What is a pro-choice Christian?

[FireDragon76]

The Bible contains pro-life scripture like in Luke 1:41 where it describes a baby in the womb leaping for joy, suggesting that life begins at conception. So I agree with both of you. But there are a lot of Christians in the United States who vote Democrat and support abortion. My point in making this thread was to draw attention to their inconsistent thinking when they label themselves "pro-choice."

Life is complicated, and our ethics has to be complicated too.

Obviously, abortion involves conflicting goods. A woman's autonomy over her own body, and the perceived sanctity of human life.

 

[grasping the after wind]

A Pro-choice christian, I guess would be a christian who believes that people have the right to use the free will God gave them. God doesn't force anyone to do anything, like most christian say when asked about why we go to hell. So why would a Christian try force their will on anyone else.....via shame, ridicule, law or any other method?

I agree that pro choice ought to mean that but we all know it actually is a term that is used to be equivalent to being in favor of access to legal abortion. As for the definition you and I would like to give it , Does such a person actually exist? Does even one person alive not wish to force their will upon others in some form or another?

 

[ambc]

When someone says they are pro-choice, they are only interested in preserving the lifestyle of the mother alone. God's gift of life is of no consequence in that choice.

As I pointed out in my original post, pro-choice advocates say women should be free to choose abortion, but they don't think financially successful people should be free to choose how to spend their money because they typically favor placing high, burdensome taxes on the rich. I think dishonesty is the reason for the inconsistency. When someone says they're pro-choice, they really mean to say they want to sleep around without the possibility of getting pregnant.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Life is complicated, and our ethics has to be complicated too.

Obviously, abortion involves conflicting goods. A woman's autonomy over her own body, and the perceived sanctity of human life.

why did you not state it as the perceived autonomy of a woman over her own body? or state the other simply as the sanctity of human life? Do you think one is merely a perception while the other is a certain reality?

 

[ambc]

A Pro-choice christian, I guess would be a christian who believes that people have the right to use the free will God gave them. God doesn't force anyone to do anything, like most christian say when asked about why we go to hell. So why would a Christian try force their will on anyone else.....via shame, ridicule, law or any other method?

God gave me the free will to buy semi-automatic rifle and go on a civilian shooting spree. If I feel like going out and killing dozens of people, why should Christians who oppose murder force their will on me via shame, ridicule, law, or any other method? Because murder is wrong. And abortion is murder.

 

[FireDragon76]

God gave me the free will to buy semi-automatic rifle and go on a civilian shooting spree. If I feel like going out and killing dozens of people, why should Christians who oppose murder force their will on me via shame, ridicule, law, or any other method? Because murder is wrong. And abortion is murder.

Murder is unlawful killing.

 

[FireDragon76]

why did you not state it as the perceived autonomy of a woman over her own body? or state the other simply as the sanctity of human life? Do you think one is merely a perception while the other is a certain reality?

For too long a woman's right to autonomy over her own body has been taken for granted.

 

[1stcenturylady]

God gives us the choice to believe in Him or to not believe. God is pro-choice in this matter
becasue He feels that having a choice is more important than being a slave to laws.

We're not talking about free will. We are talking about murdering babies.

 

[1stcenturylady]

When I say that I'm pro-life, I simply mean I am interested in saving the lives of both humans involved in the birth, not just the mother's life. Obviously more than just two lives in the cases of multiple births.

When someone says they are pro-choice, they are only interested in preserving the lifestyle of the mother alone. God's gift of life is of no consequence in that choice.

Yes, it is a totally selfish, irresponsible, hedonistic CHOICE.

 

[AlexDTX]

Pro-choice is a deceptive term used by abortion supporters to reframe the killing of unborn babies as an individual right.

People who identify as pro-choice typically vote for left-leaning political parties that want to implement high taxes on people who make good money. To force a successful person to hand over 50% or 60% of his salary to the government is very anti-choice. People should have the right to choose what they do with their own money without the government confiscating most of it.

Why do pro-choice believers say that women have a right to choose an abortion, but think that rich people should not have the right to choose what to do with most of their money? If the pro-choice crowd were honest, their views on choice would be consistent. But they are far from consistent.

A pro-choice Christian woman is a one who chooses abstinence, whereas a pro-choice Christian man chooses celibacy until marriage.

 

[grasping the after wind]

For too long a woman's right to autonomy over her own body has been taken for granted.

I don't see how this answers my question.

 

[Archivist]

According to a 2017 Pew poll, a majority of those who identify themselves as Catholic, Black Protestant and White Mainline Protestant believe that abortion should be legal in most or all cases. Only among white Evangelical Protestants do a majority believe that abortion should be illegal in most or all cases. The poll can be found here: Public Opinion on Abortion. The third poll is about abortion and religion.

It sounds as if some on here are being rather judgmental in saying that one cannot be a pro-choice Christian.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Bible contains pro-life scripture like in Luke 1:41 where it describes a baby in the womb leaping for joy, suggesting that life begins at conception. So I agree with both of you. But there are a lot of Christians in the United States who vote Democrat and support abortion. My point in making this thread was to draw attention to their inconsistent thinking when they label themselves "pro-choice."

The point is are they Christians or only think they are, because there is no such thing as a murdering Christian. Period. We all need to work out our own salvation - or damnation. It takes more than just believing Jesus is the Son of God - even the demons believe and tremble. Those who make Jesus the LORD of their lives do not believe in murder, because they have the mind of Christ. Those who murder still have the mind of the devil.

 

[Fantine]

The term pro-life is equally wrong, and I believe even more so. In terms of voting, "pro-life?" people vote for policies that promote man-made climate change, deregulation that has the potential to poison our water and food and make every product we buy less safe, decreased funds for education, child hunger, and health care, laissez-faire business policies that prevent the working poor from being able to earn living wages--and not even think about saving for retirement or health care, sending immigrants back to places where they were starving and struggling....I could go on, obviously.

While there shouldn't be an "either-or" game presented by politicians, it is impossible for me to think of self-proclaimed "pro-lifers" as being pro-life. Am I alone when I see a car covered with pro-life stickers and think of all the things they are "against," getting angrier and angrier as I pile up the list mentally?

 

[A_Thinker]

As I pointed out in my original post, pro-choice advocates say women should be free to choose abortion, but they don't think financially successful people should be free to choose how to spend their money because they typically favor placing high, burdensome taxes on the rich. I think dishonesty is the reason for the inconsistency. When someone says they're pro-choice, they really mean to say they want to sleep around without the possibility of getting pregnant.

You're conflating (2) separate issues here.

And I think your last statement is an example of your being overly simplistic and judgmental.

The abortion issue is not simple. It involves significant issues on both sides of the aisle. Equating pro-choicers to baby-killers ... or saying that pro-lifers care nothing for the women involved does a disservice to the issue. Using such language only divides further, rather than allowing a reasonable discussion.

 

[grasping the after wind]

According to a 2017 Pew poll, a majority of those who identify themselves as Catholic, Black Protestant and White Mainline Protestant believe that abortion should be legal in most or all cases. Only among white Evangelical Protestants do a majority believe that abortion should be illegal in most or all cases. The poll can be found here: Public Opinion on Abortion. The third poll is about abortion and religion.

It sounds as if some on here are being rather judgmental in saying that one cannot be a pro-choice Christian.

What percentage of those Christians favor Christians actually having abortions? I would submit that not wanting to have secular laws punishing those involved in abortion does not necessarily make one Pro Choice. I for one would consider myself anti abortion yet i am not interested in trying to outlaw it through secular means. I expect that those that have contended that being Pro Choice is unChristian define pro choice as equivalent to pro abortion. As, though there are many that only do not want laws against it because they are not looking to enforce their position on a secular society , there are many on the 'pro choice ' side that actually are pro abortion and actually anti choice in almost all other areas outside of abortion. This is shown by their actual stances supporting policies that encourage people to have abortions and restrict counseling in order to avoid advising against having abortions while their words claim to want it only legal but rare their actions proclaim they want it legal and abundant. The terms we use are not terms that can actually be reliably used to define specific groups of people with like opinions. IMO the original terms of pro and anti abortion are much more truthful and useful and less deceptive. One thing I do believe is that hiding one's truth behind euphemisms is unChristian. If one is pro abortion one ought to admit it and not pretend it is choice one is championing especially when one is not willing to allow choices elsewhere. If one is anti abortion one ought to admit it and not pretend it is life that one is championing when other life is not as much one's concern. If one is pro life in reality and cares as much about preserving all lives as one cares about preserving the life of the child in the womb then one can honestly call oneself pro life. If one is actually pro choice and would allow all choices to be legal while not being more concerned with a right to abortion above all else then one can honestly call oneself pro choice. I have already expressed my opinion that there are none that meet this last criterion.

 

[A_Thinker]

The term pro-life is equally wrong, and I believe even more so. In terms of voting, "pro-life?" people vote for policies that promote man-made climate change, deregulation that has the potential to poison our water and food and make every product we buy less safe, decreased funds for education, child hunger, and health care, laissez-faire business policies that prevent the working poor from being able to earn living wages--and not even think about saving for retirement or health care, sending immigrants back to places where they were starving and struggling....I could go on, obviously.

As you say, ... the political landscape is complex ...

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Playing devil's advocate, ... a pro-choice person, at the least, ... is one who does not want punish other women for choosing to have an abortion.

OTOH, even Jesus was willing to "Render unto Caesar ... "

pro-choice person - Weak in their convictions, because not empowered by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

As I pointed out in my original post, pro-choice advocates say women should be free to choose abortion, but they don't think financially successful people should be free to choose how to spend their money because they typically favor placing high, burdensome taxes on the rich. I think dishonesty is the reason for the inconsistency. When someone says they're pro-choice, they really mean to say they want to sleep around without the possibility of getting pregnant.

or take responsibility for the outcome of intercourse

 

[SkyWriting]

We're not talking about free will. We are talking about murdering babies.

Wasn't this thread, the OP, about the additional cost of raising and educating all the babies
that pro-life policies would create in poor single female household families that working
people would pay for with taxes? Post#1 ?