LDS What is an eternal being?

[Peter1000]

No one needs the Book of Mormon to know God's plan, to be comfortable with His plan, and to completely trust His goodness. Your god is a figment of Joseph Smith's imagination; it is a completely false god with a completely false plan.

Whether or not God created evil isn't the question. God created calamity and punishment. God gives His sheep safe passage even when they walk through the valley of the shadow of death or go through deep waters. His sheep follow Him, not false prophets.

"And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."

The scriptures say that if a sheep does not produce fruit for the KOG they will be cut off and burned. Your god is tougher than you think. Its not automatic.

You do need the BOM to get the whole story. The prime example is the bible has lost the plain and precious words to what you have to do to be saved. With the help of the Bible and the BOM, what is required comes into focus clearly, and we follow gladly.

 

[Rescued One]

The scriptures say that if a sheep does not produce fruit for the KOG they will be cut off and burned. Your god is tougher than you think. Its not automatic.

There is no Bible verse that says His adopted children, the sheep, will be burned! The only people who can produce fruit are the ones who have His Spirit, belong to Christ, and were purchased by Christ with His blood.

You do need the BOM to get the whole story. The prime example is the bible has lost the plain and precious words to what you have to do to be saved. With the help of the Bible and the BOM, what is required comes into focus clearly, and we follow gladly.

So very, very wrong. Any good that we do is not our doing, but the grace of God.

Mormon temples are not houses of God, proxy work for dead people is pointless, following Mormon dietary laws is not of God, multiple kingdoms of glory for those not worthy to be in God's presence isn't of God, etc.

1 Corinthians 15
10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Philippians 2
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[Peter1000]

There is no Bible verse that says His adopted children, the sheep, will be burned! The only people who can produce fruit are the ones who have His Spirit, belong to Christ, and were purchased by Christ with His blood.

So are you saying that His adopted children, the sheep, are not people who can produce fruit?

Are you saying that the sheep do not have His Spirit, and do not belong to Christ, and are not purchased by Christ with His blood?

Your statement is a lttle strange to me. You say the sheep will not be burned.
And then you say the only people that can produce fruit are ..... This intimates that the sheep are different people from those that can produce fruit?

Am I reading you wrong? Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Peter1000]

No one needs the Book of Mormon to know God's plan, to be comfortable with His plan, and to completely trust His goodness. Your god is a figment of Joseph Smith's imagination; it is a completely false god with a completely false plan.

Whether or not God created evil isn't the question. God created calamity and punishment. God gives His sheep safe passage even when they walk through the valley of the shadow of death or go through deep waters.

His sheep follow Him, not false prophets.

"And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."

His sheep follow Him, not false prophets.

Do sheep follow true prophets or just Jesus?

 

[Rescued One]

Do sheep follow true prophets or just Jesus?

Hebrews 1 NIV
God’s Final Word: His Son

1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

The sheep follow their Shepherd Who absolutely NEVER leads them astray! The sheep don't follow Mormon prophets who lead people astray.

Proverbs 3
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 3
20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[Peter1000]

Phoebe Ann says,

Hebrews 1 NIV
God’s Final Word: His Son

If God's final word is His son, then throw the bible away, except for the words of Jesus only. Throw the BOM away, except for the words of Jesus only.

the exact representation of his being

This is part of your above description of Jesus. If this is correct, and Jesus is an 'exact representation of God's being', then I would expect God to look and feel just like Jesus. Since we know that Jesus is made of resurrected flesh, then by your admission, Jesus's Father must also be made of resurrected flesh. Pure Mormon doctrine. Thank you.

 

[Rescued One]

FYI, His sheep are His people. Only His sheep follow Him. The Son became flesh; the Father did not.

Proverbs 30
6Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.



1 John 4
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 John 5
10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[Peter1000]

FYI, His sheep are His people. Only His sheep follow Him. The Son became flesh; the Father did not.

Proverbs 30
6Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.



1 John 4
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 John 5
10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Sorry, but I said that this painting is an exact replica of a Picasso painting, you would know exactly what the Picasso painting looked like.

____________________ is an exact representation of his ______________. Fill in the blank with anything and you would know exactly what the represented thing would look and feel like. Try it.

Lets try this:
Jumbo the elephant is an exact representation of elephants in the wild. Does that give you a bit of insight as to what elephants in the wild look and feel like?

Lets try this:
Jesus is an exact representation of God's being (just like you said) Now from the examples thus far, and your knowledge of what Jesus looks and feels like, tell me what God the Father looks and feels like? Hope you are following me.

 

[Rescued One]

Sorry, but I said that this painting is anexact replica of a Picasso painting, you would know exactly what the Picasso painting looked like.

____________________ is an exact representation of his ______________. Fill in the blank with anything and you would know exactly what the represented thing would look and feel like. Try it.

Lets try this:
Jumbo the elephant is an exact representation of elephants in the wild. Does that give you a bit of insight as to what elephants in the wild look and feel like?

Lets try this:
Jesus is an exact representation of God's being (just like you said) Now from the examples thus far, and your knowledge of what Jesus looks and feels like, tell my what God the Father looks and feels like? Hope you are following me.

An exact representation isn't a an answer to what is an eternal being. Furthermore, the representation doesn't have to refer to physical features. Jesus' physical traits came from Mary as far as anyone knows. The Father isn't human or physical. You can't say He is an exact replica of created beings.

 

[Rescued One]

So are you saying that His adopted children, the sheep, are not people who can produce fruit?

Are you saying that the sheep do not have His Spirit, and do not belong to Christ, and are not purchased by Christ with His blood?

Your statement is a lttle strange to me. You say the sheep will not be burned.
And then you say the only people that can produce fruit are ..... This intimates that the sheep are different people from those that can produce fruit?

Am I reading you wrong? Thanks for the clarification.

Please explain how you ended up way out there in left field. The ones who produce fruit do so because they ARE His sheep! Are you that unfamiliar with the Bible?

Once again:

John 10
22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[Peter1000]

An exact replication isn't a an answer to what is an eternal being. Furthermore, the replica doesn't have to refer to physical features. Jesus' physical traits came from Mary as far as anyone knows. The Father isn't human or physical. You can't say He is an exact replica of created beings.

You did, so I just followed up on your statement. If Jesus is an exact representation (remember these are your words, not mine) then you know what God the Father looks and feels like. Either that or withdraw your words (which by the way are in the bible).

Which way is it going to be. Withdraw, or admit that God looks and feels like his Son Jesus Christ?

 

[Rescued One]

You did, so I just followed up on your statement. If Jesus is an exact representation (remember these are your words, not mine) then you know what God the Father looks and feels like. Either that or withdraw your words (which by the way are in the bible).

Which way is it going to be. Withdraw, or admit that God looks and feels like his Son Jesus Christ?

If you go somewhere as a representative of the company you work for, do you have to look and feel like the owner of the company?

 

[Peter1000]

If you go somewhere as a representative of the company you work for, do you have to look and feel like the owner of the company?

Yes, you will have a torso, 2 arms, 2 legs, 10 toes, and 10 fingers and you are made of flesh and bone, just like your owner. If this representative said :
I am an exact representation of my owner, you would certainly know with a surety what the owner looked like and felt like. This is a perfect example.

God sent his son to earth as an exact representative of Him. We now know what God looks like and what he feels like. Thank you Phoebe Ann. You are getting it.

 

[Rescued One]

Yes, you will have a torso, 2 arms, 2 legs, 10 toes, and 10 fingers and you are made of flesh and bone, just like your owner. If this representative said :
I am an exact representation of my owner, you would certainly know with a surety what the owner looked like and felt like. This is a perfect example.

God sent his son to earth as an exact representative of Him. We now know what God looks like and what he feels like. Thank you Phoebe Ann. You are getting it.

No, no one cares what the owner looks like nor are they interested in feeling him!

 

[Peter1000]

No, no one cares what the owner looks like nor are they interested in feeling him!

This was an analogy, a hypothetical situation. It was an exact representation of your statement.

Bottom line: If someone is coming to you and states that he is an exact representation of X, then you will know what X looks and feels like. No matter if you don't care or not, you will know.

Since we know that Jesus was an exact representation of his Father, we know what the Father looks like and feels like. That, I would think you would be interested in.

 

[Rescued One]

This was an analogy, a hypothetical situation. It was an exact representation of your statement.

Bottom line: If someone is coming to you and states that he is an exact representation of X, then you will know what X looks and feels like. No matter if you don't care or not, you will know.

Since we know that Jesus was an exact representation of his Father, we know what the Father looks like and feels like. That, I would think you would be interested in.

You think of God in physical terms because Joseph Smith made Him into a lowly creature. Mormonism is depressing.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him?

Hebrews 2:6
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

 

[Rescued One]

Do sheep follow true prophets or just Jesus?

1 Corinthians 3
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Safety lies in following the Good Shepherd.

 

[Peter1000]

You think of God in physical terms because Joseph Smith made Him into a lowly creature. Mormonism is depressing.

What is man, that thou art mindful of him?

Hebrews 2:6
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

God is physical, he is the Living God, not a breath of fresh air. He lives, he breaths, he is alive and well. He is not a lowly creature, he is a highly sophisticated God of the universe. Do not think for a moment that Mormonism brings God down, we just tell the truth of his tremendous power and abilities, and here is the point:

We can be like him because he was once like us. That is the hope we have in our future, to be like him. The scriptures are full of us being like him. That is the whole goal.

God tells us to be like him, so answer this: if we do become like him, then what will we be doing?

 

[Peter1000]

1 Corinthians 3
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Safety lies in following the Good Shepherd.

So did Jesus take all the sheep with him, or did he leave them in the care of his apostles and prophets? What did Jesus do?

 

[Rescued One]

You did, so I just followed up on your statement. If Jesus is an exact representation (remember these are your words, not mine)

The words in the Bible came from God; the understanding comes from God.

God is physical, he is the Living God, not a breath of fresh air. He lives, he breaths, he is alive and well. He is not a lowly creature, he is a highly sophisticated God of the universe. Do not think for a moment that Mormonism brings God down, we just tell the truth of his tremendous power and abilities, and here is the point:

We can be like him because he was once like us. That is the hope we have in our future, to be like him. The scriptures are full of us being like him. That is the whole goal.

God tells us to be like him, so answer this: if we do become like him, then what will we be doing?

God the Father is a Spirit. A spirit isn't physical. Jesus lowered Himself to become a man.

Mormons think we will be making spirit children and singing in choirs. A BoM character called King Benjamin said:
28 I say unto you that I have caused that ye should assemble yourselves together that I might rid my garments of your blood, at this period of time when I am about to go down to my grave, that I might go down in peace, and my immortal spirit may join the choirs above in singing the praises of a just God.
Book of Mormon, Mosiah 2

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
Book of Mormon, Mormon 7

I guess you think you'll be muti-tasking even though you can be in only one place at a time.

No, we will not be married and we won't be having children. God is not married. God is Holy. We will be avoiding all sin and honoring God.

What evidence do we have that God does not jealously guard his position and power, but rather seeks to see that his children rise up to his position of glory, knowledge, and power that he has obtained (see Moses 1:39)?
(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 155)

Be careful in presenting this material that you don’t bring God down to man’s level. Our objective is to perfect ourselves and raise our level to his exalted place.
(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 158)

Ah, but it's too late:

1 God Was Once a Man
As We Are Now
When he was a young man, Lorenzo Snow was promised by the Lord through the Patriarch to the Church that through obedience to the gospel he could become as great as God, “and you cannot wish to be greater”(Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, pp. 9-10)....

The Prophet Joseph Smith said:
“...It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth” (Teachings, pp. 345-46...)
(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 151-152)