What is Charismatic Neo-Gnosticism and Why Should it Be Resisted?

[ProAmerican]

So...
Lets say I come and proclaim "The scriptures tell me to kill witches".
Of coures a wrong conclusion.
But from your logic and your words:

"...Hence, charismatics/word-of-faith-ers should reject scripture as their guide in spiritual matters, and rest instead upon the scriptures as their guide..."

Abuse of water should not lead us to never drink.
Bad logic.

No, your characterization that the above statement you gave is logical is a bad example of logic.

If someone came along and said that "the scriptures tell me to kill witches," I would ask them: "where within the New Testament does it show that we are to kill witches?" Yes, within the Old Testament the Jews were told to stone witches, but we no longer live under those provisions.

Hence I would use scripture as my foundation concerning that matter. The individual could not prove from the New Testament that we are to kill witches, hence his statement would not be in line with scripture.

Again, Charasmatics/WOF-ers are to use the scriptures as their guide and must show from the scriptures that their doctrines are absolutely correct. If they cannot absolutely prove from the scriptures that their doctrines are correct then they should cease and desist from teching those things. Anything which cannot be absolutely proven from scripture is to be rejected.

BTW, nice try on your use of flawed logic.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

But that is exactly my point PA. Just because someone mis-uses a source, that does not destroy the validity of the source.

No, your characterization that the above statement you gave is logical is a bad example of logic.

If someone came along and said that "the scriptures tell me to kill witches," I would ask them: "where within the New Testament does it show that we are to kill witches?" Yes, within the Old Testament the Jews were told to stone witches, but we no longer live under those provisions.

Hence I would use scripture as my foundation concerning that matter. The individual could not prove from the New Testament that we are to kill witches, hence his statement would not be in line with scripture.

Again, Charasmatics/WOF-ers are to use the scriptures as their guide and must show from the scriptures that their doctrines are absolutely correct. If they cannot absolutely prove from the scriptures that their doctrines are correct then they should cease and desist from teching those things. Anything which cannot be absolutely proven from scripture is to be rejected.

BTW, nice try on your use of flawed logic.

 

[FrankFaith]

May I say that the folks I have gotten to know here do not have WoF "leaders". Jesus is their leader and the folks I know here do not agree with flawed, non-scripturally-supported "we are little gods" belief.

That said, when anyone slams WoF teaching here, it is from a standpoint of being hurt in the past/being led astray by pastors whi just happened to be WoF affiliated. It is also the result of general anger toward flawed teaching as well. In both cases, the WoF banner is used in a derrogatory manner, leaving casual visitors here to think that WoF "theology" in bad stuff. Not so. In fact, THERE IS NO WoF THEOLOGY in print anywhere that I am aware of.

So, the end result of all of this mud slinging is in reality just the slander of truth itself and the leading astray of people who could othersiwe benefit from some very enlightened AND CORRECT interpretation of scripture.

When will we learn that without love, satan turns our misunderstands into slander of truth and the further misleading of God's children?

 

[ProAmerican]

But that is exactly my point PA. Just because someone mis-uses a source, that does not destroy the validity of the source.

This is what it all comes down to: Charismatics/WOF-ers have to absolutely prove from scripture anything and everything that they teach, regardless of if it comes from 'revelation knowledge or not. If they cannot prove something absolutely from scripture then it is to be rejected. Period.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

True...
And that is true for anyone else also.
Thanks

This is what it all comes down to: Charismatics/WOF-ers have to absolutely prove from scripture anything and everything that they teach, regardless of if it comes from 'revelation knowledge or not. If they cannot prove something absolutely from scripture then it is to be rejected. Period.

 

[FrankFaith]

That's awesome--God's so good. We're in agreement!

*And we were in agreement on this all along--it was satan who was confusing the situaltion as usual. There was no need for this strife afterall!

 

[ProAmerican]

True...
And that is true for anyone else also.
Thanks

Hence, when someone says that they received something from 'revelation knowledge' and their 'revelation knowledge' cannot be absolutely backed up by scripture, then what they say is to be rejected.

And, yes, it is true for anyone else as well....

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What you are talking about is not the same as the "...spirit of wisdom and revelation in the the knowledge..." spoken of in the scripture.
You are speaking of "extra biblical revelation" that has nothing to do with what charismatics refer to as "revelation knowledge".
Revelation knowledge refers to scriptural truth that has been engraphed into the heart of the believer. This has more to do with the function than the actual material that is being moved.

Hence, when someone says that they received something from 'revelation knowledge' and their 'revelation knowledge' cannot be absolutely backed up by scripture, then what they say is to be rejected.

And, yes, it is true for anyone else as well....

 

[ProAmerican]

Ultimately, though, we have all that we need within the Word of God, and the teachings/examples laid down for us by the early church fathers. I.E. Polycarp, and others. This is all that one needs to live the Christian life. Nothing more is necessary beyond this.

Many neo-Gnostic fallacies have come to us in the guise of so-called 'revelation knowledge.'

I.E.: Health-wealth gospel, Christians are 'little gods', Jesus was born-again in hell, the prosperity movement, etc...

 

[ProAmerican]

What you are talking about is not the same as the "...spirit of wisdom and revelation in the the knowledge..." spoken of in the scripture.
You are speaking of "extra biblical revelation" that has nothing to do with what charismatics refer to as "revelation knowledge".
Revelation knowledge refers to scriptural truth that has been engraphed into the heart of the believer. This has more to do with the function than the actual material that is being moved.

Problem is, is that what many teach as scriptural truth "engrafted within the heart" really is extra-biblical in nature.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I repeat.
"Revelation Knowledge" has absolutely nothing to do with extra biblical information whatsoever.
It is merely the movement of the truth found in the Word into our hearts.
That is all revelation knowledge is.

Ultimately, though, we have all that we need within the Word of God, and the teachings/examples laid down for us by the early church fathers. I.E. Polycarp, and others. This is all that one needs to live the Christian life. Nothing more is necessary beyond this.

Many neo-Gnostic fallacies have come to us in the guise of so-called 'revelation knowledge.'

I.E.: Health-wealth gospel, Christians are 'little gods', Jesus was born-again in hell, the prosperity movement, etc...

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Problem is, is that what many teach as scriptural truth "engrafted within the heart" really is extra-biblical in nature.

Again... revelation knowledge has more to do with the process God uses to give us faith. Nothing to do with content.

 

[heron]

when anyone slams WoF teaching here, it is from a standpoint of being hurt in the past/being led astray by pastors whi just happened to be WoF affiliated. It is also the result of general anger toward flawed teaching as well. In both cases, the WoF banner is used in a derrogatory manner, leaving casual visitors here to think that WoF "theology" in bad stuff.

So true. I gained a lot of answers from WOF teachers at a time where I felt that many Christian principles "weren't working," and these practices did make a difference in my life. But am so weary of certain things they say that I don't listen to them often.

Their focus on acquiring and success sometimes depends on the particular sermon. Their emphasis on tithing-to-receive varies from the borderline extortion of Tilton to the rational explanations of Creflo Dollar (he was born into the pun). It's hard to pour everything they say into one WOF bucket and dump it.

Every teacher conveys valuable truths mixed in with opinion and error.

 

[JimB]

I would still advise you to drop the “revelation knowledge” buzz phrase when talking to non-WOF’ers. We do not read Kenyon and Hagin. And the misconceptions it gives rise to should not be worth the misunderstandings the phrase creates.

IMO.

~Jim

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I would still advise you to drop the “revelation knowledge” buzz phrase when talking to non-WOF’ers. We do not read Kenyon and Hagin. And the misconceptions it gives rise to should not be worth the misunderstandings the phrase creates.

IMO.

~Jim

Well bro...
All the devil has to do to shut up believers is associate bad things about certain phases and words.
If people want to assume the worst, believe the lies, and otherwise judge without knowledge.. then who will be responsible? Those who spread the lies or those who suffer as a result of their unreasonable and unwarrented attacks.
Lets do what is right and insist the liars stop lying. Call the false accusers what they are and insist they repent of their false witnessing.

 

[JimB]

Am I typing in tongues or something. I’m talking about a catch-phrases and buzz-words and you’re talking about liars and accusers. I want to understand, but your words keep getting in the way.

The term “revelation knowledge” is not as dear and precious as phrase to a non-WOF’er and it is to a WOF’er.

~Jim

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Am I typing in tongues or something. I’m talking about a catch-phrases and buzz-words and you’re talking about liars and accusers. I want to understand, but your words keep getting in the way.

The term “revelation knowledge” is not as dear and precious as phrase to a non-WOF’er and it is to a WOF’er.

~Jim

Jim,
The word is not precious to me either until some ill informed Hank wannabe says it means "new revelation" when it simply does not. If you want to understand the meaning of the phrase, then do no let someone who obviously does not understand what it is tell you its definition.

 

[JimB]

Got it. Thanx Dids.

~Jim

 

[FrankFaith]

Looky here--we're in agreement again!



The devil ony won for about a page of posts this time--NOT BAD--NOT BAD AT ALL!!

 

[ChristianMuse]

I would still advise you to drop the “revelation knowledge” buzz phrase when talking to non-WOF’ers. We do not read Kenyon and Hagin. And the misconceptions it gives rise to should not be worth the misunderstandings the phrase creates.

IMO.

~Jim

I know what you mean. Years ago people used the words "born again". My, there were many disputes and arguments over what the term actually means. The visitor to a church could get confused just what the term means because there are so many definitions from different denominations. The term should be dropped because it causes confusion. Who cares if it is a scriptural concept put forward by Jesus. It is better to live in ignorance of the term then to attempt to put forward that insight from the gospels.

Just kidding of course.