There was no “Christian” baptism prior to the thief dying, Christian Baptism and the indwelling portion of the Holy Spirit comes with Pentecost.
Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about what he must do right than and that would be what Nicodemus already knew he should do, that is where you start with any person.
Why aren't you replhying to my points? Is it too difficult for you?
You are saying water is flesh? How does that make any sense. Sorry, I don't accept that, not by a long shot.
Those who would be baptized but die before they have the opportunity are covered. We call this the "baptism of desire."
These points:What points. I don't do internet on Shabbat.
It says you must be born of water (baptism) and spirit (repentance).
So unless you can provide another verse that says something different about how to be born again, you'll have to be satisfied with that.
Yeshua never says that the "water" in John 3 is "flesh."I am not saying it...Yeshua is. So you believe in predestination and not free will? Again, read the ENTIRE passage.
Yeshua never says that the "water" in John 3 is "flesh."
I believe in the sort of predestination that is foreknowledge. Foreknowledge doesn't nix free will.
Flesh is born when labor pains squish it out.Again, read the ENTIRE passage! How is FLESH born? How is SPIRIT born? How many births and deaths can we have? When you know and understand this, you will understand the truth of what being "born again" is...
Flesh is born when labor pains squish it out.
Spirit is created rather than born, and is created by God. However, we speak figuratively about spiritual birth when we speak of people who are transformed. This happens when we confess, repent, and turn our lives over to God.
What does the birth of flesh have to do with the price of tea in china? We're talking about being born of water, which is baptism, and spirit (discussed above).
Please stop yelling at me to read the entire passage. I have read the entire passage many, many more times than the years you have been on this planet. If you are trying to make a point that I'm not seeing, then obviously it isn't in the passage and you'll have to articulate it.READ THE ENTIRE PASSAGE! The birth of flesh has nothing to do with any tea in China...but it does have to do with being born of water...
Remember, what the question was and that Yeshua's Kingdom is NOT of this world. Last time I am asking you...how many births and how many deaths can we have?
Please stop yelling at me to read the entire passage. I have read the entire passage many, many more times than the years you have been on this planet. If you are trying to make a point that I'm not seeing, then obviously it isn't in the passage and you'll have to articulate it.
So tell me what being born of the flesh has to do with water? Besides eating ice chips and cleaning up the blood afterwards? AGain, physical birth has to do with contractions pushing the baby out. Isn't that like, so obvious that we shouldn't even have to be discussing this?
Some people have only a physical birth.
Some people add to this a spiritual rebirth.
Some people, because they have serious backslides, go through more than one radical spiritual rebirth. I don't know if you've ever met such a person, but I have.
We will be resurrected and given glorified bodies when the world is recreated. That is also a kind of rebirth.
That's the best answer I can offer you. I don't think there is one "right" answer to the question. But given that you are a fundamentalist, and fundamentalists have a right answer for everything, I'm sure you have one.
You mean all those people John baptized, including Yeshua Himself, were not "Christian" and invalid? Uh..ok...YOU need to read the ENTIRE verse also!
so explain what your trying to say .. just explain it .its all a bit ambiguous at present . born OF ... flesh is flesh born OF spirit is spirit Born of water is ..?Again, read the ENTIRE passage! How is FLESH born? How is SPIRIT born? How many births and deaths can we have? When you know and understand this, you will understand the truth of what being "born again" is...
oh ..here was an attempt to explain . But it left more questions then anything ..I am a fundamentalist? What does THAT mean? There is one physical birth (flesh is born FROM flesh) and one spiritual birth (spirit is born of spirit). There is one physical death and CAN be one spiritual death (the 2nd death). Do you understand now? If not, then you have ears and will not hear...eyes to see but can not see. Read what Yeshua says about those born again...do YOU or anyone born of water (presently in the flesh) fit His description of those born again? Again, what did Nakdimon ask Yeshua? Remember, Yeshua said His Kingdom was NOT of this world...
John baptised for repentance of sin. No one would be born again until after Jesus death on the cross for sin. Sin had to be conquered.You mean all those people John baptized, including Yeshua Himself, were not "Christian" and invalid? Uh..ok...YOU need to read the ENTIRE verse also!
Again everyone, read the ENTIRE passage. Those of you that say you are born again, do you fit the description Yeshua gave of those that are born again? If you say you do, then please explain how you fit it...
Jesus at that time was in the “Kingdom”, so in a sense Nicodemus was coming to the edge of the Kingdom physically, but far from it spiritually, since he was not doing what he knew to do.
Jesus goes on to say: 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
This being “born again” is an earthly thing, so what earthly thing at the time would fit being born again, which Jesus felt (knew) Nicodemus would fully understand and know about?
Acts 19: 1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
There was a huge number of Jews baptized by John’s baptism (it talks about “all” [the masses, but not the Pharisees or gentiles]), so it could have been 100,000 or even a million Jews by the time of Pentecost, but the Bible talks about the church Acts 2: 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 4:4 But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.
That means the number started out much lower than 5000 men, so how could that mean all those that were baptized with John’s baptism were only a few thousand?
There was nothing “invalid” about John’s baptism and that was what was all that was available prior to Pentecost.
He was explaining that he had spoken of earthly things before and they did not believe so now he speaks of heavenly things
and if they did not believe on the other things he said that they saw and knew about but still did not believe, how would they believe THIS!
Yeshua said that His Kingdom was NOT of this world. NO ONE can see the Kingdom unless he is born again! John 3:3. Nakdimon says, How can this be? Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.
I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. Then he turns and tells if they believe on Him they can have eternal life.
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