What if Preachers Never Got Paid?

[razzelflabben]

All true Christians are “gifted” with the indwelling Holy Spirit, so not sure want you mean by “gifted”?

Ephesians 4

God seems to like taking those that appear to be incapable and show His capability to work with the weak.

yep...

I fully agree severe persecution would help Christianity to grow spiritually and in numbers.

I would also contribute the growth of the underground church in China to the fact they really only have the Bible to work with (no commentaries!!!).

not sure it has anything to do with that, but I am NOT a fan of commentaries, so this might be a different discussion best left for a different day.

There is also the unique way they all (100 million of them) seem to teach the same thing. The Communist government publicized a long list of what Christian Churches could not teach including: water emersion believer baptism, communion, the deity of Christ, Christ sacrificial death, heaven, hell, etc. The underground church took this list and used it as the subjects of what they do teach.

persecution...yep, our current denomination comes from similar rules and regulations and the breaking of those rules even at risk of death.

 

[jsimms615]

Do you really thing God condones the culture of mega churches when He is about humility, patience, and long-suffering on earth? Even Job suffered through destitution and extreme family loss for a bet (that of course God would win, and for Job inherit benefit.) A minister is not a worldly job deserving of worldly salary. Bread, or manna?

so, if a minister is not a "worldly job deserving of worldly salary" then it would be okay with you for the minister to get a different job to help support his family and then do the work of the minister in his free time? Why would it be a big deal to ask for money for his support if he is giving you things that are much more valuable such as sharing with you God's Word? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Der Alte]

Do you really thing God condones the culture of mega churches when He is about humility, patience, and long-suffering on earth? Even Job suffered through destitution and extreme family loss for a bet (that of course God would win, and for Job inherit benefit.) A minister is not a worldly job deserving of worldly salary. Bread, or manna?

How big was the temple and how many Jews lived in Israel at the time of Jesus? How many 1000s of Jews from Israel and surrounding countries came to Jerusalem at Passover, Yom Kippur, etc? Did you ever notice that the great majority of those advocating not paying the clergy are not pastors/ministers? It's always easy to tell the other guy what he should or shouldn't do if you are not walking in his shoes. If you think pastors/ministers should not be paid, but work a full time secular job, while they are serving their church fulltime to support their families, then you go be a full time pastor/minister and work 40 hours/week at a secular job, and get back to us in a year or two. Betcha can't do what you demand that someone else do.

 

[megaflies]

And Christ said, Bring me a coin, tell me whos face is on it? They said Cesar, Christ said to give unto him what is his.

 

[razzelflabben]

Did you ever notice that it is only people who are not pastors/ministers who are advocating not paying the clergy?

not true...well sort of, my husband was a pastor, isn't pastoring right now, I am doing the job of pastor just not preaching, and we both will tell you that the person who does it for pay should never be in the position to start with. That being said, the church should pay the man/woman who is tested/proven to be compelled by the HS to pastor, rather than compelled by money. So you would be wrong to claim only those who are not pastors advocate not paying. In fact, one of our constant claims is that you hire the man who is doing the job without pay to begin with. IOW's they are tested and proven by willingly doing the job without pay, that is the person you want to pay.

It's always easy to tell the other guy what he should or shouldn't do if you are not walking in his shoes. If you think pastors/ministers should not be paid, but work a full time secular job, while they are serving their church fulltime to support their families, then you go be a full time pastor/minister and work 40 hours/week at a secular job, and get back to us in a year or two. Betcha can't do what you demand that someone else do.

amen

 

[razzelflabben]

And Christ said, Bring me a coin, tell me whos face is on it? They said Cesar, Christ said to give unto him what is his.

in context, this passage refers to paying taxes, not paying pastors...might want to exercise care in keeping things in context.

 

[megaflies]

in context, this passage refers to paying taxes, not paying pastors...might want to exercise care in keeping things in context.

Money belongs in the hand of whom it serves no matter what the case.

 

[razzelflabben]

Money belongs in the hand of whom it serves no matter what the case.

cool...what do you use to pay your bills? What currency are you serving when you pay for the internet to make your posts? The problem with legalism is that it condemns the one who is using it to judge others....remember that passage? Matthew 7:2 if you need a hint.

 

[megaflies]

I have not worked for over ten years. Everything is taken care for me. It is that I do not larour nor do I toil. I am the servent of my Father and everything is taken care of by Him.

 

[IchoozJC]

I have not worked for over ten years. Everything is taken care for me. It is that I do not larour nor do I toil. I am the servent of my Father and everything is taken care of by Him.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat

Proverbs 21:25 ESV
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor

2 Thessalonians 3:11-12 ESV
For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living

 

[megaflies]

You speak of those things that had not yet been fulfilled by Christ. Is it that you do not understand what it was that he meant when Christ said "IT IS FINISHED"

 

[BigDaddy4]

Money belongs in the hand of whom it serves no matter what the case.

Jesus and his disciples had money. See John 13:29.

 

[megaflies]

You still speak of the old ways, if you put your hand to the plow dont look back, and why do you continue to return to the old ways?

 

[IchoozJC]

You speak of those things that had not yet been fulfilled by Christ. Is it that you do not understand what it was that he meant when Christ said "IT IS FINISHED"

How do you figure? Only one of the 3 scriptures are before the cross. Man working in this life was his intention since the garden of eden. Your gonna be real bummed when you realize that we will be working on the New Earth. Haha

 

[razzelflabben]

I have not worked for over ten years. Everything is taken care for me. It is that I do not larour nor do I toil. I am the servent of my Father and everything is taken care of by Him.

not what I asked you....what did you serve when paying for your internet? That was the question...not did you provide it for yourself, but what did you serve when you paid the bill? Did you pay your bill with chickens? Maybe you took your internet provider to your house for a dinner you grew all of yourself? Is that what you were serving? Your claim was that using money to provide for yourself is serving money...I want to know what you are serving when you pay your bills, not who pays them for you...oh, wait, does that mean you are serving the person who pays the bill for you, rather than the living God?

Oh, and don't forget scriptures teaching about those that don't work....what is it....they don't eat?!

 

[razzelflabben]

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat

Proverbs 21:25 ESV
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor

2 Thessalonians 3:11-12 ESV
For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living

yep...amen

 

[Der Alte]

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat

Proverbs 21:25 ESV
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor

2 Thessalonians 3:11-12 ESV
For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living

Excellent reply! There is no way to verify self aggrandizing anecdotes

 

[razzelflabben]

Megaflies, your last few posts show that you have no real understanding of God or scripture...we can talk about it if you want, but I refuse to get into some battle just so that you can boast of what you do not know.

 

[megaflies]

Megaflies, your last few posts show that you have no real understanding of God or scripture...we can talk about it if you want, but I refuse to get into some battle just so that you can boast of what you do not know.

I would be happy to talk about what it is that I do not know.

 

[razzelflabben]

I would be happy to talk about what it is that I do not know.

not sure where to start, but PM me and we will get to it without getting this thread off topic.