What is a pro-choice Christian?

[SkyWriting]

pro-choice person - Weak in their convictions, because not empowered by the Holy Spirit.

If pro-life supporters would financially and spiritually support all pregnancies fully,
then the pro-choice argument would evaporate.

Becasue the pro-choice argument is really about finances and social support
for an endless number of children per family who are avoiding birth control.

And it's also about women having reproductive decisions for themselves.
As soon as technology allows us, we will be able to pay for every fertilized
egg to reach maturity without women involved. We can just go grab those
eggs and raise the kids ourselves.

 

[RaymondG]

I don't care particularly to control what a person thinks, but I do want them to control their bad actions or have the law control those actions for them. If that makes me pro-slavery, I'm fine with that.

"Bad" is subjective. But I understand. You would like people to be forced to DO what you believe is right, regardless of what they feel or think about it. Sounds like a good motto for a dictator. This sounds right and good for abortion and murder etc... But what happens when the dictator wants to take away bibles and churches? Would you feel the same way? Or does your feelings of "make them do it, dont care what they believe" only apply if the enforcer is the right denomination of Christian?

 

[AvaLynn]

God gives us the choice to believe in Him or to not believe. God is pro-choice in this matter
becasue He feels that having a choice is more important than being a slave to laws.

There is such a thing as right and wrong. God gave us the Ten Commandments so that we didn't lie, cheat or murder. We have a choice not to do these things, but we obviously know where God stands and that he doesn't want us to do them. I feel that having an abortion is wrong. It's selfish to take that babies life because you don't want to care for it. There is always adoption. It's ironic to call it pro- choice because the baby doesn't have any choice. It's dying and that's wrong.

 

[RaymondG]

I agree that pro choice ought to mean that but we all know it actually is a term that is used to be equivalent to being in favor of access to legal abortion. As for the definition you and I would like to give it , Does such a person actually exist? Does even one person alive not wish to force their will upon others in some form or another?

Yes, these people exist. and even if they didn't.....me and you can show the way.

Love our neighbors as ourselves. Love doesnt force anything on another.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is such a thing as right and wrong. God gave us the Ten Commandments so that we didn't lie, cheat or murder.

Don't you actually decide for yourself if you are lying or cheating?
Like if you use your phone during work, or talk to other people
at work - not about work?
We don't live under those laws anymore. We are now living under Grace.
Galatians 5:14 The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Romans 13:8 Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, these people exist. and even if they didn't.....me and you can show the way.

Love our neighbors as ourselves. Love doesnt force anything on another.

Would you allow speeding or drunk driving to be a choice that you did not try to exert your will against? How about dog fighting or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] fighting? I am sorry but my own ability to mind my own business has limits. Loving one's neighbor may well at times involve keeping that neighbor from doing whatever that neighbor desires to do.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Wasn't this thread, the OP, about the additional cost of raising and educating all the babies
that pro-life policies would create in poor single female household families that working
people would pay for with taxes? Post#1 ?

No. You missed the point if you thought the taxes were only about abortion.

 

[A_Thinker]

Would you allow speeding or drunk driving to be a choice that you did not try to exert your will against? How about dog fighting or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] fighting? I am sorry but my own ability to mind my own business has limits. Loving one's neighbor may well at times involve keeping that neighbor from doing whatever that neighbor desires to do.

Or it my involve stopping one neighbor ... from harming another neighbor ...

 

[RaymondG]

Would you allow speeding or drunk driving to be a choice that you did not try to exert your will against? How about dog fighting or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] fighting? I am sorry but my own ability to mind my own business has limits. Loving one's neighbor may well at times involve keeping that neighbor from doing whatever that neighbor desires to do.

I would say what I believe, just like you are now.....but I would not Force one to never drive a car, nor force another to never drink...just because i believe there is a chance they may do it together one day. I would tell them the law and leave them to their free will and God.

Now if you are trying to make people think agreeing with me would mean watching someone go in a car drunk and yelling "free will!" then there is no need to continue the discussion. You dont give your point more validity by resorting to ridiculous claims, if one opposes; in fact, the opposite occurs.

 

[Cuddles333]

If pro-life supporters would financially and spiritually support all pregnancies fully,
then the pro-choice argument would evaporate.

Becasue the pro-choice argument is really about finances and social support
for an endless number of children per family who are avoiding birth control.

And it's also about women having reproductive decisions for themselves.
As soon as technology allows us, we will be able to pay for every fertilized
egg to reach maturity without women involved. We can just go grab those
eggs and raise the kids ourselves.

This is why Pro-Life position is really Pro-Birth position..... only.

 

[chevyontheriver]

"Bad" is subjective. But I understand. You would like people to be forced to DO what you believe is right, regardless of what they feel or think about it. Sounds like a good motto for a dictator. This sounds right and good for abortion and murder etc... But what happens when the dictator wants to take away bibles and churches? Would you feel the same way? Or does your feelings of "make them do it, do care what they believe" only apply if the enforcer is the right denomination of Christian?

OK. You've played a fun 'devil's advocate'.

 

[RaymondG]

OK. You've played a fun 'devil's advocate'.

YAY, so I win? Not quite. You see, for me to not be a hippo, I'd have to also support your decision to try to force pro-life on others......as it is your free will to do so.......and I would have the exact same dialogue with another had they wrote, you should not do what you are doing. I would only say that I believe that your choices will come back around and affect you in a way that may be totally unrelated in topic, but very much related in principle.
I think one is closer to the truth when their position doesn't have to change with the circumstance.

 

[Wolf_Says]

What is a pro-choice Christian you ask?

Easy, NOT.A.CHRISTIAN.

Good day.

 

[SkyWriting]

I think one is closer to the truth when their position doesn't have to change with the circumstance.

So you're saying that circumstances like
how did conception happen
when did conception happen
how old the mother is
how old the male is
who the male is
what condition the fetus is in
what is the health of the mother
what are the finances of the mother
what are the finances of the male
what support structure is in place to raise the child
what health care is available for the mother
how many children already from this mother
how many children already in thsi family
if the conception was voluntary
if the conception was planned
how much food is available in the area
how much violence is in the area

are all considerations to ignore?

 

[SkyWriting]

No. You missed the point if you thought the taxes were only about abortion.

I made no connection at all about tax money being used for abortions.
But I included a link to the OP for anyone to re-read it.

 

[SkyWriting]

What is a pro-choice Christian you ask?
Easy, NOT.A.CHRISTIAN.

Sorry. Forum rules don't allow for that conclusion.

But here is a site that may cover the OP question:
Catholics For Choice: Home page

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Being a pro-choice christians is like someone being a pro-rape christian or a pro-murder christian. Just can't exist. Unless the person is ok with allowing various sins just because the world pressure them into thinking Gods law doesn't matter when it comes to moral things.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is why Pro-Life position is really Pro-Birth position..... only.

Being a pro-choice christians is like someone being a pro-rape christian or a pro-murder christian. Just can't exist. Unless the person is ok with allowing various sins just because the world pressure them into thinking Gods law doesn't matter when it comes to moral things.

There were these two college students, one a paraplegic and the
other a quadriplegic. Both lived in my dorm at school. Both got
pregnant. One had her child and the other was pretty sure she
could not carry to term or raise a child so she had an abortion.

One was run over by a truck as a child and the other had arthritis
and had been using an electric wheelchair since age 9.
One eventually had three children, and the other none.

One was a missouri synod Lutheran, the other attended a local Catholic church.

I realize that pro-life people are already asleep by now becasue
they have no interest in the backstory lives of these ladies.

 

[SkyWriting]

Unless the person is ok with allowing various sins just because the world pressure them into thinking Gods law doesn't matter when it comes to moral things.

Galatians 5:14 The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Romans 13:8 Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law.

 

[Wolf_Says]

So you're saying that circumstances like
how did conception happen
when did conception happen
how old the mother is
how old the male is
who the male is
what condition the fetus is in
what is the health of the mother
what are the finances of the mother
what are the finances of the male
what support structure is in place to raise the child
what health care is available for the mother
how many children already from this mother
how many children already in thsi family
if the conception was voluntary
if the conception was planned
how much food is available in the area
how much violence is in the area

are all considerations to ignore?

Let me introduce you to a little something called Adoption, because it would love to say "Hi!".

To be blunt,

how did conception happen - Doesn't matter as conception has already happened. Now we are dealing with a new human life.
when did conception happen - Once again, does not matter. See above.
how old the mother is - Does not matter, as if you are having sex and ave yet to hit menopause, then one of the consequences is the possibility of getting pregnant.
what is the health of the mother - So far this is the only thing that really matters, and the person should have taken their health into consideration before having sex, whether they were trying to get pregnant or not.
what are the finances of the mother - Not applicable to pregnancy. Rich or poor, you can get pregnant.
what are the finances of the male - Same as above.
what support structure is in place to raise the child - Not applicable, as there is always the choice of Adoption if the mother doesnt think she can raise the child.
what health care is available for the mother - This matters, however there is Medicare and Medicaid for those who cannot afford their own health insurance.
how many children already from this mother - Doesn't matter to the pregnancy, because once again, they should know the risk.
how many children already in thsi family - Same as above.
if the conception was voluntary - Explain to me why the child should be punished if it was or was not? Also, side fact, less than 5% of all abortions are due to rape/incest. Hardly a factor.
if the conception was planned - Does not matter, see above.
how much food is available in the area - Only relevant in 3rd world and developing countries, not first world countries.
how much violence is in the area - Why are you living in a violent place? Move. Does not matter, as there is always Adoption.

Done.

Wolf_Says, out.