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What is a free mason?? /need advice?

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billmcelligott

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Godzman said:
anybody here a mason?
Yes, I am. I usually shorten the name of the potser but in your case I think I had better stick to Godzman.

I see you are interested in the Mormons.

I am not a Mormon , but I have seen a number of interesting debates on various boards between Mormons and other Chritstians. So I understand some of thr detail but not much.

From what I have gained , there are a number of similarities between Masonry and Mormonism, the fiath was strted by a Mason. Who we presume could not fullfill his spititual life as it was.

There are many Mormons that are also Masons.

If you want in depth knowledge I would have to ask others and that can take some time.
 
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billmcelligott

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Thaddeus said:
Plan 9
I'm reading a poem by Rob Morris clled "The Level and the Square"

"
We act upon the Plumb,--'tis the orders of our Guide,
The tools of the biulder / Stonemason would include a Plumb Rule, to line the stone or timber in an upsight position. He would also use a Level a Squre etc.
We walk upright in virtue's way and lean to neither side;

Th' All-Seeing Eye that reads our hearts doth bear us witness true;
The all seeing eye of God that watches over us all.
That we still try to honor God and give each man his due."

What does the "Plumb" and "All-Seeing Eye" mean?
 
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Thaddeus

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There's a World where all are equal,--we are hurrying towards it fast,

We shall meet upon the Level, there, when the gates of Death are passed:

We shall stand before the Orient, and our Master will be there,

To try the blocks we offer with His own unerring Square.[/justify]

The Level doesn't seem like a protractor type of device, or carpenter tool. How can you meet on it after death?
 
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billmcelligott

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Like I said at the top of this new post, I'm not accusing you of anything. And I realize that you do not speak on behalf of all Masons.
(yes I take your point , I just emphasise what i say, with a push.)
Can you understand the anti-mason's frustration in pointing out the words of Albert Pike and his "Luciferian" remarks in his book, and then no Mason takes ownership of Pike and his remark? I think it would do the image of Masonry a great service if some would denounce Pike outright, saying "Pike doesn't speak for me and my group.", for example.
(yes, but like as was pointed out to me , you have to look at the entire book not just the couple of sentances that seem double edged. We are talking of maybe 2 pages out of 900)
And as you admit that YOU do not speak for all Masons, then you cannot say that all Lodges are Lucifer-free, either. You honestly do not know that all Lodges have replaced "JahBulon" with the name of the Biblical God. You do not know if all lodges have "reinvented" the word JahBulOn.

( well thats why i said , does it matter. Its whats in your heart that counts. The lord knows whats there, is it for any of us to say what is.)
That You and YOUR lodge do not worship Lucifer, I believe you.

But who knows which lodges *may* follow Pike's "Dogmas and Morals" verbatim?
( I find it hard to beleive, that one man wrote a couple of lines 100 years ago. and already that controls what a large section of 6,000.000 Masons do. my old Dad used to say to me, beleive what you see and what you hear, ignore what others tell you they saw and heard.)
Who knows which lodges *may* consider "Jah-Bul-On to be the Syriac name for God, the Canaanite god Baal and the Egyptian God Osirus?
( In my conversations with Masons around the World, from Australia to Nigeria NONE.)


We can't know.
 
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billmcelligott

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geocajun said:
I am an ex freemason (32nd degree AASR member as well). I can tell you from my own searching, that freemasonry is not compatible with Christianity - but it is compatible with deism. so those of you out there who think God has not revealed himself to us will feel at home there.

please read the following articles which outline various Christian churches positions on masonic associations:

Links removed
[font=Arial,Helvetica][font=Arial,Helvetica]
The above links are provided by Freemasonry Watch
[/font][/font]
I take it from the above you are a supporter of David Icke from Freemasonry Watch then geocajun. As all the links are from there.

This being the same David Icke that declared himself to be the New Messiah. Then thought about it and said well we are all the new Messiah really.

Freemasonry Watch supplies such information as , Lizzard men from outer space . Mind control by the illuminati and about 41 books written by David Icke , coincidentally being for sale on every page of the web sites.

I was part of a Group that last month successfully petitioned to have web pages shut down that went into unsubstantiated allegation of Masonic Ritual abuse of children. Then the Forum was shut down, for abuse.

Sorry to be so harsh but you picked on the wrong reference as far as I am concerned. To reference a site that clearly hates Masonry can not be allowed to go unchallenged.
 
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billmcelligott

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Thaddeus said:
There's a World where all are equal,--we are hurrying towards it fast,

We shall meet upon the Level, there, when the gates of Death are passed:

We shall stand before the Orient, and our Master will be there,

To try the blocks we offer with His own unerring Square.[/justify]

The Level doesn't seem like a protractor type of device, or carpenter tool. How can you meet on it after death?
To meet upon the level, means to meet again with respect and love for each other. A level is tool to prove horizontals. Being level with someone, being equal. Not more not less.
 
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billmcelligott said:
To meet upon the level, means to meet again with respect and love for each other. A level is tool to prove horizontals. Being level with someone, being equal. Not more not less.
That's a good play on words, isn't it?
 
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Thaddeus

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We act upon the Plumb,--'tis the orders of our Guide,

We walk upright in virtue's way and lean to neither side;

Th' All-Seeing Eye that reads our hearts doth bear us witness true;

That we still try to honor God and give each man his due.
Few last questions before I go to bed, this poem says a lot of stuff.

Now you said Plumb(don't know why it's capitalized) means like flush? Act upon the flush?

Who is "our guide?"

How does one walk in virtues way exactly?
 
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billmcelligott

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Thadeus

Its poetry, it is for you to interpret.

None of us can get inside the mind of the poet.

but, if you want my opinion :

Who is "our guide?"
Our Lord God
How does one walk in virtues way exactly?
To take a vituous path, according to that laid down for us on the Bible.
 
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billmcelligott

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While we are on the Poetry theme:

Mother Lodge: by Rudyard Kipling

There was Rundle, Station Master, An' Beazeley of the Rail,

An' 'Ackman, commissariat, An' Donkin' o' the Jail;

An' Blake, Conductor-Sargent, our Master twice was 'e,

With 'im that kept the Europe-shop, old Framjee Eduljee.



Outside -- "Sergeant! Sir! Salute! Salaam!"

Inside -- "Brother," an' it doesn't do no 'arm.

We met upon the Level an' we parted on the Square,

An' I was Junior Deacon in my Mother-Lodge out there!



We'd Bola Nath, Accountant, an' Saul the Aden Jew,

An' Din Mohammed, draughtsman, of the Survey Office too;

There was Babu Chuckerbutty, an' Amir Singh the Sikh,

An' Castro from the fittin'-sheds, the Roman Catholick!



We 'adn't good regalia, an' our Lodge was old an' bare,

But we knew the Ancient Landmarks, an' we kep' 'em to a hair;

An' lookin' on it backwards, it often strikes me thus,

There ain't such things as infidels, excep,' per'aps, it's us.



For monthly, after Labour, we'd all sit down and smoke

(We dursn't give no banquits, lest a Brother's caste were broke),

An' man on man got talkin', religion an' the rest,

An' every man comparin' Of the God 'e knew the best.



So man on man got talkin', an' not a Brother stirred

Till mornin' waked the parrots an' that dam' brain-fever-bird;

We'd say 'twas 'ighly curious, an' we'd all ride 'ome to bed,

With Mo'ammed, God, an' Shiva, changin' pickets in our 'ead.



Full oft on Guv'ment service this rovin' foot 'ath pressed,

An' bore fraternal greetin's to the Lodges east an' west,

Accordin' as commanded from Kohat to Singapore,

But I wish that I might see them In my Mother-Lodge once more!



I wish that I might see them, my Brethren black an' brown,

With the trichies smellin' pleasant

An' the hog-darn [cigar-lighter] passin' down;

An' the old khansamah [butler] snorin'

On the bottle-khana [pantry] floor,

Like a Master in good standing

With my Mother-Lodge once more!



Outside -- "Sergeant! Sir! Salute! Salaam!"

Inside -- "Brother", an' it doesn't do no 'arm.

We met upon the Level an' we parted on the Square,

An' I was Junior Deacon in my Mother-Lodge out there!


Now thats a Poem
 
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billmcelligott

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The Judgement Seat

I stood far from the Judgment Seat,
Head bowed in bitter shame;
Within my head words echoed loud,
For I'd my self to blame.


I'd seen the King, and standing there,
Beheld His glorious face,
And just aside in joy supreme,
My friends, saints, saved by grace.


Engulfed in grief, alone, afraid,
My pleading all in vain,
The words reechoed louder now
And burned within my brain--


"Come now,"--and so I'd gone before
The One I'd longed to see;
Said angels, serving near the throne,
"The Master calleth thee."


To give account, what had I said?
"One reason," I was asked,
"Why I'd neglected things of God,
And hurrying, by them passed?"


I then recalled how oft I'd said,
"Oh dear, there is no time,
I'll do it--well, another day"--
And that had been my crime.


I answered not; dumb, full of guilt;
But Jesus knew and said,
"No time to do the things of God?
No time to bow thy head?


"No time to kneel in daily prayer,
Or wait til Him you heard?
No time to pause and meditate
The riches of His Word?


"No time to visit poor or sick;
No time to smile and give
The stranger in your gates a word
Of hope that he might live?


Yet you had time for menial task,
And time to exercise
Your mental powers on common things,
Your home to supervise.


"You'd plenty time to read and talk
Of things which mattered not,
But things which mattered most to God,
You spurned--or just forgot!"


That was enough; I heard no more,
Though words continued long.
My talent lay neglected there;
To Him it did belong.


But I'd forgotten it was His
And thrust it on one side;
And now before the throne it lay,
My face then did I hide.


The saints remained there on His right,
Safe in the Saviour's cleft;
But I was thrust among the ones
Upon the Judge's left.


Those words which burned within my brain
Verdict on guilty crime:
"No place, no hope, no righteous crown:
For you I have no time."


"A dream," you say, yet, but how real,
And what relief to wake,
To find I still have unspent time
Ere Judgment morning break!


For me the Saviour, scourged and scorned,
Up Calv'ry's hill did climb,
What shall I say when He shall ask,
"How has thou spent thy time?"


If this is the poem you referred to the answer is no.

There is a First degree lecture that likens the origins to the Egyptian biulders. There is not a specific connection. Of course there is the Exodus which had something to do with the Egyptians. Like many Masonic history it is clouded in mystery.

I take the principle rather than the actual. I can tell you a story that has no foundation in fact whatsoever, but you will understand the point I wish to make. Humans have been telling stories since time began , with just that purpose in mind. to communicate. Jesus was a Master at telling stories. for just that purpose.
 
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billmcelligott

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Hi Thadeus

yes , I like poetry it has the same symbolistic approach.

Nothing would happen if you reffered to Jesus as your guide to your faith. Your faith is your business. I have had a number of conversations on this point before.
We have some Ex Masons make this their platform for leaving Freemasonry.
However what they wanted was to use Masonry as a soapbox to convert others. That is not acceptable in my opinion. The guys come to a Masonic meeting not a revival. Its nothing to do with religion, its just correct behaviour.
What reaction would I get walking into say a Baptist Church and calling out the wonders of Masonry.
 
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Thaddeus

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billmcelligott said:
What reaction would I get walking into say a Baptist Church and calling out the wonders of Masonry.
LOL That's a funny picture.

I imagine most of us would stop and listen to you tell us all about how the "wonders of masonry" is just about a bunch of guys from different walks of life who come together and sing songs and drink tea.
 
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