LDS What is an eternal being?

[Rescued One]

Is God the Father eternal? Is Jesus Christ eternal? Is the Holy Spirit eternal? Is a Mormon eternal?

D&C 132
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be
from everlasting to everlasting because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

“Issues that received special attention included: What is the relationship between the Father and the Son? Was Christ a created being or was He co-eternal with the Father? Is Christ subordinate to the Father, or is He equal in power and glory? Who or what is the Holy Spirit, and does that Spirit proceed from God the Father, from God the Son, or from both the Father and the Son? Are there three divine beings, two Gods, or one God?”...


“It is only natural for those who believe that God and humanity are basically of a different substance and thus of a different race to also believe that God is a totally unattached and uncreated being, to conclude that there was a time when only God existed and thus that the creation had to be ex nihilo, out of nothing,” he[Robert Millet] explained.

Quoting author Karen Armstrong, Brother Millet said such doctrine “tore the universe and the children of God away from God, thus transforming the inhabitants of planet Earth into an entirely different nature from the substance of the living God.”

Joseph Smith, he said, “was charged to restore a correct knowledge of God and man. To assist humanity in accomplishing this near-impossible task, God had been about the business of orchestrating things in preparation for that revolution we call the Restoration. This ‘marvelous work and a wonder’ was not to take place without immense and intricate preparation by divine providence. … Hearts would be open to a new revelation in an unprecedented manner; nothing was to be left to chance.”
Lecture Covers Joseph Smith and the Recovery of “Eternal Man” - Church News and Events

The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their relatives and friends are only separated from their bodies for a short season: their spirits which existed with God have left the tabernacle of clay only for a little moment, as it were; and they now exist in a place where they converse together the same as we do on the earth.
- Joseph Smith
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign May 1971 - ensign

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is any part of the OP statements or quotes supposed to be true ?

 

[Ironhold]

Is any part of the OP statements or quotes supposed to be true ?

Eternal Life

I'm trying to finish up so I can get to bed (it's almost 1 AM here), so I'll just post that link and get back some time later.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Eternal Life

I'm trying to finish up so I can get to bed (it's almost 1 AM here), so I'll just post that link and get back some time later.

It doesn't appear to be true (clearly not true actually) , and doesn't answer the question about the op.

 

[Rescued One]

Is any part of the OP statements or quotes supposed to be true ?

"LDS" and Debate Non-Christian Religions indicates what this discussion is about. I also indicated sources for the quotes.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"LDS" and Debate Non-Christian Religions indicates what this discussion is about. I also indicated sources for the quotes.

The sources don't matter at the moment - I was wondering if you think what you posted is true or false. i.e. what is the debate ?

 

[Rescued One]

The sources don't matter at the moment - I was wondering if you think what you posted is true or false. i.e. what is the debate ?

Mormonism is false. The sources do matter. They are Mormon sources.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Mormonism is false. The sources do matter. They are Mormon sources.

In what manner does the source manner ?

If an Ukranian instead of a mormon was the source, would that make the statements true?? (I don't think so)

 

[Rescued One]

In what manner does the source manner ?

If an Ukranian instead of a mormon was the source, would that make the statements true?? (I don't think so)

No, the source tells you that it comes from Mormonism. If you don't want to debate Mormonism, why are you posting to this thread?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, the source tells you that it comes from Mormonism. If you don't want to debate Mormonism, why are you posting to this thread?

I initially couldn't tell (and reading the OP is not clear) if you were promoting / defending mormon teachings or what you were doing.

From the op, it was awkward to tell if you thought you were posting what you thought was truth,

or if you were posting deception and didn't know it,

and (it was and is not clear) what the debate / topic - op was about and what side you were on


(yes - it is in the debate section, but the way it looks (I just went and looked again at the op)
it seems to be more promoting mormonism than it is proving that it is wrong) ..... It is easy to prove mormonism (and other -isms, not being prejudiced) is wrong simply with Scripture.

Not knowing either way, but just perusing (someone searching) - someone reading the OP as it is might just be intrigued and further distracted and led away from the truth (if they are not protected by YHWH) (their minds) by the 'mormon' information/ promotion-propaganda , without realizing that it is false.

 

[Rescued One]

I initially couldn't tell (and reading the OP is not clear) if you were promoting / defending mormon teachings or what you were doing.

From the op, it was awkward to tell if you thought you were posting what you thought was truth,

or if you were posting deception and didn't know it,

and (it was and is not clear) what the debate / topic - op was about and what side you were on


(yes - it is in the debate section, but the way it looks (I just went and looked again at the op)
it seems to be more promoting mormonism than it is proving that it is wrong) ..... It is easy to prove mormonism (and other -isms, not being prejudiced) is wrong simply with Scripture.

Not knowing either way, but just perusing (someone searching) - someone reading the OP as it is might just be intrigued and further distracted and led away from the truth (if they are not protected by YHWH) (their minds) by the 'mormon' information/ promotion-propaganda , without realizing that it is false.

Read my signature and my custom title. And FYI Mormons aren't allowed to start threads in here.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Read my signature and my custom title. And FYI Mormons aren't allowed to start threads in here.

I did - before ever replying to this thread.
It still looks like the OP is promoting mormonism. (It's not at all clear just from the OP what side you're on)

 

[fatboys]

I did - before ever replying to this thread.
It still looks like the OP is promoting mormonism. (It's not at all clear just from the OP what side you're on)

Exactly

 

[Rescued One]

Mormons are allowed to answer questions.

Is God the Father eternal? Is Jesus Christ eternal? Is the Holy Spirit eternal? Is a Mormon eternal?

 

[Ironhold]

Mormons are allowed to answer questions.

...but it would help if we knew just what people were even talking about in the first place.

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons are allowed to answer questions.

Is God the Father eternal? Is Jesus Christ eternal? Is the Holy Spirit eternal? Is a Mormon eternal?

The answer is yes.

God is obviously eternal. Jesus is obviously eternal. The HS is obviously eternal. The one that is not blazingly obvious is that Mormons are eternal (or any other human that are not Mormons)

To answer that position, you have to have some common sense. If something is immortal, it isn't because it woke up one day and it was going to live forever.

IOW you cannot live forever, if you have not lived forever.

This discussion boils down to: Did God create the universe and earth and everything on it, above it, and under it, out of nothing. The LDS belief is that He did not. We also believe the He and Jesus and the HS and all of us have existed forever and will exist forever. We know that Jesus has existed forever, but in different forms. He is our perfect example, we follow him and mirror his past immortal existence, and hopefully will be joint heirs with him for ever and ever in our future immortal existence.

Hopefully that answered your question.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Is any part of the OP statements or quotes supposed to be true ?

The problem is Phoebe gives a few lines without back ground and it's confusing to follow. She already knows the answer because we have told her over and over again but her desire is to bring up the subject once more from a different directions, not sure why?? It does leave you confused, not having a clear understanding.

It comes down to what Peter said, we do not accept the unbiblical teaching that God created from nothing. The doctrine puts God in the unacceptable position of creating evil. There was no evil and God created everything and now there is evil.

We reject that and say all matter has always existed including all beings, they are co-eternal with God. However God is so much more advanced in knowledge and power he controls and organizes all else.

 

[Rescued One]

The problem is Phoebe gives a few lines without back ground and it's confusing to follow. She already knows the answer because we have told her over and over again but her desire is to bring up the subject once more from a different directions, not sure why?? It does leave you confused, not having a clear understanding.

Baloney!

It comes down to what Peter said, we do not accept the unbiblical teaching that God created from nothing. The doctrine puts God in the unacceptable position of creating evil. There was no evil and God created everything and now there is evil.

If all beings are co-eternal with God, and God is omniscient, why did your god put evil beings on earth? It's part of your god's plan!

2 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

Mormonism teaches that evil and sorrow must exist and your god doesn't prevent it.

We reject that and say all matter has always existed including all beings, they are co-eternal with God. However God is so much more advanced in knowledge and power he controls and organizes all else.

Should we be impressed?

 

[Peter1000]

Baloney!

If all beings are co-eternal with God, and God is omniscient, why did your god put evil beings on earth? It's part of your god's plan!

2 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

Mormonism teaches that evil and sorrow must exist and your god doesn't prevent it.

Should we be impressed?

If all beings are co-eternal with God, and God is omniscient, why did your god put evil beings on earth? It's part of your god's plan!

Why did your God put evil beings on the earth? Becaus it's part of your Gods plan. See the plan and know that your God is the plan maker:
Revelation 12:7-9King James Version (KJV)
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Now the answer for why your God cast lucifer and his angels down to earth is partailly answered by the scriptures from 2 Nephi 2:11-13. There must be an opposition in all things. If not there will be no evil and there would be no righteousness. The creation would be a waste.

Mormonism teaches that evil and sorrow must exist and your god doesn't prevent it.

Christianity must teach that evil and sorrow must exist and your god does not prevent it either. Sorrow has existed since the beginning and still exists today, so apparently you god doesn't prevent it either.

Seems like our God is quite closely associated with your God.

 

[Rescued One]

No one needs the Book of Mormon to know God's plan, to be comfortable with His plan, and to completely trust His goodness. Your god is a figment of Joseph Smith's imagination; it is a completely false god with a completely false plan.

Whether or not God created evil isn't the question. God created calamity and punishment. God gives His sheep safe passage even when they walk through the valley of the shadow of death or go through deep waters. His sheep follow Him, not false prophets.

"And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."