What is a free mason?? /need advice?

[billmcelligott]

Thadeus

if that is what you derived from the things I said. Then I have failed miserably.

Then it could be , your mind had that conclusion before I had finished. You will have to work that one out.

I am very happy with my life Thad, I do not need saving.

This practice of blasphemy and Paganism blends in society through fellowship and charity then wages war against the teachings of the Holy Bible.

Well thats a new one, so to be nice and helpful to your fellow creatures is evil.

Thad if anything I do is evil, then may God strike me down this minute.

You have a cheek , talking on the judgement issue, I am not judging you am I.

 

[ej]

Ultimately, Masonry is incompatible with Christianity.

But so are a lot of modern practices - like any topic on these boards, there is no clear answer.

If I were to assess my life, I do things incompatible with Christianity too - I'd admire someone who could claim otherwise!

It's hypocritical of us Christians to tell ANYONE they are wrong. Christianity is clouded with mystery and historical error, we can't deny that.

I'm a woman. Masonry will always be a mystery to me. Perhaps I shouldn't dwell on it. My grandfather left his money to charity throught the Freemasons, and for that, I'll leave myself with a positive view of Masonry.

Thanks for your input Bill
Peace be with you
Emma

 

[billmcelligott]

May your Grandfather's charity be returmed to you 100 times over emmajane.

But he left you more than that, an example of unselfish behaviour, what a wonderful gift.

If you ever want to butt heads with an old Mason let me know.

Peace be with you also.

 

[Thaddeus]

Doesn't the secrecy of worship make Masonry of the occult?

Isn't it blasphemy to say that there IS more than one God?

The invention of GAOTU is born from that logic. If Masons invented GAOTU then wouldn't it be considered Pagan?

Bill I do understand that each Mason can take the plurality out of the name of GAOTU but then
A Christian Mason must also allow his God to be equal with all other gods under the umbrella of GAOTU. Then it's GAOTU that Masons worship.

 

[Thaddeus]

Well I worry about you Bill, read that Judgement poem again for me. I'll pray for you.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Emmajane,

Blessings on you! What a blessing your grandfather has been. I don't know if you have caught my earlier posts, but I can truthfully say, and in spite of all the voices that will rise up in protest, that the Christians in my life who have also been Masons, have been the greatest blessing you can imagine. I can't imagine what my life would have been if it had not been for a godly pastor who started taking the youth to a Christian camp in the summers. I had started sprouting some wild oats in my life, was expelled for a week in the ninth grade after cutting classes, was hanging with the wrong bunch and about to get worse. It was the summer after that school year I first went to that camp, and it was there I first gave my heart to the Lord. It was the following year at the same camp that I first felt the call to ministry. The president of that camp had been bringing a flock of children from a church he formerly pastored, and the church he was pastoring at that time had an even larger group coming.

These special men had a natural drawing attraction for young people, and they used that attraction to draw them to a place where the Spirit of God was working in a mighty way. The funny thing was, our pastor looked almost exactly like Jackie Gleason, and the camp president looked almost exactly like Phil Silvers. They played it to the hilt, not by imitation, but by using their God-given gifts of humor, making it a joy to be around them and around that camp. That special place was a blessing, and I'm willing to say that for every young person there, it was the same as it was for me, those 10 days were my favorite days of the entire year.

Another blessing for my life: my family has an inherited trait that shows up randomly in descendants on my father's side of the family. The little finger and the ring finger, usually on the left hand but sometimes on both, are grown together. I remember my father's left hand being that way, because we used to play baseball at my grandmother's house and he could not wear a baseball glove. Out of 6 children he had, my younger sister was the only one who had the trait. But unlike my father and other relatives before, she had the advantage of a new (at the time) surgery to separate the fingers and add skin grafts so that the fingers could grow normally. My parents were hardly able to afford the surgery, but through the Shriners Hospital in Greenville, SC, the surgery was done completely free of charge. Ask my sister if she has a good opinion of them, I can't imagine her saying no.

Satanic? demonic? I beg to differ. To paraphrase one of the sages of our time: "Demonic is as demonic does." Jesus said, "By their fruits you shall know them." I hear a lot being bandied about concerning rituals and words, but I see no one showing evil results. That "missing link" is pretty telling.

Wayne

 

[Rev Wayne]

To all:


Just ran across this poem in a masonic magazine put out in Illinois:

REFLECTIONS
​

If we believe that life has meaning and purpose

And we do

If we believe that the Giver of Life loves us

And we do

If we believe that divine love lasts

And we do

If we believe that justice, mercy, and humility endure

And we do

If we believe that God so loved the world to give God’s only Son

And we do

If we believe that Jesus is the transcript in time of God in eternity

And we do

If we believe grace and forgiveness are the heart of the universe

And we do

Then we shall trust God over the valley of the shadow of death

And we do

Then we shall trust that love is stronger than death

And we do

Then we shall trust the mysterious promise of resurrectioni

And we do

Then we shall trust the faith of Christ, relying on faith alone

And we do

Then we shall trust the enduring worth of personality

And we do

Then we shall trust that just deeds, merciful words are never vain

And we do

Then we shall trust the Giver of Life to give eternal life

And we do

Then we shall trust the source of love to love eternally

And we do

Then we shall trust that at death we rest protected in God’s embrace

And we do

Then we shall trust in God

And we do

Rev. Bob Hill, pastor

United Methodist Church

Rochester, NY



Am I mistaken? Does this not thoroughly live and breathe Christian beliefs? No mention whether the pastor who wrote it was also a Mason, but it does not seem to have mattered.

Wayne

 

[Thaddeus]

I certainly don't have a problem with that poem. It's lovely.

 

[billmcelligott]

Doesn't the secrecy of worship make Masonry of the occult?

The masonic Lodge is not a place where I go to worship God, there are just a few prayers of thanks in the Lodge. No more so than you would find at school, or at Scout meeting. So do we say that anyone who says Grace is an occult follower ?

Isn't it blasphemy to say that there IS more than one God?

No one has said there is more than one God, the structure just allows enough elbow room for other faiths to join in. No more than at a Combined church meeting.

The invention of GAOTU is born from that logic. If Masons invented GAOTU then wouldn't it be considered Pagan?

You can have a point with, re-naming of the desription of God if this were a Christian Church, but that is not what we want. we want to invite the world into our home. What else could be done , "Oh you can come in , but you have to be Christians". If you want a Church, go to Church do not come to join Masonry.

Bill I do understand that each Mason can take the plurality out of the name of GAOTU but then
A Christian Mason must also allow his God to be equal with all other gods under the umbrella of GAOTU. Then it's GAOTU that Masons worship.

Well goe we will just have to see this point differently, I do not pray to a GAOTU, I talk about him maybe in a lecture, I listen to how great he is, because he , the GAOTU is in the living story which is Masonry. No prayer ends with GAOTU. In my mind and heart I see no other than my God , my Jesus, my simple faith. It is not I that makes it complicated. It is those who wish to put conditions on my simple faith. my best explanation is, if Jesus was here now I do not believe he would condemn Freemasonry. Why, because man can not live by bread alone. Why, suffer unto Caesar the things that are Caesars. Why, because I believe he was a fun loving individual that could see the lighter side of life. Because Brotherly Love Relief and Truth are a reason to be decent, kind and generous. Lets be honest there is far to little of that today.

 

[Plan 9]

I certainly don't have a problem with that poem. It's lovely.

Ithink it's lovely, too! Thank you for sharing it, Rev. Wayne!

I think that Thad and I may be fellow poetry lovers, so feel free to post more.

 

[Thaddeus]

I talk about him maybe in a lecture

How can you lecture on GAOTU without identifying just who that is.

Who are you lecturing to? If GAOTU is God for you and you are the one lecturing, wouldn't the people you're lecturing to have to be of the same faith to understand what you are saying?

OR

Are you not really lecturing about God, but lecturing on a set of agreed upon principles? The principles that define GAOTU for all faiths to accept.

 

[billmcelligott]

How can you lecture on GAOTU without identifying just who that is.

Who are you lecturing to? If GAOTU is God for you and you are the one lecturing, wouldn't the people you're lecturing to have to be of the same faith to understand what you are saying?

OR

Are you not really lecturing about God, but lecturing on a set of agreed upon principles? The principles that define GAOTU for all faiths to accept.

Thadeus

I will try to expound on what I ahve said before, I hope I said it on this thread.

Masonry is a living, theatrical story. In order to tell the story we have a few what we term lectures. you can find these if you search to web.

The story is about the stabilty you find in good friendship, and the fidelity of a good friend.

The secrecy , of Masonry, that everyone seems to be in a panic about is a test of merit.

I will tell you a secret about me Thadeus, I expect you not to repeat it to anyone else. If I find you have spurned the faith and trust I placed in you, then to me you are not a good friend.

That is the most precise concept I can give for the secrets of Masonry. A test of Merit.

That is what we mean when we say , it is a society with secrets , not a secret society.

 

[Super Gnat]

Could I ask a general question? If you can't answer it, that's okay.

What sort of secrets do you guys tell? Are they secrets about oneself, or "secrets" that have been passed down? If it is a secret about oneself, would it be something big like "I cheated on my wife", or something small like "I ate those cookies in first grade"? Or can it be either?

Like I said, I understand if you can't answer this. I was just curious.

 

[billmcelligott]

Could I ask a general question? If you can't answer it, that's okay.

What sort of secrets do you guys tell? Are they secrets about oneself, or "secrets" that have been passed down? If it is a secret about oneself, would it be something big like "I cheated on my wife", or something small like "I ate those cookies in first grade"? Or can it be either?

Like I said, I understand if you can't answer this. I was just curious.

No, super, its not at all devious. Lets give you an example.

I say to you , put your hand on your head and then say Humpty Dumpty. Now you must not say this to anyone other than another Mason. If you keep this little secret then , I will know I can trust you. It is important to me that I know I can trust you.

Then the next day you bump into one of your friends and you say to him " look what Bill showed me yesterday, Masonic secrets".

How long do you think before I find out you are not the person I thought you were.

Well the real secrets are just as daft.

 

[Plan 9]

No, super, its not at all devious. Lets give you an example.

I say to you , put your hand on your head and then say Humpty Dumpty. Now you must not say this to anyone other than another Mason. If you keep this little secret then , I will know I can trust you. It is important to me that I know I can trust you.

Then the next day you bump into one of your friends and you say to him " look what Bill showed me yesterday, Masonic secrets".

How long do you think before I find out you are not the person I thought you were.

Well the real secrets are just as daft.

Where I live, Fraternal organizations abound: not just Masons, but the Elks, the Eagles, the Moose, etc. and they all have their own daft secrets, so there are always jokes going around. My favorite as both a child and an adult is the one where Person 1 says to Person 2, "Want me ta show ya the secret handshake of the American Dairy Association??" Person 2 says "YEAH!" Then, as they shake hands, Person 1 shakes Person 2's hand with his right while pulling each of Person 2's fingers in turn with his left.







Okay...so it's funnier when it happens to you than when it's described. Still, it's funny.







C'mon. Someone please laugh.

 

[billmcelligott]

Well I laughed,

Is that allowed ??

It would be even funnier if it turned out to be true.

 

[Plan 9]

Well I laughed,

Is that allowed ??

It would be even funnier if it turned out to be true.

and how do we know it, isn't, hmmm???


Be sure to try that out on your friends; just keep a straight face and say your American friend who belonged told you the secret. If that's not precisely true, it is a fact that my father, as head of the Missouri Restaurant Association once crowned the Ozarks Queen of Dairy Products and I wish I had a scanner to show you that photo! LOL
Dad was a Rotarian until he retired and then I came home one day to find he'd joined the Elks. I've always wanted to ask him if he has a hat with horns sticking out of it, or something, but he couldn't tell me any daft Elk secrets and it would be wrong to tempt him to do so. He did show me the new lodge when they finished it and, get this, Bill:
you have to have a key card to get into the meeting room. How cool is that? LOL My dad worked so hard that he never got to belong to anything non-work related or serve in his church until he was in his seventies and then he went for it!

 

[Thaddeus]

Are you saying that the lecturer is a narrator? I don't quite follow you. I'm kind of lost by all this.

Does a worshipful master have anything to do with worship?

 

[billmcelligott]

Are you saying that the lecturer is a narrator? I don't quite follow you. I'm kind of lost by all this.

Does a worshipful master have anything to do with worship?

The story is told by a variety of means. Imagine you are in a small theatre watching a play. An actor is the central Character , and there is a narator that comes on stage at different times to explain the plot.

Worshipful Master is an Old English form of address to A very respected skilled craftesman.

Definition

worshipful [Show phonetics]
adjective
1 MAINLY UK FORMAL Worshipful used in the title of societies of skilled workers or some important officials:
the Worshipful Company of Silversmiths

2 FORMAL giving someone or something great respect or admiration

Definition

master (SKILLED PERSON) [Show phonetics]
noun [C]
1 a person who is very skilled in a particular job or activity:
He was a master of disguise.

2 a famous and very skilled painter:
This painting is clearly the work of a master.

master [Show phonetics]
adjective [before noun]
extremely skilled:
a master craftsman
a master chef

 

[Thaddeus]

What is his skill?