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What is Charismatic Neo-Gnosticism and Why Should it Be Resisted?

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SavedByGrace3

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I see no-one doing what you suggest.
What "new revelation" is contrary to the scripture?
Who is presenting this and where?
As I pointed out above "revelation knowledge" is not new revelation. It is simply making the spiritual truth found in scripture real to our hearts. There is nothing new. It is not newness of truth... it is only where the old truth is going... into our spirits.
The "new revelation" as you define it... is not the issue.
You just do not like what some of us see in the scripture and so want to trip off this phrase "revelation knowledge" and try and make it out to be something it is not. It is NOT new knowledge that is outside scripture... it is the just the knowledge of scripture being inserted into the heart by the process of revelation. Revelation knowledge is a "process" not "content".

JimfromOhio said:
After watching threads in P/C, I just simply seeing dangers of people are willing to go blindly accepting "revelation knowledge." The issue between the rhema vs. logos doctrines. Logos is said to be the "written Word of God," while rhema is considered the "spoken Word of God." I am seeing experience and person's revelations are increasingly taking precedence over the written Word of God. I am fully aware (not sure if some of you are) that Satan will use any tactics to distract me from God including his giving us revelations. (See Ephesians 6:10-20). My Revelations are important when the Holy Spirit is speaking to me. I am careful not to be gullible, unsuspecting and naive when I receive revelations. When reading the Word of God, the Spirit illuminates our understanding of God's Word so I am transformed by God's principles as He applies them to my life.

When I was looking for a home church, P/C churches were on my list but now, watching these threads, I am just seeing lack of spiritual control and spiritual discernments. Like I said... everyone's testimonies here have been great and I have learned alot. Its a sad and rude awakening.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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JimfromOhio said:
Never mind answering my question.... I just need to stop lurking P/C threads....bye !!
I thought it was poof?
 
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JimB

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Leimeng said:
~ Let us first ask if you have some working definitions of gnosticism. (There are several actually.)
~ Do you have a gnostic definition of God?
~ Do you have a gnostic definition of man?
~ Do you have a gnostic definition of sin?
~ I bet one would be surprised at what gnosticism is and what it teaches.
~ I further think that if one actually knew what gnosticism was and what it teachers, one would not be so willing to parrot false accusations from false teachers about Kenyon et. al.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)
Then you can do us all a service by clearing up our muddled definition of Gnosticism. As a person with a degree in history who has taught a course church history at a bible college level, I would be interested in hearing what you think Gnosticism was/is, Leimeng. Please cite references.

~Jim



And who is Flatulo Ergo Sum?

 
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JimB

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Jim M said:
Excellent, JimO. (I hope you were listening, Andrew).


Andrew said:
[/size][/font][/color]

nah.


You have to listen to learn, Andrew. Unless, of course, you receive your knowledge only by revelation (or osmosis).

~Jim



 
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Andyman_1970

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probinson said:
James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

I know, I know, I've probably taken this out of context. Again. When will I learn.

LOL.............not so much context, but the meaning of the word. Wisdom doesn't mean "knowledge" it means the how one uses said knowledge.

Interestingly enough some Mormon missionaries that came by my house a few weeks ago used this same verse to indicate that God would reveal to me the "truth" of the Book of Mormon........ :doh:
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Andyman_1970 said:
LOL.............not so much context, but the meaning of the word. Wisdom doesn't mean "knowledge" it means the how one uses said knowledge.

Interestingly enough some Mormon missionaries that came by my house a few weeks ago used this same verse to indicate that God would reveal to me the "truth" of the Book of Mormon........ :doh:
Ah yes....
Jedi mind tricks.
A little mis-direction. A little slight of hand...
and we have a floating lady!
 
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Andyman_1970

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Jim M said:
Some P/C/W's believe that it is okay to reject objective truth for subjective revelation - in particular, those who claim that “the Lord/Holy Spirit reveals to me the truth of scripture” as though all the work done by those who have gone before is without merit. Such otherwise godly believers are merely returning to the first heresy of the church, Gnosticism, all dressed up and disguised in modern clothes and new jargon, but which was resisted and overcame long ago by no less than the Apostles (in particular John, but also Paul) and the teachers who followed them. Still Gnosticism exists among us, finding resurgence in modern times as Neo-Gnosticism, which has infiltrated even the ranks of the Spirit-filled Charismatic Movement.

:amen:
 
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Andyman_1970

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andry said:
RP....we just need to distinguish what the differences are I think. Of late, there are posters here - no names - that have state they have received a 'word' - or a 'revelation' - from God and admittedly said their 'word' did not have to conform with Scripture, because God told them. The fact that their 'word' did not agree with Scripture was beside the point to them, and that we - those of us who haven't received this 'word' - had better listen if we wanted to pursue God.

So while there are those of us who do not necessarily encourage or even believe in the revelations of the Holy Spirit for today and rely totally on the written Word, there is also the other extreme that rely solely on 'a word from the Holy Spirit' and not the written Word as confirmation.

Once again well said brotha................ :thumbsup:
 
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churchlady

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didaskalos said:
I see no-one doing what you suggest.
What "new revelation" is contrary to the scripture?
Who is presenting this and where?
As I pointed out above "revelation knowledge" is not new revelation. It is simply making the spiritual truth found in scripture real to our hearts. There is nothing new. It is not newness of truth... it is only where the old truth is going... into our spirits.
The "new revelation" as you define it... is not the issue.
You just do not like what some of us see in the scripture and so want to trip off this phrase "revelation knowledge" and try and make it out to be something it is not. It is NOT new knowledge that is outside scripture... it is the just the knowledge of scripture being inserted into the heart by the process of revelation. Revelation knowledge is a "process" not "content".

Notice that they don't reply to your post, Dids? How can they?
 
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JimB

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didaskalos said:
I see no-one doing what you suggest.
What "new revelation" is contrary to the scripture?
Who is presenting this and where?
As I pointed out above "revelation knowledge" is not new revelation. It is simply making the spiritual truth found in scripture real to our hearts. There is nothing new. It is not newness of truth... it is only where the old truth is going... into our spirits.
The "new revelation" as you define it... is not the issue.
You just do not like what some of us see in the scripture and so want to trip off this phrase "revelation knowledge" and try and make it out to be something it is not. It is NOT new knowledge that is outside scripture... it is the just the knowledge of scripture being inserted into the heart by the process of revelation. Revelation knowledge is a "process" not "content".
Dids,

Did somebody say something about “new revelation”? If so, I missed it.

Speaking only for myself, it is not new revelation I am concerned about, but the OP is principally addressed to those who, in a previous thread (Context, I believe) said (in essence) that they interpreted scripture, not by what others (i.e., pastors, teachers, etc,) told them but by what “the Lord revealed” to them.

Now, I do not discount seeking the Lord for the answer to a perplexing text – I have done that myself - but neither do I diminish the wealth of scholarship that has preceded us and given us what we know as Christian orthodoxy.

Nor do I discount the guidance of the Holy Spirit in our personal lives and decisions, but I do not rely on such “revelations” without checking it out against the Word. This is one of the ways I try the spirits to see if they are of God and prove all things so that I can hold fast that which is true.

Surely, you see nothing wrong with that. Or do you?

~Jim

 
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SavedByGrace3

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Jim M said:
Dids,

Did somebody say something about “new revelation”? If so, I missed it.
Just glancing up the page a bit...

"...I am seeing experience and person's revelations are increasingly taking precedence over the written Word of God. I am fully aware (not sure if some of you are) that Satan will use any tactics to distract me from God including his giving us revelations...."



Speaking only for myself, it is not new revelation I am concerned about, but the OP is principally addressed to those who, in a previous thread (Context, I believe) said (in essence) that they interpreted scripture, not by what others (i.e., pastors, teachers, etc,) told them but by what “the Lord revealed” to them.
I think all of us do this. We are helpless to do otherwise. You and I both can line up a dozen teachers and they all will have different slants and spins on "difficult" passages(like the 1 Cor 11 passage re: the body of the Lord). Which of these do we choose? I find that I have bits and pieces of all. I doubt you agree 100% with anyone. I know I do not. And in the end, whose responsible for what you accept? Only you.

Now, I do not discount seeking the Lord for the answer to a perplexing text – I have done that myself - but neither do I diminish the wealth of scholarship that has preceded us and given us what we know as Christian orthodoxy.
I guess I do... that is "diminish the wealth of scholarship". You would think translating a text word for word from the Greek would be an almost mechanical proess... but as I am sure you know it is not. Even in the text, the exact meaning of any word is almost always determined by the context of the surrounding words. And context is always determined by the person reading the text. So we end up with whole translations that are actually interpretations... and even amplifications of the original text. I am not saying this is wrong.. it is just par for the course. People say I get too complicated. I guess I do. But that is the level you have to go to in order to find truth. I have actaully created my own translation in my years of seeking. I believe that God has rewarded my diligent search with findings. Those who seek find.Those who diligently seek Him are rewarded. In the end, I find that my "interpretations" are every bit as good or better than many of the scholars, translators, and interpretors. Don't you? Apparently you do since you sometimes even question them yourself. You have a number of virtues my friend... and independant thinking is one of them. I do not see you as a yes man to anyone. I think you (and I) will stand before God and know that whatever He says to us will be received in good conscience. That is the best we can do.
Nor do I discount the guidance of the Holy Spirit in our personal lives and decisions, but I do not rely on such “revelations” without checking it out against the Word. This is one of the ways I try the spirits to see if they are of God and prove all things so that I can hold fast that which is true.
Again older bro.. I am in no way referring to guidence as "revelation". Leadings and promptings really do not enter in to the area of "revelation knowledge". Revelation Knowledge is one thing and one thing only... the process by which the Spirit of Truth takes static truth and makes it living truth that abides in our hearts.

Surely, you see nothing wrong with that. Or do you?
This is the core verse I use for "truth detection":

1Jo 4:6 KJV
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


Obviously he is not talking about physical hearing. He is talking about what things resonate in your heart. What causes your heart to burn when you hear it?

Luk 24:32 KJV
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

I have a burn that I feel in my spirit when truth comes my way. When the Spirit of truth speaks to me.. I know it, not because my mind validates truth against a set doctrine.. but because like John my spirit hears truth and reacts to it. That is how I "discern" the spirit of truth and error. In the end, I would rather use this scriptural method than the soulical method prescribed by many.
Peace
Dids
 
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victoryword

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From the Following link:

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/tenrsn/tenrsn1.html

It (Word-Faith) Rejects “Cold Intellectualism.”
Most faith teachers do not reject technical knowledge of original Bible languages (Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic) and certainly they make proper use of them. Neither do most of them totally reject other sciences of Bible study (exegesis, homiletics, hermeneutics, exposition, etc.). Nevertheless, many faith teachers reject a dependence upon intellectual knowledge that denies the place of the Holy Spirit in illuminating Scripture and its meaning to the believer.[1]

Faith teachers believe that the Holy Spirit gives insight and meaning to God’s Word in this day and age and that He speaks directly to the believer to enable him or her to understand it (John 16:13). Faith teachers refer to this as revelation knowledge. Their understanding of this is derived from Eph. 1:17, 18:


That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.



Other passages of Scripture make a case for this biblical principle (2 Cor. 3:6; Rom. 16:25; 1 Cor. 14:26; Col. 1:9, 10; 1 Pet. 1:13; Rev. 1:1). The word "revelation" is not a mystical word. It simply means to "reveal." Revelation knowledge is therefore “revealed knowledge” (Deut. 29:29; Matt. 16:17). Yet, Revelation knowledge is NOT extra-biblical revelation. Instead it is a revelation of His Word – the Bible. Hagin states that:



There are no revelations outside of the Word. Any revelation you have that comes from the Spirit of God is in line with the Word of God. People get off into the devil’s territory when they leave the Word. They say they are following the Spirit, but you can’t follow the Holy Spirit apart from the Word.[2]



Therefore, revelation knowledge is God revealing to us insights directly from the BIBLE itself (Luke 24:25-27). The Holy Spirit is our helper to guide us into His truth and enable our understanding of Scripture. He will reveal to us truth consistent with the SCRIPTURE itself. The great Chinese preacher, Watchman Nee explained this well when he wrote, “By revelation we mean that today God again breathes on His Word, the Holy Spirit imparts light to me; the anointing of the Holy Spirit is upon this word so that once again I see what Paul saw in his day.”[3]


As Hagin stated, anything apart from Scripture should not be considered “revelation knowledge.” Andrew Murray once wrote, “Every exhibition of the power of faith was the fruit of a special revelation from God.”[4] Murray went on to say that this revelation is based on the Holy Spirit revealing the promises of God:


It was the special revelation of God Himself that gave the promise its living power to enter the heart and cultivate the faith. Because they knew God, these men of faith could not do anything but trust His promise. God's promise will be to us what God Himself is. The man who walks on his face to listen while the living God speaks to him will receive the promise. We have God's promises in the Bible with full liberty to claim them. Our spiritual power depends on God Himself speaking those promises to us.[5] (Italics are his)

Revelation knowledge is not giving us new information to be added to the canon of Scripture. It is giving us insight consistent with Scripture. We believe that the Bible is truly a simple book, written in plain language that can be understood as any other book. Nevertheless, Peter reminds his readers that some things in Paul's letters (which he equated to Scripture) are hard to understand (2 Pet. 3:15, 16). The Holy Spirit is there to give us understanding of those areas of Scripture that are difficult to comprehend with our intellect.

This is the basic premise promoted by the faith teachers. Kenneth Copeland wrote that “Knowledge that's been revealed directly to your heart by the Spirit of God. I call it revelation knowledge.”[6] Copeland does not teach that this is knowledge gained by “inward self meditation”[7] as the Gnostics do. Copeland fully believed that one should meditate on God's Word: “Determine that you're going to meditate the Word until you get a revelation like that.”[8] Emphasizing the importance of God’s word in the revelation process, Copeland writes, “Once you get a revelation from the Word of God, hang onto it. Don’t focus on anything else.”[9] In a similar vein, Kenneth Hagin wrote, “We can find direction in God’s Word. If we will listen to the Holy Spirit, He will open the Word of God and direct us.”[10]

Like Andrew Murray, the Faith teachers focus on the fact that God reveals His Word to the believer, which enables him or her to walk in the power of God's promises. Faith teachers are adamant concerning the need for any so-called revelation to be consistent with Biblical revelation. Hagin said, "I tell my students that if they can't find where the Bible says something, they shouldn't say it either."[11]

The above statements refute Tillin’s erroneous and false statements like the following: “... this revelation knowledge is limited to the few who can receive it; the less intelligent are at a disadvantage. This is elitism.” Contrary to this false accusation, the faith teachers believe (along with the writers of Scripture) that all believers can have Biblical truth revealed to them.

Tillin’s charges of “gnosticism” are also proven to be erroneous in light of the above quotes. Furthermore, the faith teachers themselves have disputed Gnostic influences in the church. Frederick K. C. Price said, “God does not intend for His word to be a mystery to us.”[12] Price further writes:


The Bible does not have “secret” knowledge, in the sense that only a few have the right “code” or the right “key to unvail its truths.” This was one of the beliefs of gnosticism – only a group of “elite,” special, above-average people could really understand what the Bible said.


However, God’s mysteries are open to anyone who will let the Bible interpret itself and who will take the time to read, pray over what is read and study it. By “interpreting itself,” I mean looking up all the other references where a certain word or subject is mentioned and seeing what it means in those contexts.[13]

Note that Price is not reacting to the type of false charges against faith teachers that Tillin makes, but against others in the church teaching a need for secret codes to interpret the Bible. Furthermore, a comparison of Gnostic teachings and our knowledge of genuine Word-Faith doctrine will expose the fallacies of Tillin and those like her.


Gnostics taught that one could receive special knowledge by searching within himself. Faith Teachers teach that revelation knowledge can only come through meditation upon God's Word (Josh 1:8; Ps. 1:2) and allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal this word to you. Gnostics elevated their type of knowledge above the Word of God. Faith Teachers elevate the Word of God above any knowledge that one might gain, regardless of the source.[14]

Finally, Tillin’s accusation that faith teachers reject “sense knowledge” has some merit. Yet, this is not a rejection borrowed from “gnosticism.” The distinction between “faith” and “sense knowledge” has been a belief held among a number of Evangelicals that no one would consider to be “Word-Faith.” In his famous devotional, Oswald Chambers wrote, “Nothing that Jesus Christ ever said is common sense, it is revelation sense, and it reaches the shores where common sense fails.”[15] (Italics are mine).


NOTES

[1] Many years before the current Faith Movement, R. A. Torrey wrote the following: “The person who has no technical knowledge of Greek and Hebrew but has spiritual discernment is a far more competent critic of the Bible than the one who has a rare, technical knowledge of Greek and Hebrew but no spiritual discernment. It is unfortunate that more emphasis is often placed on a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew in training for ministry than is placed on the spiritual life and its consequent spiritual discernment.” Torrey, Reuben A. How To Study The Bible (Springdale, PA: Whitaker House, 1985), p. 9


[2] Hagin, Kenneth E. The Triumphant Church (Tulsa, OK: Kenneth Hagin Ministries, 1993), p. 198


[3] Nee, Watchman The Ministry of God's Word (New York: Christian Fellowship Publishers, 1971), p. 87


[4] Murray, Andrew With Christ In The School of Prayer (Springdale, PA: Whitaker House, 1981), p. 93


[5] Ibid.


[6] Copeland, Kenneth and Gloria From Faith to Faith: A Guide to Daily Victory (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1990), September 2 devotional titled “Go For Revelation Knowledge.”


[7] Gjorgjievski, Borce T. Gnosticism: Origins, Beliefs, And Modern Tendencies (1998-2001), Examining pp. 3-4


[8] Copeland, From Faith to Faith, September 2


[9] Ibid, January 11


[10] Hagin, Kenneth E. The Human Spirit (Tulsa, OK: Kenneth Hagin Ministries, 1985), p. 24


[11] Hagin, Kenneth E. Learning to Flow with the Spirit of God (Tulsa, OK: Kenneth Hagin Ministries, 1986), p. 20


[12] Price, Frederick K. C. The Victorious Overcoming Life (Los Angeles, CA: Crenshaw Christian Center, 1993), p. 69


[13] Ibid.


[14] Gjorgjievski, Gnosticism, Examining pp. 3-4, anyone who has impartially examined Word-Faith doctrine in comparison to Gnostic heresy will quickly discern the distinctions. This paper can be found on the internet


[15] Chambers, Oswald My Utmost For His Highest (Uhrichsville, OH: Barbour Publishing, Inc., 1993), October 30
 
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heron

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The Torrey quote reminds me of verses I've run across that were translated poorly. The translators assumed that a word must have meant something else. Then thousands of people base their beliefs on this interpretation. I wish I had examples in mind.

Preachers weekly come up with new revelations and interpretations of scriptures. That's what people expect of them. Where I see problems--

1. Building new revelations upon a new revelation instead of the broad base of scriptures (not gnostic, just risky)

2. Relying on prophets to make decisions, and jumping into these without the wisdom of scriptures timing the leap (extragnostic?)

3. Isolating groups of people in the Body who are more mystical, assuming they have higher understanding of the Word. (Semi-gnostic)

Dids, Victoryword, you have explained the stances well! The earlier banter seemed random, without enough definition of what was at risk. Maybe we don't disagree as much as we think.
 
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JimB

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victoryword said:
*****
Revelation knowledge is not giving us new information to be added to the canon of Scripture. It is giving us insight consistent with Scripture. We believe that the Bible is truly a simple book, written in plain language that can be understood as any other book. Nevertheless, Peter reminds his readers that some things in Paul's letters (which he equated to Scripture) are hard to understand (2 Pet. 3:15, 16). The Holy Spirit is there to give us understanding of those areas of Scripture that are difficult to comprehend with our intellect.
*****
Thanks for this VW. At last someone bringing some clarity to the W-F side of this issue. :) Still, IMO, the unscriptural phrase “revelation knowledge” needs to be scrapped. It carries a lot of bad baggage with it, negative connotations, and only draws fire from us outsiders who do not understand W-F insider jargon.

Thanx again.

~Jim



 
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ProAmerican

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didaskalos said:
This is the classical shell game where the difference of definitions destroys the dialogue.
"Revelation Knowledge" as concieved by WoF and many non-WoF P/Cs does not mean "new revelation".
"Revelation Knowledge" simply means to have belief imparted to your heart rather than merely memorized in your head.

Benny Hinn, though, stated that 'revelation knowledge' or by the Holy Spirits leadings as he puts it, was the means by which he came to believe that Jesus Christ was born-again in hell. Since then, though, he has recanted and says that he will no longer teach this. It seems, though, that his recanting was not public, whereas his teaching of it was.

Funny, if it was 'revelation knowledge' which led him to believe this, why would he recant that which surely must have come from God? And, secondly, when Benny Hinn recanted this belief, it must invariably make us wonder what other teachings circulating within the body of Christ can be trusted if they came from 'revelation knowledge'?

Just click here: http://www.myfortress.org/BennyHinn.html and look at the seventh quote down, and the fourth one below: Does Benny Hinn's Wife Blaspheme God?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I do not know what Benny Hinn teaches and I really do not care.
If he said that was "revelation knowledge" he was wrong.
ProAmerican said:
Benny Hinn, though, stated that 'revelation knowledge' was the means by which he came to believe that Jesus Christ was born-again in hell. Since then, though, he has recanted and says that he will no longer teach this. It seems, though, that his recanting was not public, whereas his teaching of it was.

Funny, if it was 'revelation knowledge' which led him to believe this, why would he recant that which surely must have come from God? And, secondly, when Benny Hinn recanted this belief, it must invariably make us wonder what other teachings circulating within the body of Christ can be trusted if they came from 'revelation knowledge'?
 
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didaskalos said:
I do not know what Benny Hinn teaches and I really do not care.
If he said that was "revelation knowledge" he was wrong.

Funny, since You posted twice on the Benny Hinn Exposed? thread I was sure that you had familiarized yourself with him to some extent, since you had to at least seen some of what he has said there while on your way to post. Or do you just post without reading what is contained at the beginning of the threads?
 
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Christina M

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ProAmerican said:
Funny, since You posted twice on the Benny Hinn Exposed? thread I was sure that you had familiarized yourself with him to some extent, since you had to at least seen some of what he has said there while on your way to post. Or do you just post without reading what is contained at the beginning of the threads?

Do YOU ever post anything nice about anybody?? :scratch: :doh:

Is there anybody you think is OK? :confused:
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Like I said... I have no idea what he is all about other than reading what those who support him or degrade him have to say.
From what I understand, there are those who claim he has helped them. Great.
I have no intention on engaging in a "who said what" with anyone or attempting to defend what he said or did not say.
I have better things to do.
Have fun...
ProAmerican said:
Funny, since You posted twice on the Benny Hinn Exposed? thread I was sure that you had familiarized yourself with him to some extent, since you had to at least seen some of what he has said there while on your way to post. Or do you just post without reading what is contained at the beginning of the threads?
 
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Simon_Templar

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didaskalos said:
I see no-one doing what you suggest.
What "new revelation" is contrary to the scripture?
Who is presenting this and where?
As I pointed out above "revelation knowledge" is not new revelation. It is simply making the spiritual truth found in scripture real to our hearts. There is nothing new. It is not newness of truth... it is only where the old truth is going... into our spirits.
The "new revelation" as you define it... is not the issue.
You just do not like what some of us see in the scripture and so want to trip off this phrase "revelation knowledge" and try and make it out to be something it is not. It is NOT new knowledge that is outside scripture... it is the just the knowledge of scripture being inserted into the heart by the process of revelation. Revelation knowledge is a "process" not "content".

I havn't seen too many people do that in this forum, but I have seen alot of it in "real life". I've seen alot of it in teachings given in local churches (including mine) I've seen even more people in the congregation do it, usualy to justify something to their own conscience or to allow themselves to accept a teaching that tittilates them.
A few of the big televangelists have done it, though most of the ones who have later reverse their position when they take too much heat for the "new teaching". More often though it would be guests that televangelists have on their shows.. they often times aren't too careful in their screening process I guess.
Being very interested in end times sorts of things I've looked into alot of different prophetic groups and I have seen alot of "prophets" do this.
 
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