What if you’re wrong about hell?

[Charlie24]

So what if it has been called "heresy" in the past. They called Christ a blasphemer. Does men calling something bad, make it so? You seem to have this "safety in numbers" mentality, where if the majority of people believe something, it must be true. Well, I've got some bad news for you!

Every doctrine whether true or false is based on reasonable evidence from scripture interpreting scripture. The false doctrine is simply a misinterpretation of scripture. Whoever it may be that has mad this error.

Ur can only be true if man has a second chance (after death) to repent. Where is your doctrinal evidence of scripture interpreting scripture found?

 

[FineLinen]

I know what death means---cessation of life. I never said death means eternally tormented---don't believe in that. God told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree, they would die. He never said that they would burn in hell forever. God does not lie nor tell 1/2 truth. And when He said the wages of sin is death, that is exactly what He meant and that is why He died for us. He paid the price for all, now it just needs to be accepted. He does not force anyone to serve Him! You either choose Him and have His blood cover your sins, or His fire will destroy you for you will have no protection from it.

One really, really simple question for you>>>

When did you choose to me in Adam?

 

[FineLinen]

Ur can only be true if man has a second chance (after death) to repent.

When did chance enter into Father's Plan in Himself?

Search chance

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sunkuria = literally a coincidence of circumstances/ a happening.

However

Concurrence of events is what the word signifies, rather than chance.

 

[Charlie24]

When did chance enter into Father's Plan in Himself?

Search chance

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I see that the UR holds the Calvinist view.

Whether man is elected or chooses God by free will, he cannot enter the presence of God without accepting the Sacrifice of God in Christ Jesus.

If he dies lost in unbelief, the only way he can enter that presence of God is to have a second chance (after death) to accept that Sacrifice.

How do you explain this from scripture interpreting scripture?

 

[martymonster]

Every doctrine whether true or false is based on reasonable evidence from scripture interpreting scripture. The false doctrine is simply a misinterpretation of scripture. Whoever it may be that has mad this error.

Ur can only be true if man has a second chance (after death) to repent. Where is your doctrinal evidence of scripture interpreting scripture found?

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Now, if read a verse, and I take it at face value, instead of letting scripture interpret scripture, how is am I not just guessing what is being said?

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Now, how do I compare something, if I'm just taking the text at face value? Makes no sense!

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Dividing something implies taking it apart to properly understand it, but why would you need to do that, if you can just read it, and it means what it says?

I assume you don't worship an four footed barn animal. I'm sure you don't believe a farm animal died for your sins. How do you know this? Because you compared scripture with scripture. You read in other verses that Christ is the Lamb. You didn't just read Lamb as a literal lamb, every time your saw the word lamb. That would be foolish! Likewise, comparing scripture with scripture, is just common sense.

....or at least it should be.

 

[FineLinen]

If he dies lost in unbelief, the only way he can enter that presence of God is to have a second chance (after death) to accept that Sacrifice.

To repeat: there is no such animal as chance in Abba's Realm. He is the Beginning & the Ending, the Author & Finisher.

What Father begins He finishes!

 

[Charlie24]

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Now, if read a verse, and I take it at face value, instead of letting scripture interpret scripture, how is am I not just guessing what is being said?

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Now, how do I compare something, if I'm just taking the text at face value? Makes no sense!

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Dividing something implies taking it apart to properly understand it, but why would you need to do that, if you can just read it, and it means what it says?

I assume you don't worship an four footed barn animal. I'm sure you don't believe a farm animal died for your sins. How do you know this? Because you compared scripture with scripture. You read in other verses that Christ is the Lamb. You didn't just read Lamb as a literal lamb, every time your saw the word lamb. That would be foolish! Likewise, comparing scripture with scripture, is just common sense.

....or at least it should be.

I wish interpreting scripture was that simple among us.

In reality it's not! Some say water baptism is necessary and have scripture for it, some say it's not necessary and also have scripture for it.

Almost every doctrine known to man has an opposite, a different interpretation.

This is the world we live in, and the battle goes on, knowing that every doctrine has a truth and someone is right and someone is wrong!

 

[mmksparbud]

Except for one thing.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Exactly. It is buried in the ashes of the wicked. And don't give me that baloney about it is not destroyed. Yes, it is. It is done away with. No one will ever die again, that is what it means. You guys keep saying that destroying death doesn't destroy it which is about the dumbest thing I ever heard. IT MEANS NOTHING DIES AGAIN, NO ANIMALS, NO HUMANS.

 

[Ronald]

From a CWR (Christianity Without Religion) article by Brad Jersak titled:
What if you’re wrong about hell?
(Source link: Q&R with Brad Jersak: What if you're wrong about hell?)
Note this is more to read at the link than what I have posted in the OP here.

Comments and discussion welcome.

Q&R with Brad Jersak: What if you’re wrong about hell?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question:
Recently, in response to my rejection of the hell of eternal torment, one of my readers offered a fairly common objection: “I hope you’re right about that. BUT if you’re wrong about hell, then a lot of people will go there … and it will be your fault. Wouldn’t it be better to play it safe just to be sure?”

The following response was adapted from a much longer essay from Clarion Journal, titled, “Let’s Talk about Hell BETTER or “If You’re Wrong, a Lot of People Will Go to Hell & It’s Your Fault” by Brad Jersak.

Response: The Wager
This high stakes objection is worthy of a careful response.

1. “Wrong about hell” in what way? The implication seems to imply that I don’t believe there’s a hell or that the hell I believe in is not something to worry about. Not so! Of course I believe in hell. I’ve been there. I’ve seen it with my eyes, in my spirit and in my Bible. And now I preach the good news, knowing that Christ conquered hades (Rev. 1:18) to rescue us and he came back victorious with a host of captives (Mark 3:27, Eph. 4:8). I see no reason to believe that my conviction that hell is horrendous but not eternal would endanger a single soul of going there.
2. Are we saved by belief in Christ or by belief in hell? I assume that objectors believe that the material cause of our salvation is Jesus Christ and the efficient cause is faith in his name. Nowhere do the Scriptures demand belief in a particular doctrine of hell as a requirement for saving faith. No doctrine of hell entered New Testament evangelism or our confession of faith at baptism. One can check every evangelistic sermon in Acts to verify this.
3. The ‘Safe’ Wager: The charge seems to be rooted in a fear-based wager that ultimately bites itself in the behind. The wager goes like this: IF eternal conscious torment is even a possibility, then we’d better warn people about it or they will end up there. Makes sense, right? Well… that might have worked in Jonathan Edwards time. I say might because can we be so sure that those who repent out of fear of being roasted alive forever actually responded in willing faith to Jesus Christ? Did they love him because they’d God’s love in the revelation of the Cross? Or did Edwards merely convince them to convert with the eternal conscious gun to their heads? Is that saving faith?

But for the sake of our wager, let’s say it was. Let’s say that gospel did work. And let’s say Edwards was completely right: that hell is eternal conscious torment and salvation is Jesus’ way out of the white-hot wrath of God. Let’s say eternal conscious torment is the clear and present danger. If so, then we need to determine which gospel will BEST save people from that fate.

Here’s the troubling news: preaching eternal hellfire no longer scares people into Jesus arms. Statistically, it creates atheists by the millions. If you’re truly worried about people going to hell, then you had better NOT mention it, because such preaching is among the top stated reasons why people now reject Christ.

This is a fact in the 21st century: people today reject the good news of Jesus Christ when we import hellfire preaching into our gospel. They do this because:

• It sounds more like medieval mythology than gospel truth. It doesn’t resonate at all.
• It looks more like a B-grade horror movie than something anchored to reality.
• It sabotages the evangelist’s credibility because it doesn’t sound like the foolishness of the gospel (Christ and him crucified). It sounds more like the silliness of radical fundamentalism.
• It enables the listener to defer judgment to an imagined “later” rather than facing all the ways they are already perishing and in bondage to the kingdom of hell today.

So, if you are truly afraid that people will go to hell, DO NOT tell them about it. But my suspicion is that the greater fear is that we ourselves might go to hell if we don’t get it right, even if we cause others to reject Christ through our hellacious threats.

I would have to agree, that Hell should not be the primary substance of evangelism. My Pastor always said, begin and end your preaching/evangelism with GRACE. The subject of Hell is certainly not something to start with. But we are saved from are sins, from spiritual death ... which is ______.
We are saved from what exactly? You can't really leave it out. We are saved from destruction, separation from God, a final judgment. "Oh really", they may ask. "What will that judgment be like?
Well, you get resurrected and thrown in a fire and die physically and spiritually - destruction.
Hell is the Lake of Fire. It really can't be left out of the story, Jesus mentioned numerous times. It is a dark message and should be lit up with a solution - The LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
THE Gospel can be understood in one sentence: Jesus died on a cross for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures. Now to believe that, you need to read the Word to find out who Jesus is and what He did and in humility, seek God in prayer. Ask for enlightenment, open the door and invite Him in. Faith comes by the Word and do more that God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice. Sin will be either forgiven or judged. Close with, " Please do ask Him for forgiveness and be thankful."

 

[mmksparbud]

One really, really simple question for you>>>

When did you choose to me in Adam?

I have no idea what you are saying---most of what you say never does make any sense.

 

[Saint Steven]

The gospel to tell is for the sinner to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead. By believing that what He did was for sinners to not go to hell. So tell them about hell as what they will miss, not tell them hell is where they will go if they don't accept Jesus.

Which is more important for them to know?.. Redemption through Jesus.. or certain hell for the sinner? If hell seems to be so important, then perhaps the redemption through Jesus is not thought to be so convincing? jmho.

Thanks for your reply post. Two things.
1) Hell for unbelievers is common knowledge. It's more likely that an inquirer will want to know if you believe in a God that would do such a terrible thing.
2) You also have the option to tell them that you don't believe in a forever burning hell. Of course, that assumes that you don't. Would you consider the possibility? The OP article was written by someone (Brad Jersak) that doesn't believe in a forever burning hell. Neither do I.

 

[Charlie24]

To repeat: there is no such animal as chance in Abba's Realm. He is the Beginning & the Ending, the Author & Finisher.

What Father begins He finishes!

Please respond to post #324.

 

[Saint Steven]

I would have to agree, that Hell should not be the primary substance of evangelism. My Pastor always said, begin and end your preaching/evangelism with GRACE. The subject of Hell is certainly not something to start with. But we are saved from are sins, from spiritual death ... which is ______.
We are saved from what exactly? You can't really leave it out. We are saved from destruction, separation from God, a final judgment. "Oh really", they may ask. "What will that judgment be like?
Well, you get resurrected and thrown in a fire and die physically and spiritually - destruction.
Hell is the Lake of Fire. It really can't be left out of the story, Jesus mentioned numerous times. It is a dark message and should be lit up with a solution - The LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
THE Gospel can be understood in one sentence: Jesus died on a cross for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures. Now to believe that, you need to read the Word to find out who Jesus is and what He did and in humility, seek God in prayer. Ask for enlightenment, open the door and invite Him in. Faith comes by the Word and do more that God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice. Sin will be either forgiven or judged. Close with, " Please do ask Him for forgiveness and be thankful."

What if you are wrong about hell?
I have made a wonderful discovery. Life is better without hell. Try it, you'll like it. - lol

 

[martymonster]

Every doctrine whether true or false is based on reasonable evidence from scripture interpreting scripture. The false doctrine is simply a misinterpretation of scripture. Whoever it may be that has mad this error.

Ur can only be true if man has a second chance (after death) to repent. Where is your doctrinal evidence of scripture interpreting scripture found?

In regards to water baptism, there's a very simple to know that it's not a requirement. It's a physical ritual.
Does anyone believe that you need to be physically circumcised? No, it was just a type of the true circumcision, which is circumcision of the heart.

 

[Charlie24]

What if you are wrong about hell?
I have made a wonderful discovery. Life is better without hell. Try it, you'll like it. - lol

There is no "what if" in God's Word. It is either yea or nay.

It may be a good feeling for you, but it's not reality.

You will be held responsible for for your actions on His Word!

 

[Lazarus Short]

So what if it has been called "heresy" in the past. They called Christ a blasphemer. Does men calling something bad, make it so? You seem to have this "safety in numbers" mentality, where if the majority of people believe something, it must be true. Well, I've got some bad news for you!

Actually, you have some GOOD news for him, but he can't accept it yet.

 

[Charlie24]

In regards to water baptism, there's a very simple to know that it's not a requirement. It's a physical ritual.
Does anyone believe that you need to be physically circumcised? No, it was just a type of the true circumcision, which is circumcision of the heart.

We are not as far apart in doctrine as I had thought!

 

[FineLinen]

I have no idea what you are saying---most of what you say never does make any sense.

Perhaps we can start with what I post makes sense. (LOL)

This is the deal. All of us were born into this world as members of Adam. We did not choose to be born, we had zero input into the entrance into sin & death and our genetic structure of depravity, NONE!

"Many made sinners" = "many made righteous."

 

[mmksparbud]

Perhaps we can start with what I post makes sense. (LOL)

This is the deal. All of us were born into this world as members of Adam. We did not choose to be born, we had zero input into the entrance into sin & death and our genetic structure of depravity, NONE!

"Many made sinners" = "many made righteous."

Everybody knows that---what is your point.

 

[Saint Steven]

There is no "what if" in God's Word. It is either yea or nay.

It may be a good feeling for you, but it's not reality.

You will be held responsible for for your actions on His Word!

Just say "nay" to hell, then.

There are actually a number of "what if"s in the Bible. Here's one example below.
Besides, there is biblical evidence for all three doctrines of the final judgment.
You claim to accept the scriptures I present, but reject their plain meaning.
How is that different than what you are accusing me of?

Genesis 18:32
Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”