What is a pro-choice Christian?

[ambc]

Pro-choice is a deceptive term used by abortion supporters to reframe the killing of unborn babies as an individual right.

People who identify as pro-choice typically vote for left-leaning political parties that want to implement high taxes on people who make good money. To force a successful person to hand over 50% or 60% of his salary to the government is very anti-choice. People should have the right to choose what they do with their own money without the government confiscating most of it.

Why do pro-choice believers say that women have a right to choose an abortion, but think that rich people should not have the right to choose what to do with most of their money? If the pro-choice crowd were honest, their views on choice would be consistent. But they are far from consistent.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is no such thing as a pro-choice Christian.

 

[chevyontheriver]

There is no such thing as a pro-choice Christian.

The term 'pro-choice Christian' is an oxymoron.

 

[A_Thinker]

Pro-choice is a deceptive term used by abortion supporters to reframe the killing of unborn babies as an individual right.

People who identify as pro-choice typically vote for left-leaning political parties that want to implement high taxes on people who make good money. To force a successful person to hand over 50% or 60% of his salary to the government is very anti-choice. People should have the right to choose what they do with their own money without the government confiscating most of it.

Why do pro-choice believers say that women have a right to choose an abortion, but think that rich people should not have the right to choose what to do with most of their money? If the pro-choice crowd were honest, their views on choice would be consistent. But they are far from consistent.

Playing devil's advocate, ... a pro-choice person, at the least, ... is one who does not want punish other women for choosing to have an abortion.

OTOH, even Jesus was willing to "Render unto Caesar ... "

 

[ambc]

There is no such thing as a pro-choice Christian.

The term 'pro-choice Christian' is an oxymoron.

The Bible contains pro-life scripture like in Luke 1:41 where it describes a baby in the womb leaping for joy, suggesting that life begins at conception. So I agree with both of you. But there are a lot of Christians in the United States who vote Democrat and support abortion. My point in making this thread was to draw attention to their inconsistent thinking when they label themselves "pro-choice."

 

[ambc]

Playing devil's advocate, ... a pro-choice person, at the least, ... is one who does not want punish other women for choosing to have an abortion.

OTOH, even Jesus was willing to "Render unto Caesar ... "

You are suggesting that pro-lifers want to punish women for having abortions, which isn't true. Many pro-life advocates believe that women who get abortions are themselves victims, and the real culprits are the doctors who kill the unborn and liberals who mislead women into thinking that abortion is "just a choice" like choosing which neighborhood to live in.

And what does "render undo Caesar" have anything to do with the subject at hand? Are you suggesting that Matthew 22:21 is telling Christians to support or at least tolerate abortion just because it's the law of the land? In Nazi Germany, killing Jews and other "undermensch" was the law of the land at the time. That does not mean German Christians in the '30s and '40s should have supported or tolerated genocide because the Bible teaches to obey authority in various parts of the New Testament.

 

[RaymondG]

A Pro-choice christian, I guess would be a christian who believes that people have the right to use the free will God gave them. God doesn't force anyone to do anything, like most christian say when asked about why we go to hell. So why would a Christian try force their will on anyone else.....via shame, ridicule, law or any other method?

 

[chevyontheriver]

The Bible contains pro-life scripture like in Luke 1:41 where it describes a baby in the womb leaping for joy, suggesting that life begins at conception. So I agree with both of you. But there are a lot of Christians in the United States who vote Democrat and support abortion. My point in making this thread was to draw attention to their inconsistent thinking when they label themselves "pro-choice."

Yes, it is inconsistent thinking for one to claim to be both 'pro-choice' and 'Christian'. One needs to 'choose' one or the other.

Now there are many reasons people vote for Democrats. They might have been raised by Democrats, as I was. They might like the pro-labor positions Democrats had until recently. They might like the old Democrat slogans about being for the 'little guy'. They might like the idea of taxing rich people more. They might vote that way out of concern for the environment. There might be several reasons, none of them being an affirmation of abortion. So not every Democratic voter is automatically a supporter of abortion. For many of them it is an uncomfortable compromise. It's a compromise I could not continue to make, so I left that party behind.

Should all Democratic voters leave that party behind? I think so. The time is ripe for new political parties. A socially conservative, environmentally concerned, small government party ought to be a big thing. It's time for people to be unsettled with the political parties we have now.

If there was an alternative to the Democrats as they are now (abortion, gender bending, big government) and the Republicans as they are now (Trump encumbered big government talkers) I think many people who have made a deal with the devil to be Democrats could renounce that deal and escape their compromises with abortion. Now some really are 'pro-choice' and they can still pretend to be Christian in one of the declining liberal denominations which consider abortion to be a sacrament.

 

[chevyontheriver]

A Pro-choice christian, I guess would be a christian who believes that people have the right to use the free will God gave them. God doesn't force anyone to do anything, like most christian say when asked about why we go to hell. So why would a Christian try force their will on anyone else.....via shame, ridicule, law or any other method?

I have the free will God gave me, and yet if I used that to start killing people, or robbing banks, or even regularly driving up and down the road at 110 miles an hour, there would be a bit of an uproar if I was not stopped from doing it by the law. It's my free will. God's not stopping me. Why would Christians want to stop me?

 

[RaymondG]

I have the free will God gave me, and yet if I used that to start killing people, or robbing banks, or even regularly driving up and down the road at 110 miles an hour, there would be a bit of an uproar if I was not stopped from doing it by the law. It's my free will. God's not stopping me. Why would Christians want to stop me?

God will stop you. If you live by the sword you will die by it. What you do to others will be done to you. It's the law.

However my comment was about taking away your right to choose.....not stopping you from continuing to commit crimes after you have decided that you want to continue doing them.

It seems that you have a belief of morality and if you can force them on others, you will do whatever is in your power to do so.

I, for one, wouldnt want to be confined by the thoughts of others.....so i try not to push mine on others as well.

Im sure you can think of other religions that have rules you wouldnt want forced on you.......so why is it ok for you to force your rules on others? Have you deemed yourself more moral than others and therefore have the right....when others...not so much?

 

[A_Thinker]

You are suggesting that pro-lifers want to punish women for having abortions, which isn't true. Many pro-life advocates believe that women who get abortions are themselves victims, and the real culprits are the doctors who kill the unborn and liberals who mislead women into thinking that abortion is "just a choice" like choosing which neighborhood to live in.

I might be suggesting that some pro-lifers wish to punish women for having abortions, ... though not that all of them do.

I don't feel that the government should support abortion, either through support for Planned Parenthood, ... or for insurance coverage for abortion.

I used to be a supporter of the Republican party (all through the Reagan/Bush Sr./Clinton/Bush Jr. presidencies), ... until it became evident that they weren't going to be successful at changing the government's support of abortion. Now I favor actions like the support of competitive facilities (i.e. Crisis Pregnancy Centers).

In the meantime, the Republican Party has developed/exacebated its own issues, which have served to take abortion off of the table as a major difference between the parties.

 

[A_Thinker]

And what does "render undo Caesar" have anything to do with the subject at hand? Are you suggesting that Matthew 22:21 is telling Christians to support or at least tolerate abortion just because it's the law of the land?

You mentioned taxation in your first post (i.e. handing 50-60% of one's salary to the government).

 

[chevyontheriver]

God will stop you. If you live by the sword you will die by it. What you do to others will be done to you. It's the law.

However my comment was about taking away your right to choose.....not stopping you from continuing to commit crimes after you have decided that you want to continue doing them.

It seems that you have a belief of morality and if your can force this on others, you will do whatever is in your power to do so.

I, for one, wouldnt want to be confined by the thoughts of others.....so i try not to push mine on others as well.

Im sure you can think of other religions that have rules you wouldnt want forced on you.......so why is it ok for you to force your rules on others? Have you deemed yourself more moral than others and therefore have the right....when others...not so much?

I, for one, like the idea that rules about murder, bank robbing, and speeding are enforced by rule of law. Call that forcing my view of morality on others. I'm fine with that.

 

[RaymondG]

I, for one, like the idea that rules about murder, bank robbing, and speeding are enforced by rule of law. Call that forcing my view of morality on others. I'm fine with that.

You like that people need to be told that murder and stealing and robbing is wrong? Well if you like that, you probably wont like Heaven......There, no one needs those rules.

You are trying to make your side sound "right" by throwing out alarming words like, Murder and Stealing and robbing. Why not just speak truth?

I said nothing about rules and laws....only free will. What do you have against the free will that God gave? Why should i be convinced that someone using their free will to do whatever they will and face whatever consequence thereafter, is wrong?

If two disagree on any point how do you decide which side to force on the other?

 

[SkyWriting]

Pro-choice is a deceptive term used by abortion supporters to reframe the killing of unborn babies as an individual right. People who identify as pro-choice typically vote for left-leaning political parties that want to implement high taxes on people who make good money. To force a successful person to hand over 50% or 60% of his salary to the government is very anti-choice. People should have the right to choose what they do with their own money without the government confiscating most of it.

As far as making a financial case:

A large part of tax money is for education in the cities, so eliminating abortions for the poor will not reduce the tax burden for the 14 -18 years the poor children are in school. Eliminating abortions will increase the number of children born to single mothers, who will not be working to support the children or paying taxes as their single parent household grow ever larger.

And many of them get pregnant before they finish high school. This only increases taxes on those who are working. Pro-life policies will increase taxes on the working class.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no such thing as a pro-choice Christian.

God gives us the choice to believe in Him or to not believe. God is pro-choice in this matter
becasue He feels that having a choice is more important than being a slave to laws.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Why should i be convinced that someone using their free will to do whatever they will and face whatever consequence thereafter, is wrong?

Perhaps if it harms someone else? Maybe?

 

[RaymondG]

Perhaps if it harms someone else? Maybe?

So how would you decide who to take free will from? Who are more inclined to harm someone if they keep it? Taking alway the ability to choose for one self is close to slavery. I do not wish to make another slave to my thoughts of morality no matter how good I think my thoughts are, or how likely I think others would stray if not forcefully held my good moral standards. But you are free to desire this for yourself.

 

[Living Soul]

When I say that I'm pro-life, I simply mean I am interested in saving the lives of both humans involved in the birth, not just the mother's life. Obviously more than just two lives in the cases of multiple births.

When someone says they are pro-choice, they are only interested in preserving the lifestyle of the mother alone. God's gift of life is of no consequence in that choice.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So how would you decide who to take free will from? Who are more inclined to harm someone if they keep it? Taking alway the ability to choose for one self is close to slavery. I do not wish to make another slave to my thoughts of morality no matter how good I think my thoughts are, or how likely I think others would stray if not forcefully held my good moral standards. But you are free to desire this for yourself.

I don't care particularly to control what a person thinks, but I do want them to control their bad actions or have the law control those actions for them. If that makes me pro-slavery, I'm fine with that.