony of Scriptures,
or REFUTE that doctrine by showing contradicting Scriptures. The Bible does not offer the Believer the luxury of simply
DENYING a doctrine without Biblical validation. In other words: Personal "feelings" cannot ever establish Biblical Truth.


Dan 11:31
And ARMS [the Ten "Kings/Horns"] shall stand on HIS [the Little Horn's] part,
and they [BOTH] shall pollute the sanctuary of strength [defile the 4th Kingdom],
and shall take away the daily sacrifice [of His Cross alone], and they shall place
the Abomination that maketh Desolate. [they give their Kingdom to the Beast]


I have presented DOCTRINE about the Abomination...
It would be wise to TEST this understanding with other passages.
Let's look at Daniel 7 & 8 to see whether we can find more information
on Daniel's Abomination:


Dan 8:9
And out of one of them [Ten "Kings/Horns"] came forth a Little Horn [the Anti-Christ], which waxed exceeding great, toward the south,
and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host
[some of the Ten "Kings/Horns"] and of the stars [and the Last Saints] to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[He overcame the Last Saints]


Dan 7:8
I considered the [Ten] Horns, and, behold, there came up among them another Little Horn,
before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: [the Last Saints are "plucked up by the roots"]
and, behold, in this [Little] Horn were eyes like the eyes of man [the Anti-Christ is a man], and a mouth speaking great things.


Dan 8:11
Yea, he [the Little Horn] magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [he showed himself that he was God - 2 Thess]
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, [faith in the Cross alone ended] and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[the fourth Kingdom was trodden down]


2Th 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Dan 8:12
And an Host [Ten "Kings/Horns"] was given him [was given TO him] against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
[because the Ten "Kings/Horns" sin of not trusting in the Cross alone] and it [the Fourth Beast] cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary
and the host to be trodden under foot? [what is the DURATION of the Abomination of Desolation?} And he said unto me,
Unto two thousand and three hundred days; [the Abomination lasts for 2300 literal days "evenings/mornings"]
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. [then the Last Saints will "see" the Abomination and "flee"]


Mat 24:15
When ye [Last Saints] therefore SHALL SEE the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


2Th 2:8
And then [when the Last Saint "shall see" the Abomination] shall that Wicked be revealed,
[the Anti-Christ can be NAMED] whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


So we have seen WHEN the Abomination happens - during Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom
And we have seen WHERE the Abomination happens - within the Ten "Kings/Horns"... representing the "Ten Virgins" of the Great Tribulation...
these are the LAST "wheat and tares", the PEOPLE who are living during the Revelation Beast. And we have seen WHAT the Abomination was...
the Saints abandoning faith in the Cross alone and being RULED by the Anti-Christ as he "sits in the Temple" showing himself to be God...


But the BEST picture of Daniel's Abomination is in Revelation 17:17
In verses 12-13 we see the WHO and WHEN and WHERE... and we see the WHAT
as the Last Saints "shall give their power and strength to the Beast".
THAT is the Abomination of Desolation.


Rev 17:12-13
And the TEN HORNS which thou sawest are TEN KINGS, which have received no kingdom as yet; [when John wrote]
but [they] receive power as kings one hour with the Beast. [during the Fourth Kingdom] These have one mind,
and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


Then in verse 17 we see the BEST description of Daniel's Abomination
as the Last Saints "give their Kingdom to the Revelation Beast"
THAT is Daniel's Abomination


Rev 17:17
For God hath put in their [the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins"] hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree,
and give their Kingdom unto the Beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


---------------


Daniel's Abomination of Desolation is shown from different perspectives of the Saints being RULED
by the Anti-Christ during Daniel's Fourth Beast (Revelation Beast and Great Tribulation Kingdom)
but the BEST description is the Saints abandon faith in the Blood of Christ alone...
and they then "give their Kingdom to the Beast".


So now we "see" the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and WHAT
of Daniel's Abomination of Desolation finally revealed.


/

What is the abomination of desolation? | GotQuestions.org

What is the abomination of desolation? Will the antichrist defile the end times Temple in Jerusalem? Didn't Antiochus Epiphanes perform the abomination of desolation in the second century BC?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[5thKingdom]

What is the abomination of desolation? | GotQuestions.org

What is the abomination of desolation? Will the antichrist defile the end times Temple in Jerusalem? Didn't Antiochus Epiphanes perform the abomination of desolation in the second century BC?

www.gotquestions.org

(1) First... there is a process establish 2000 years ago.
A Believer presents a doctrine. The Bible COMMANDS other Believers to search the Scriptures
to either confirm that doctrine (with harmony of ALL RELATED passages) or to refute the doctrine with contradictory passage.


You have done neither.
And you offer a link (not knowing if it offers Biblically valid interpretations)
And that is all you do. The Bible require MUCH more from you...
MUCH more from any "servant" of Christ.


(2) Secondly, the Bible PROMISES the TRUTH about Daniel's Beasts AND the Abomination of Desolation
would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" (and preach)
the TRUTH during a period named the "Time-of-the-End". [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


This means that EVERY old interpretation of Daniel's Abomination
MUST BE WRONG because it was developed during a period the Bible PROMISES
the Truth would remain "sealed".


It is as simple as that.
Only the Last Saints "shall understand" the Truth about Daniel's Abomination.
That is what the Gospel says (since Daniel wrote)... do you REJECT Daniel 12
to protect your beloved eschatology? You have no BIBLICAL reason to
DENY the Biblically valid understanding of the OP


/

 

[Strong in Him]

WHAT is Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"?
WHERE does it happen and WHEN does it happen?


I will answer those questions on this post - because
we are told the Last Saints "shall see" this event and
we are told they are SUPPOSED to understand.


Mat 24:15
When ye [Last Saints] therefore SHALL SEE the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Why are you assuming that Jesus is addressing the last saints in this verse, and not the 12 disciples, to whom he was talking?

This is a different kind of Post
I am going to allow SCRIPTURE to do most of the Talking.

Yet it seems to me that you are adding your own interpretation - in blue print - after the Scriptures.
For example you have said that "the daily sacrifice was taken away" means, "faith in the cross alone ended". That's not what Daniel says; that's what you have interpreted it to mean.

 

[5thKingdom]

Why are you assuming that Jesus is addressing the last saints in this verse, and not the 12 disciples, to whom he was talking?

No.... I am not ASSUMING anything. Read the text:
Jesus is talking about the Last Saints that "shall see" the Abomination
and the Saints that "shall see ALL these things"... the FULFILLMENT of all the prophecies He revealed.


Saints living in 50AD or 500 AD or 1000AD or 1500AD
would NEVER see the fulfillment of ALL Great Tribulation "signs" (events)
ONLY the Last Saints would:


Since the Last Saints are living at the Last Trump and the resurrection of the dead, that means they
were able to be eyewitnesses to the historical fulfillment of ALL prophecies about the “Time-of-the-End”.
In fact, that’s exactly what Jesus promised within His end-time prophecies in Matthew chapters 24 and 25.
Jesus said the Last Saints “shall see ALL these things”, meaning historical fulfillment of ALL His prophecies.
The Last Saints “shall see” the historical fulfillment of all Great Tribulation and Revelation prophecies, since the
historical fulfillment of those prophecies all occur sometime before the Last Saints are “changed” at the Last Trump.


Mat 24:15
When ye [Last Saints] therefore SHALL SEE the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


Mat 24:33
So likewise ye [Last Saints], when YE SHALL SEE ALL THESE THINGS,
[He just prophesied] know that it [His Return] is near, even at the doors.


This means the Last Saints “shall see” the historical fulfillment of Daniel’s “Abomination of Desolation” [Mat 24:15].
They “shall see” the historical fulfillment of all prophecies about the Great Tribulation “Kingdom of Heaven” [Mat 25:1],
including historical fulfillment of events “immediately after the Tribulation of those days” [Mat 24:29]. These Last Saints
are called the “Wise Virgins” [Mat 25:1-13] and they see the historical fulfillment of “Time-of-the-End” events which
were prophesied about themselves … events prophesied as happening while the Last Saints are living on earth.


Luk 21:28
And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh.


Because the Last Saints “shall see all these things”, they are able to explain the fulfillment of all the prophecies
about Daniel’s Fourth Kingdom – the Revelation Beast – or the Great Tribulation “Kingdom of Heaven” [Mat 25:1].
They can explain, with great specificity, details about the fulfillment of all prophecies on Satan’s “Little Season”.
Their testimony (Gospel) provides NEW details on the who/what/when/where of “Time-of-the-End” prophecies.


So we see clearly the CONTEXT of the passage is with the Great Tribulation Saints AFTER the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved)
and not the Great Commission Saints BEFORE the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]

Yet it seems to me that you are adding your own interpretation - in blue print - after the Scriptures.

Of course it SEEMS that way to you...
because you do not understand the CONTEXT of the passages nor the MEANING of them.
However... you cannot use any other words than those inserted because then EXPLAIN what the text does not.

Here is a challenge to you
Show ONE VERSE where the inserted words do NOT explain the meaning of the text.
You cannot do it... because I KNOW what I am talking about and it HARMONIZES with all related Scripture.

For example you have said that "the daily sacrifice was taken away" means, "faith in the cross alone ended". That's not what Daniel says; that's what you have interpreted it to mean.

Is that so?
Then tell me sir WHAT did Daniel say that contradicts anything I wrote.
You see... making an accusation is MEANINGLESS, you must BACK that accusation with SCRIPTURE...
Can you do that? I will wait.

/

 

[DavidPT]

So now we "see" the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and WHAT
of Daniel's Abomination of Desolation finally revealed.


/

What do you mean finally revealed? You give yourself way too much credit, which comes across somewhat arrogant, as if no one else before you has ever come to any of the conclusions that you do here. For 10 years now, or maybe even 20 years, I already connected some of these dots pretty much the same way you are doing here. And this is before I was even aware of you. And not only me, others as well, meaning in regards to connecting some of these dots pretty much the same way you are doing here.

 

[Strong in Him]

No.... I am not ASSUMING anything. Read the text.

Ok.
Matthew 24:15
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel ..."
Who is the "YOU"? Who was he talking to?
Where do the words "last saints" appear in that verse?

You have put the words "last saints" into that verse. You said "read the text" - I have; "last saints" does not appear.

Then tell me sir WHAT did Daniel say that contradicts anything I wrote.
You see... making an accusation is MEANINGLESS, you must BACK that accusation with SCRIPTURE...
Can you do that? I will wait.

a) I'm not a "sir".
b) I have no intention of arguing eschatology. I was browsing the forum when I noticed the thread. My only point was to say that you tell us that your thread was based on Scripture and then insert words and phrases that are not in Scripture. The words "the last saints" do not appear in Matt 24:15.
c) Even if I was able to follow your argument and was interested in the subject, reading threads where the text is in several colours and either underlined, bolded, written in caps, or a mixture of the three is a turn off for me.
d) You can wait all you want; I've made my point.

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
So now we "see" the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and WHAT
of Daniel's Abomination of Desolation finally revealed.


What do you mean finally revealed?


I mean this TRUTH was not "revealed" before.
Have you EVER seen this information?


/

 

[5thKingdom]

You give yourself way too much credit,

Then simply REFUTE my words with Scripture... can you do that"
I have shown harmony of ALL RELATED passages.
If you can REFUTE... please do so.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

which comes across somewhat arrogant, as if no one else before you has ever come to any of the conclusions that you do here.

In fact, NOBODY (except the Last Saints) has EVER presented these Truths.


Apparently you forget the Bible PROMISES [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10] that the TRUTH about Daniel's prophecies
would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" from all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" the Truth
at the "Time-of-the-End"


In other words...
It has ALWAYS been PART of the Gospel of the Bible (at least since Daniel wrote)
that Biblical TRUTH about Daniel's prophecies would NEVER BE KNOWN
until the Last Saints "shall understand" (and preach) the Truth


You may not LIKE that this was PART of the Gospel of the Bible...
but if clearly was.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

For 10 years now, or maybe even 20 years, I already connected some of these dots pretty much the same way you are doing here. And this is before I was even aware of you.

LOL... so you understood the TRUTH about WHAT Daniel's "Beasts" represent...
when you cannot even DEFINE the Word?


And you understood WHAT Daniel's "Abomination" represented and what the "Image" represents
and what the "Mark" represents... when you cannot even DEFINE the words?


Please, you embarrass yourself.
I mean that with all due respect - it is self evident.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

Ok.
Matthew 24:15
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel ..."
Who is the "YOU"? Who was he talking to?

The YOU represent the Saints that "shall see" the Abomination.
Since the Abomination happens during the Great Tribulation Kingdom...
we can know absolutely "YOU" represents the Last Saints that "shall see" the event...
and not Saints living in 50AD or 500AD or 1000AD or 1500AD who are long dead.

This is not hard.

Where do the words "last saints" appear in that verse?

Again, you only need to know the CONTEXT of the text is addressing the Saints living just before His Return.
And the Saints living just before His Return are the Last Saints.

This is not hard.

You have put the words "last saints" into that verse. You said "read the text" - I have; "last saints" does not appear.

I put the words "last Saints" into the verse
because the verse is talking about the Saints living at His Return.
That can ONLY be the "Last Saints".

This is not hard.

a) I'm not a "sir".

Well I apologize.
I hope you are not "offended"

d) You can wait all you want; I've made my point.

NO, you made NO "point"
Re-read my response.


.

 

[DavidPT]

Then simply REFUTE my words with Scripture... can you do that"
I have shown harmony of ALL RELATED passages.
If you can REFUTE... please do so.

/

What am I trying to refute, other than what you claimed about these things being finally revealed, if I myself am connecting some of those same dots the way you are? You are not even making sense here. I'm not trying to refute anything in your post other than that, so, I'm just pointing out, the fact you stated---So now we "see" the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and WHAT
of Daniel's Abomination of Desolation finally revealed."---'finally' being the keyword. Which then implies, that until you made this thread, none of these things have ever been revealed to anyone else, and that it is you alone revealing these things to us. Thus why I indicated that comes across as somewhat arrogant, as if, that without you none of the rest of us can connect some of these dots like you are.

 

[Strong in Him]

The YOU represent the Saints that "shall see" the Abomination.

My point was that the Scripture does not say that.
You quoted Matt 24:15, and where the text says "you", you put, in brackets, the last saints.
Since the text does not say "the last saints" and you claimed that your thread was only based on Scripture, I wondered where the words had come from. As far as I can see, they are only your interpretation.

Well I apologize.
I hope you are not "offended"

Not at all.

NO, you made NO "point"
Re-read my response.

My point was that you said you were only arguing from Scripture, and yet you used some words that aren't in Scripture.
In Matt 24 Jesus is talking to his 12 closest disciples - he says nothing about last saints.
So my question was, "why do you assume that the word "you" applies to last saints?" Why doesn't the word "you" apply to the people that Jesus was talking to - i.e the 12?

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
Then simply REFUTE my words with Scripture... can you do that"
I have shown harmony of ALL RELATED passages.
If you can REFUTE... please do so.

What am I trying to refute, other than what you claimed about these things being finally revealed, if I myself am connecting some of those same dots the way you are?

I do not understand what you are trying to say

You are not even making sense here.

WHAT exactly do you think does not make sense?
Your comment is nonsense unless/until you SHOW the comment you think does not make sense.

I'm not trying to refute anything in your post other than that,

If you are not trying to refute what I said... why do you disagree?

so, I'm just pointing out, the fact you stated---So now we "see" the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and WHAT
of Daniel's Abomination of Desolation finally revealed."---

But I did CLEARLY show the WHO, WHEN, WHERE and WHAT...
If you disagree then show SCRIPTURE that refutes what I said.
Can you do that?

'finally' being the keyword.

David, please remember the BIBLE PROMISES the Truth about the the Abomination
remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" the Truth
during the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]

THAT is what "finally" means.

Which then implies, that until you made this thread, none of these things have ever been revealed to anyone else,

No, that is ridiculous.
The TRUTH about Daniel's Abomination had nothing to do with this thread.
It has to do when the Last Saints "shall understand" the Truth at the "Time-of-the-End"


This is not NEW INFORMATION to me...
but it is to you.

and that it is you alone revealing these things to us. Thus why I indicated that comes across as somewhat arrogant, as if, that without you none of the rest of us can connect some of these dots like you are.

David, David, David...
NOBODY throughout HISTORY has EVER understood the TRUTH about Daniel's Abomination...
that is what the BIBLE PROMISES [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10] and that is what history has shown.


If you want to contest this fact..
Simply show me ONE TIME in the History of Man
when Daniel's Abomination was shown as I presented with (many) Scriptures.


I have shown you the "harmony of Scriptures" about Daniel's Abomination.
Do not pretend someone has developed this "understanding" BEFORE
the "Time-of-the-End"... that would be a contradition of Scripture.


And WHY exactly are you saying someone has shown this "understanding" before?
You have ZERO examples to support you comment.
That is nonsensical.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
The YOU represent the Saints that "shall see" the Abomination

My point was that the Scripture does not say that.

Sir, the EVENTS ("signs") that are SEEN occur during the Great Tribulation AFTER the Last Saints is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]
and NOT during the Great Commission of the Church Age BEFORE the Last Saint is saved [Mat 28:18-20]

That is the CONTEXT of these verses. If you cannot discern the CONTEXT of a passage then
you have no hope of understanding the MEANING of the passage:


Mat 24:15 When ye [Saints in the Great Tribulation... the Last Saints] therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, [when ye shall see the FULFILLMENT of Great Tribulation prophecies]
know that it [know that His Return] is near, even at the doors.


The CONTEXT of these passage is the Saints that are living when the Lord Returns.
that means they are the LAST SAINTS.


This is not hard.

My point was that you said you were only arguing from Scripture, and yet you used some words that aren't in Scripture.

Sir... what Saints are living when the Lord Returns?
It is the LAST SAINTS. We do not need the text to say that
because it is self-evident.

So my question was, "why do you assume that the word "you" applies to last saints?"

I have already explained that above

Why doesn't the word "you" apply to the people that Jesus was talking to - i.e the 12?

Because the Saints Jesus was talking to NEVER see His Return... they were long dead.
Jesus is talking about Saints that "shall see" the "signs" of His Return.

That could not be Saints living in 50AD or 500AD or 1000AD or 1500AD...
It could ONLY be the Last Saints.
This is not hard.


/

 

[Strong in Him]

5thKingdom said:
The YOU represent the Saints that "shall see" the Abomination




Sir, the EVENTS ("signs") that are SEEN occur during the Great Tribulation AFTER the Last Saints is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]
and NOT during the Great Commission of the Church Age BEFORE the Last Saint is saved [Mat 28:18-20]

I know that this is the eschatology forum, but I'm not discussing eschatology - I'm discussing Scripture.

In Matt 24:15 Jesus is talking to his 12 disciples, and says "YOU". You have interpreted that "you" to mean "last saints." You say it is self evident, but it is not. When Jesus' disciples heard him say "you" they would have understood that it meant them. Those who read the words some years later may have understood the same thing. The words "last saints" does NOT appear in Matt 24. And in any case, every generation could say that they were the last saints. There were people who were talking about the 2nd coming in the 1800's - I'm quite sure they believed they were the last saints. The Apostles themselves believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. "Last saints" is not something that appears in the text. And if you are saying that your thread is discussing Scripture, you need to quote Scripture, alone, and let it speak for itself, and not add interpretations.

Likewise, there is a verse in Daniel which talks about the daily sacrifice ending - and you have interpreted that to refer to the cross. There is NO mention of the cross in Daniel.
Either you don't understand, or you don't want to concede, these points.
Either way, I have made them, and I am now leaving the debate.

And by the way, you apologised for calling me sir, then you did it twice more. Don't worry about it - but just saying.