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What is a free mason?? /need advice?

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ej

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billmcelligott said:
Well Thadeus you have gone back to the original accusation that the refutes I posted were against.

For an anti Mason it is very convenient to say just that . Then he leads on to Masons worship the Devil.

I have given you a plausible explanation of the manufactured word. It is found no where but in Masonry. So it poses the question why?

If Masons wanted to worship the devil / Satan then why make up a name, just call him Lucifer.

If you're going to postulate that Masonry is anti-Satanic because their Deity has a made up name rather than the more obvious 'Satan'...

Then I have an honest question or two:

Why make up a name, why not just call him God?

And why are 1st degree Masons told his name is GAOTU, 2nd degree told JHVH, 3rd degree informed that his name is actually still a mystery, and then 7th (Royal Arch) degree eventually told that his name is Jaobulon?

Why the secrecy of his identity even from Masons themselves until 7th degree?
 
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billmcelligott

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emmajane can I refer you back to the answers to Thadeus,

Thadeus, to a point yes I am but only because I have no knowledge of the actual US ritual, and they will vary. It would be very unfair of me to Speculate. But I do have on going dialogue with US and Canadian Masons. So I can find out.

I just tell it like it is. All I want is for people to take a good look, not just pick up the off the cuff remarks and some of the anti web sites. We are happy to be examined in detail, well I am anyway. Some of my Brothers think I am Crackers, but they have no intention of trying to stop me.
 
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KennySe

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Hello.

I have bolded some of the below for emphasis.

billmcelligott said:
Well Thadeus you have gone back to the original accusation that the refutes I posted were against.

For an anti Mason it is very convenient to say just that . Then he leads on to Masons worship the Devil.

I have given you a plausible explanation of the manufactured word. It is found no where but in Masonry. So it poses the question why?

If Masons wanted to worship the devil / Satan then why make up a name, just call him Lucifer.

Oh, I see. You gave "a plausible explanation of the manufactured word."

Indeed, your response to me when I asked about the word Jah-Bul-On, was:

After 30 to 40 posts on the subject between two of my friends one a Doctor and the other a UMC Minister we arrived at this.

(1) “Jah” = a shortened form of “Yahweh” or “Jehovah.”
(2) “Bul” = another form of “ba’al,” translated as “husband” throughout most of the Old Testament, but also translated as “master” in Exodus 22:8, and Judges 19:22-23.
(3) “On” = the same name God gave Moses when questioned, “whom shall I say has sent me?” The fact that this is a name for God is clear from the passage in Hosea 12:4, translating “house of On” from the Septuagint Greek version, which corresponds to the Hebrew “Bethel,” which means “House of God.”

Now the ant Masonic lobby tires to make it into a name of a new God, it is not. In UGLE [United Grand Lodge of England] the word is the Hebrew / English name for God as in the Bible.

Then, what was the original meaning of this manufactured word?
You have given us what UGLE and your American friends say it means NOW.

Indeed, continuing with your post to Thaddeus, you said:

Jahbulon was originally used as the name of The diety to enable each mans faith not to be confused with anothers. In other words a name that could be used to encompass all.

In the UGLE ritual after consultation with the Anglican Church the word was altered to the Biblical Name of God. In some ritual books it remains.

So, what was the original origin of the manufactured word? Where did it originally come from, before its alteration?

**

As for the "Biblical Name of God", you and UGLE are incorrect in saying "Jebulon" is the "Biblical Name of God".
His Name is translated from Hebrew into modern English as "Elohim". Also, His Name is the four letter Tetragram.
(When the Rabbis were reading scriptures, they would not say His Name, but would say instead "Adonai", which means "The Lord".
Christians integrated the consonants of the Tetragram with the vowels of "Adonai" in an attempt to pronounce His Name.)
 
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KennySe

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“Bul” = another form of “ba’al,” translated as “husband” throughout most of the Old Testament, but also translated as “master” in Exodus 22:8, and Judges 19:22-23.

Hosea 2:16 (KJV)
And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.

"baali" is translated as "husband", "master" in the sense of that time where the man was the head of the household and the wife was to wait on him hand in foot. Today, we'd say the husband is the "king of the castle", "lord of his domain".

But the Lord God commanded that he be called another word for "husband" which is "Ishi". This "individual husband" would take special care of his wife; rather than the "husband baal" being her superior master for her to wait on him.

The Lord God wanted a closer more intimate relationship with His people.

And He did not want "baal" to be confused with the name "Ba'al".

Hosea 2:16 (NLT)
In that coming day," says the LORD, "you will call me `my husband' instead of `my master.'
 
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Rev Wayne

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Hi everyone,

I am a Christian pastor who for many years never had any real knowledge of the Masons. They came to my attention from a series of small incidents, such as meeting a co-worker who was a Mason, meeting another seminary in my dorm whose father was a Mason, having a friend tell me he was about to join, etc. For a time there was a passing curiosity, but no more. I had heard rumors they were a cult, or were satanic, or such, but never anything in any detail. Then just a few years ago, I came across an old pastors' manual of my church, listing all the pastors in my state, with pictures, educational background, civic involvement, etc. I saw a picture of my former pastor from my teen years, and there listed in those credits I found a surprise: he had been a Mason. Since I had heard the evil rumors, that caught my eye, because that man had done more for the youth of our church than any man before or since. Later I found out that the president of the camp meeting we used to attend had also been a Mason. This man I had considered an even stronger influence in my life and the lives of an incredible number of young people at that camp. Then the real surprise came when a man I knew from my home church died. When I read the obituary, there in the list of things he had done in his life, was the unmistakable word again: Mason. That did it for me, and began a genuine period of soul-searching and information-seeking to find out more about this organization and what it was about. In my mind, it was impossible to reconcile what I had always been told about the lodge with the undeniable Christian witness of these men. You see, the last man I mentioned was so deeply and undeniably, committedly Christian that something was wrong one way or the other. He taught a Bible class in my church that now bears his name, and was such a wonderful teacher that we had trouble in our church maintaining a youth Sunday School class, because all the young people wanted to attend his class. There was a reason for that as well. He was also the principal of our local high school, and had a wonderful warm and loving relationship with all the students. Back when Madeleine Murray O'Hair started her thing against prayer in schools, he took a stand few people dared to take. At the time that news of the ban on prayer in public schools was announced, this man was in the habit of conducting a daily devotion over the school intercom after the morning announcements. He would follow a Bible reading and comments with a brief prayer. When word of the ban came out, a petition was circulated among the student body in support of him continuing to deliver the devotional each morning. The vote was unanimous, with every student signing in a student body of about 900, asking that he continue. And in response to the petition, and in defiance of the ban, he continued to have the public devotional each morning. But that's not all. This dear devoted man, after the grade reports went out every six weeks, could be seen walking the halls during our mid-day homeroom period, carrying a couple of black two-ring binders with student records, making his way to the various classed. When he got to the class he was headed to, he would pull a desk aside into a corner, then another desk beside it, and one-by-one he would beckon with a finger for each student to come over and sit by him. He would go over the grade report, giving praise for good grades, and encouragement in areas where the student was struggling or grades were slipping. I don't know a single student who does not remember that practice as being one of the greatest influences on their life during their school experience.

You can see why that put my mind into a spin. To deny the Christian fruits and character of this man was, to me, like throwing rocks at Mother Teresa. I was one of those who had accepted the idea of Freemasonry as some kind of evil group that must be confronted and denied a foothold lest it infect the body of Christ. I have done a complete reversal, mainly because after doing some honest searching, I had to admit that the people who had had the most extraordinary, profound Christian witness and influence in my life, had all been Freemasons.

Since that turnaround, I have been in dialogue with both Masons and anti-Masons, sorting out issues and trying to understand all I can. I notice there has been some discussion about the Jahbulon name. I can tell you that, judging from the ritual itself, I can see nothing in the Royal Arch Degree to suggest anything demonic or satanic, or anything evil in the "name." The ritual does not set this misnomer forth as any kind of substitute "name for God." If it says anything, it says that the "name for deity" is Jehovah. The ritual addresses more than just the name, there are three Hebrew letters arranged on the sides of the triangle, alpha, beth, and lamed, which are transposed and re-ordered to come up with three words, meaning basically "Father, Word, and Spirit." Or, as the ritual has them, "Father-Lord, Word-Lord, and Spirit-Lord." I find it a very striking parallel that these three, put together in just this way, match the same formulation of the trinity as it was first found in the Christian church. The earliest mention we find of Trinity come at about 180 A.D. in the writings of Tertullian. In his discussion of the term, he describes it just this way, as "Father-Word-Spirit," or more often, "Father-Word-Wisdom."

(I will have more to say to expand further on the name in a future post)

Following that discussion, the ritual says, "The triangle, when placed within a circle, symbolizes the vivifying principle extending throughout all created matter: it is therefore called the symbol of Perfection. The circle, having neither beginning nor ending, typifies the omnipotent Author of the universe; it also reminds us of that grand and awful futurity wherein we hope to enjoy endless bliss and everlasting life. The W. ............ (name letters), which you behold on the circle is the grand and incomprehensible N. of the Most High, the first and the last, the beginning and the ending, which was, and is, and is to come; the Almighty. It shows Him to be the actual, future, and all-sufficient God who alone has His being in and of Himself, and gives to all others their being, so that He was what He is, He is what He was, and shall be, both what He was and what He is, from everlasting to everlasting,--all creation being dependent on His mighty will."

At this point in the ritual, all present stand and sing two stanzas of a great Trinitarian hymn, "Holy, Holy, Holy."

I should think someone would be hard-put to find evil in this. I know it is not the sum total of masonic ritual, but a masonic understanding of the ritual is that it is highly symbolic anyway.

I happen to be of the opinion that the lodge is not anywhere near what many of its detractors portray it to be, in an effort to sway people to join their mindset and buy their books. I know that is just one man's opinion in the long run. But it is an opinion based on the evidence of fruitful, godly lives, and what I have managed to gather in the way of ritual evidence.

Wayne
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SonWorshipper

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there are three Hebrew letters arranged on the sides of the triangle, alpha, beth, and lamed, which are transposed and re-ordered to come up with three words,
The Hebrew alphabet does not have a letter called Alpha, that is a Greek letter, I believe you meant alef and Bet.

 
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billmcelligott

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KennySe said:
Then, what was the original meaning of this manufactured word?

This can only be a guess, the ritual of Masonry was originally not written down. It was only performed and remembered. At the formation of the UGLE the ritual was recorded. It was an amalgamation of several differing performances. No one actually recorded the meaning of the word. It can be guessed taht it was an attempt to include all the religions of the day. That may not be appropriate now. The word has been changed in many of the rituals.

The only people that seem interested now are the Anti Masonic section. I did a serch on the word and the first five pages were all Anti Masonic sites. They grab on to a point , like a dog with a bone, and will not let go.

The real question is does it matter? Whatever the meaning was , what is important is what is the meaning to the person listening to the lecture, or the word. In the cremony it is clearly referenced to The God of the Bible. In the Aldersgate Ritual the name is the God of the Bile. Not Jahbulon.

I have only attended UK meetings and I tell you all the members are aware that the Story of Soloman , David and God, does not suddenly transform to Solomon David and Satan.

You have given us what UGLE and your American friends say it means NOW.

Like most literature what I think and what you think may well be different. But I am not accusing you. I do no wrong. If you say I do then you prove it. It is all speculation. Can I remind all that I do not speak on behalf of all Masons these are just my humble opinions.

Indeed, continuing with your post to Thaddeus, you said:


As for the "Biblical Name of God", you and UGLE are incorrect in saying "Jebulon" is the "Biblical Name of God".
I do not remember saying that, If I did I am wrong.

FOUND IT SORRY REASON FOR EDIT :
In UGLE [United Grand Lodge of England] the word IS the Hebrew / English name for God as in the Bible.
In other words it is the same as in the bible, Jahbulon is not the word.

His Name is translated from Hebrew into modern English as "Elohim". Also, His Name is the four letter Tetragram.
(When the Rabbis were reading scriptures, they would not say His Name, but would say instead "Adonai", which means "The Lord".
Christians integrated the consonants of the Tetragram with the vowels of "Adonai" in an attempt to pronounce His Name.)

I am afraid I have taken an oath not to repeat the name , as did the ancient hebrews. It was not lawful to actually prononce the name of the True and Living God.[/QUOTE]
 
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billmcelligott

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Wil try to complete the answer maybe I was on another thread.

emmajane said:
If you're going to postulate that Masonry is anti-Satanic because their Deity has a made up name rather than the more obvious 'Satan'...

Then I have an honest question or two:

Why make up a name, why not just call him God?

Personally I think you are right, but they wanted to move away from their close ties with the Established Church in 1717. This was more politacal then anything. At the re write of the ritual they moved towards this distancing from the Church and admitted non Christians. Hence the need for an all encompacing name. Not a replacement God. A name that each man could not object to.

And why are 1st degree Masons told his name is GAOTU, 2nd degree told JHVH, 3rd degree informed that his name is actually still a mystery, and then 7th (Royal Arch) degree eventually told that his name is Jaobulon?

It does not proceed quite like that in my Lodge /Chapter. Although there are differences from Country to Country. There are only three universally accepted degrees in Masonry, the Royal Arch being the completion of the Third. All other degrees are termed as side degrees, including 33rd. It will take too long to go through it all.

Lets take the first, the Great Architect, now if you were writing a book explaining the supreme Diety to a bunch of Builders it would seem reasonable to use a term that they could identify with. It is not a replacement name the term God is used referring to the God of Abraham and Isaac, using the Bible as the enuring line for a Mason to follow.

Why the secrecy of his identity even from Masons themselves until 7th degree?

Masonry is a story enacted in front of the members of the lodge, how many times has someone told you the end before you have finished the book. Well sorry to burst the conspiracy bubble but its that simple. Its a story with a beginning a middle and an End.
Is that complete enough , I always worry in case I go on too long and get boring.
 
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Plan 9

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billmcelligott said:
This can only be a guess, the ritual of Masonry was originally not written down. It was only performed and remembered. At the formation of the UGLE the ritual was recorded. It was an amalgamation of several differing performances. No one actually recorded the meaning of the word. It can be guessed taht it was an attempt to include all the religions of the day. That may not be appropriate now. The word has been changed in many of the rituals.


Robinson's opinion is that the orginal term itself may be lost, for this very reason and says that every attempt at explaining it is now, of necessity, conjecture. He does quite well in his book with many the derivations of the other very old Masonic terms, too.


bill said:
The only people that seem interested now are the Anti Masonic section. I did a serch on the word and the first five pages were all Anti Masonic sites. They grab on to a point , like a dog with a bone, and will not let go.

I'm interested in what you have to say, Bill. :)


KennySe said:
As for the "Biblical Name of God", you and UGLE are incorrect in saying "Jebulon" is the "Biblical Name of God".
I do not remember saying that, If I did I am wrong.

FOUND IT SORRY REASON FOR EDIT :
In UGLE [United Grand Lodge of England] the word IS the Hebrew / English name for God as in the Bible.
In other words it is the same as in the bible, Jahbulon is not the word.

His Name is translated from Hebrew into modern English as "Elohim". Also, His Name is the four letter Tetragram.
(When the Rabbis were reading scriptures, they would not say His Name, but would say instead "Adonai", which means "The Lord".
Christians integrated the consonants of the Tetragram with the vowels of "Adonai" in an attempt to pronounce His Name.)
the Tetragammaton is YHVH and is normally rendered in Bible dictionaries as either "Jehovah" or "Yahweh". I call Him "Father", myself.
I'm a little perplexed as to why this point seems to matter so much. Will someone fill me in?
 
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Thaddeus

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I don't believe that I'm anti mason. I'm trying to figure out why ex masons speak as they do and current Masons speak so innocently.

I've used your words to create a situation that might explain this confusion. I'm not saying it's a fact but rather a possible source.

I would like more information to examine.
 
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Plan 9

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Thaddeus said:
I don't believe that I'm anti mason. I'm trying to figure out why ex masons speak as they do and current Masons speak so innocently.

I've used your words to create a situation that might explain this confusion. I'm not saying it's a fact but rather a possible source.

I would like more information to examine.
I can see that from your posts, Thaddeus, but I was wondering why the resolution of this particular point is important to you.

FYI: here are some sites with biographies of Dr. Rob Morris, the founder of OES and overviews of OES history, a list of OES charities, etc. Dr. Morris was a Master Builder and the author of the hymn O, Galilee.

http://oes.itgo.com/robmorris.html
http://www.masonicsites.org/oes54/morris1.htm
http://www.orgsites.com/fl/vero-oes/
http://www.easternstar.org/oes/oeshistory.html
 
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Rev Wayne

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Thanks, SonWorshipper,

I really do so often need a bit of help these days with the old noggin. Usually it's the memory, but in this case I distinctly recall having "aleph" in the brain, it just lost something in the translation--from brain to paper. Life begins at 50, I've heard, but nobody bothered to tell me what it begins.
blush.gif


Wayne
 
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KennySe

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Hey, Bill. Thanks for your continued correspondence with me on this issue.
FYI, I'm not accusing you of anything and i do realize you are offering your opinion and not that of the Grand Poobah. :cool:

I'll intereject using bold printin the below.

Then, what was the original meaning of this manufactured word?

This can only be a guess, the ritual of Masonry was originally not written down. It was only performed and remembered. At the formation of the UGLE the ritual was recorded. It was an amalgamation of several differing performances. No one actually recorded the meaning of the word. It can be guessed taht it was an attempt to include all the religions of the day. That may not be appropriate now. The word has been changed in many of the rituals.

The only people that seem interested now are the Anti Masonic section. I did a serch on the word and the first five pages were all Anti Masonic sites. They grab on to a point , like a dog with a bone, and will not let go.

Then your answer to "What is the original meaning of the manufactured word "Jahbulon" is "We're not really sure."
I suspect that you are right that "it was an attempt to include all the religions of the day." And moreso, I agree with you that IF [big word "if"] that is the case, then it may not be appropriate now.

And if anyone says that "JahBulOn meant Jah for the Roman Jove, Baul for the Canaanite god Baal, On for the Hindu On and/or the Egyptian Osirus, then you must answer honestly and say, "I don't know."


The real question is does it matter? Whatever the meaning was , what is important is what is the meaning to the person listening to the lecture, or the word. In the cremony it is clearly referenced to The God of the Bible. In the Aldersgate Ritual the name is the God of the Bile. Not Jahbulon.

Here I disagree with you. In my opinion, it *does* matter what the original meaning was.
Substitute "Jahbulon" with "the big F". Now what does "the big F" mean?
Well, you say it doesn't really matter if the person listening had a different understanding of it. Yet, "the big F" HAS a real meaning. The listener may be told it means something nice, but tell that to my Grandma. ;)

I have only attended UK meetings and I tell you all the members are aware that the Story of Soloman , David and God, does not suddenly transform to Solomon David and Satan.

I do not doubt you.

You have given us what UGLE and your American friends say it means NOW.

Like most literature what I think and what you think may well be different. But I am not accusing you. I do no wrong. If you say I do then you prove it. It is all speculation. Can I remind all that I do not speak on behalf of all Masons these are just my humble opinions.

Like I said at the top of this new post, I'm not accusing you of anything. And I realize that you do not speak on behalf of all Masons.

Can you understand the anti-mason's frustration in pointing out the words of Albert Pike and his "Luciferian" remarks in his book, and then no Mason takes ownership of Pike and his remark? I think it would do the image of Masonry a great service if some would denounce Pike outright, saying "Pike doesn't speak for me and my group.", for example.

And as you admit that YOU do not speak for all Masons, then you cannot say that all Lodges are Lucifer-free, either. You honestly do not know that all Lodges have replaced "JahBulon" with the name of the Biblical God. You do not know if all lodges have "reinvented" the word JahBulOn.

That You and YOUR lodge do not worship Lucifer, I believe you.

But who knows which lodges *may* follow Pike's "Dogmas and Morals" verbatim?

Who knows which lodges *may* consider "Jah-Bul-On to be the Syriac name for God, the Canaanite god Baal and the Egyptian God Osirus?

We can't know.

It's all a secret.

*****

The U.N. does a lot of its printing by the LUCIS Trust. Do you know that "Lucis" was changed from "Lucifer"?
Should it matter that the Lucis Trust was originally a Theosophical organization which worships Lucifer? Should it matter if a Lucis Trust person doesn't know the real origin of the organization? Should the member be held accountable for being a member of the Lucis Trust? Should the person do his/her research to discover the TRUTH of the Lucis Trust?
 
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Plan 9

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KennySe said:
Hey, Bill. Thanks for your continued correspondence with me on this issue.
FYI, I'm not accusing you of anything and i do realize you are offering your opinion and not that of the Grand Poobah. :cool:

I'll intereject using bold printin the below.



Then your answer to "What is the original meaning of the manufactured word "Jahbulon" is "We're not really sure."
I suspect that you are right that "it was an attempt to include all the religions of the day." And moreso, I agree with you that IF [big word "if"] that is the case, then it may not be appropriate now.

And if anyone says that "JahBulOn meant Jah for the Roman Jove, Baul for the Canaanite god Baal, On for the Hindu On and/or the Egyptian Osirus, then you must answer honestly and say, "I don't know."




Here I disagree with you. In my opinion, it *does* matter what the original meaning was.
Substitute "Jahbulon" with "the big F". Now what does "the big F" mean?
Well, you say it doesn't really matter if the person listening had a different understanding of it. Yet, "the big F" HAS a real meaning. The listener may be told it means something nice, but tell that to my Grandma. ;)
Kenny, the people who live in the State of Indiana no longer know what the term "Hoosier" means or where it came from. If that term had a satanic origin. would that make the entire entire population of Indiana Satanists?

We no longer know why women shave their legs...does that automatically make the practice a sinister one?

We no longer know why general purpose vehicles are called Jeeps; we have only theories. Should we, for that reason, avoid riding in them?

English dictionaries are updated approximately every fifteen years because it only takes fifteen years for some words to change their meaning and for some slang terms to formally enter our language. What matters most is what English words mean now.



The U.N. does a lot of its printing by the LUCIS Trust. Do you know that "Lucis" was changed from "Lucifer"?
Should it matter that the Lucis Trust was originally a Theosophical organization which worships Lucifer? Should it matter if a Lucis Trust person doesn't know the real origin of the organization? Should the member be held accountable for being a member of the Lucis Trust? Should the person do his/her research to discover the TRUTH of the Lucis Trust?
Kenny, could you cite your source for this? First of all, Theosophists were not Satanists and secondly, this sounds a great deal like that Procter & Gamble urban folktale.
 
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Thaddeus

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Thanks Plan 9 I'm going to read up on those links.

I think it's important for me resolve so that I don't spread rumors and say things about masons that may or may not be true.

If someone asks me about becoming a mason, like the original poster asked in general, I would like to provide factual information.
 
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Plan 9

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Thaddeus said:
Thanks Plan 9 I'm going to read up on those links.

I think it's important for me resolve so that I don't spread rumors and say things about masons that may or may not be true.

If someone asks me about becoming a mason, like the original poster asked in general, I would like to provide factual information.
You're very welcome and I hope you enjoy them. Most of them are sites put together by local OES chapters and may give you a feel for the members. That's my hope anyway. You can also see for yourself what our Eastern Star symbol really looks like. :)
 
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geocajun

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I am an ex freemason (32nd degree AASR member as well). I can tell you from my own searching, that freemasonry is not compatible with Christianity - but it is compatible with deism. so those of you out there who think God has not revealed himself to us will feel at home there.

please read the following articles which outline various Christian churches positions on masonic associations:

1983 Vatican Declaration on Masonic Associations


Official Statement of the Orthodox Church on Freemasonry: Christians must disavow Masonry

Why the Church and the Lodge Disagree - A Lutheran Perspective

Baptists and Freemasonry (Britain and Ireland)

The Southern Baptist Convention and Freemasonry

A Closer Look At Freemasonry: The 1993 Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) Report on the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity and Southern Baptist Doctrine in pdf [font=Arial,Helvetica][font=Arial,Helvetica]Freemasonry and the Christian Church [/font][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][font=Arial,Helvetica]Action of State and Church Authorities Against Freemasonry
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The above links are provided by Freemasonry Watch
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