What if Preachers Never Got Paid?

[Norah63]

Just like government, if the supporters want a big church, lots of staff, and they can afford it,
It is american freedom.
. I really enjoy watching some mega church services on tv. They are wanting to provide that for isolated christians to watch.
Small group worship seems normal to me, for it has relationship with it. where if someone is in need they are not overlooked. It might just be a call or visit, not needing a pastor or staff.
It would be nice to have Legacy weigh back in on this thread, give a thought about some posts.

 

[razzelflabben]

Just like government, if the supporters want a big church, lots of staff, and they can afford it,
It is american freedom.
. I really enjoy watching some mega church services on tv. They are wanting to provide that for isolated christians to watch.
Small group worship seems normal to me, for it has relationship with it. where if someone is in need they are not overlooked. It might just be a call or visit, not needing a pastor or staff.
It would be nice to have Legacy weigh back in on this thread, give a thought about some posts.

many of the mega churches have small groups for the very purpose of making sure they don't miss anyone. Not saying it is full proof, but saying, if God grows your church into a mega church, there are ways to make sure that people aren't missed. I mean, who are we to argue with God if mega church is what HE brings to us?

 

[megaflies]

It is that they lay with the harlot , the harlot in reverse, She pays them to lay with her.

 

[razzelflabben]

It is that they lay with the harlot , the harlot in reverse, She pays them to lay with her.

who are we talking about now...this thread changes topics so fast it's hard to keep up

 

[megaflies]

who are we talking about now...this thread changes topics so fast it's hard to keep up

Not a change in topic, the understanding of it. Do you not see the harlot is all of the churches that preach those things that are not in understanding and those that lay with her are those that preach the lack of understanding and receive their reward and pay from the harlot ?

 

[jsimms615]

Money, in and of itself, is not mammon! The priests in the temple received money!

I once knew a person who pastored a small rural church while he was attending seminary. Many churches require a seminary degree. They had a business meeting and discussed raising the salary of the secretary and maintenance man. There was no discussion about raising the salary of the secretary and the maintenance man. But when the subject of the pastor's salary was brought up, it was tabled until the following month. The pastor's salary had not been on the agenda for that month. The following month the raise was not approved. The amount in question was $5. His wife was a nurse and he collected cans to supplement their income.

That sounds more like church politics than anything. Maybe some thought that if they don't raise the pastor's salary he will go somewhere else and they want to get rid of him. Sorry to say it, but it happens.
I've seen churches also cut the pastor's salary and make him bivocational and tell them that he is to try and find work outside of his pastoral job to supplement his income.
You can get a lot more than $5 from collecting cans. I usually get at least $8-10 when I recycle each month.

 

[razzelflabben]

Not a change in topic, the understanding of it. Do you not see the harlot is all of the churches that preach those things that are not in understanding and those that lay with her are those that preach the lack of understanding and receive their reward and pay from the harlot ?

I see that if God is growing them, calling the shots, we don't have a right to call them harlots? That is reserved for those that are not following after God...so when I say, maybe God is growing them into that, it automatically negates the "harlot" understanding, which is why I don't understand your post, cause why would anyone claim that a church that is grown by God, either whored themselves to get that growth, or that God forced Himself upon them to get that result....this just doesn't make sense to me...sorry, I just don't get it...

 

[megaflies]

If God is growing all the churches, with millions and even billions of faithful members, why then does my Father speak of only a remnant that live outside of all that, his chosen.

 

[razzelflabben]

If God is growing all the churches, with millions and even billions of faithful members, why then does my Father speak of only a remnant that live outside of all that, his chosen.

I didn't say all churches were, I said if God grows one to mega status who are we to argue? I reread what I said and still can't figure out what you don't get...seriously...I know you are trying to make a point, but how you think you can use my post to make that point is beyond me, being that nothing you are saying relates to what I actually did say, unless of course you are one of those who thinks changing anothers words and ideas is good?

 

[Lollerskates]

Do you really thing God condones the culture of mega churches when He is about humility, patience, and long-suffering on earth? Even Job suffered through destitution and extreme family loss for a bet (that of course God would win, and for Job inherit benefit.) A minister is not a worldly job deserving of worldly salary. Bread, or manna?

 

[Der Alte]

It is that they lay with the harlot , the harlot in reverse, She pays them to lay with her.

What I understand you to be saying is anyone who does not believe as you do is lying with the harlot?

 

[megaflies]

I say to you that this is not my own understanding, it is for all to hear if they have ears.

 

[Der Alte]

I say to you that this is not my own understanding, it is for all to hear if they have ears.

That may well be, but this homily does not answer my question. What I understand you to be saying is anyone who does not believe as you do is lying with the harlot, is that correct? A simple yes or no, will suffice.

 

[razzelflabben]

Do you really thing God condones the culture of mega churches when He is about humility, patience, and long-suffering on earth? Even Job suffered through destitution and extreme family loss for a bet (that of course God would win, and for Job inherit benefit.) A minister is not a worldly job deserving of worldly salary. Bread, or manna?

now before we talk about the mega church in more detail, keep in mind that I don't know of anyone that has spoken on this thread that believes that minister is a worldly job that should be done for pay...that would simply be a gross misrepresentation of what is being said and since you aren't stooping to that level, we can just disregard those comments.

Now, as to mega churches. My husband was a MK when he was young, his parents, my in laws were missionaries to Nigeria. There, they would baptize when the river beds were full of water and safe, so they could only baptize once a year, however, when they baptized, the churches would have grown so large, that they would call pastors from anywhere they could find them, and baptize all day long, very literally. The services were so well attended that people would have to stand outside, hoping to be able to hear...etc. could tell all kinds of stories. This is a mega church by definition.

Now, what I want to know from you and those who are trying to argue that God cannot grow a mega church, is what do you call the multitudes that came to hear Jesus preach? What of the sermon where they fed the 5 thousand men, plus woman and children? Are you really suggesting that Jesus whored Himself out because He had a "mega church" following? I venture to suggest, you are overspeaking to make your point that the mega churches we see on television are about money, of which we are warned about. The problem is, no one is arguing your point. If a pastor is in it for profit, shame on him. Shame on all who support that profit...but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about God growing a church into the "mega" numbers and why should that trouble us? We are talking about the pastors who would pastor without earthly reward of any kind, and why we shouldn't pay them...etc.

At this point, we will assume you overstated and that it is not really what you intended us to take from yours and another posters posts.

 

[megaflies]

That may well be, but this homily does not answer my question. What I understand you to be saying is anyone who does not believe as you do is lying with the harlot, is that correct? A simple yes or no, will suffice.

Yes.

 

[megaflies]

now before we talk about the mega church in more detail, keep in mind that I don't know of anyone that has spoken on this thread that believes that minister is a worldly job that should be done for pay...that would simply be a gross misrepresentation of what is being said and since you aren't stooping to that level, we can just disregard those comments.

Now, as to mega churches. My husband was a MK when he was young, his parents, my in laws were missionaries to Nigeria. There, they would baptize when the river beds were full of water and safe, so they could only baptize once a year, however, when they baptized, the churches would have grown so large, that they would call pastors from anywhere they could find them, and baptize all day long, very literally. The services were so well attended that people would have to stand outside, hoping to be able to hear...etc. could tell all kinds of stories. This is a mega church by definition.

Now, what I want to know from you and those who are trying to argue that God cannot grow a mega church, is what do you call the multitudes that came to hear Jesus preach? What of the sermon where they fed the 5 thousand men, plus woman and children? Are you really suggesting that Jesus whored Himself out because He had a "mega church" following? I venture to suggest, you are overspeaking to make your point that the mega churches we see on television are about money, of which we are warned about. The problem is, no one is arguing your point. If a pastor is in it for profit, shame on him. Shame on all who support that profit...but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about God growing a church into the "mega" numbers and why should that trouble us? We are talking about the pastors who would pastor without earthly reward of any kind, and why we shouldn't pay them...etc.

At this point, we will assume you overstated and that it is not really what you intended us to take from yours and another posters posts.

If one has understanding then they would know that the baptism that was given to Christ was tollerated and was done that way for then. It is that when Christ was transformed that the only baptism that means anything is done by the High Priest. It is impossible to be baptised by something that does not come from the word of God and expect it to be of any value.

 

[pyramid33]

Where does scripture say that? However "teaching" is everyone's duty, see Matt 28:19.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[megaflies]

If you try to teach that which is not the truth or the understanding then not only do you lead into captivity but you also go into it.

 

[razzelflabben]

If one has understanding then they would know that the baptism that was given to Christ was tollerated and was done that way for then. It is that when Christ was transformed that the only baptism that means anything is done by the High Priest. It is impossible to be baptised by something that does not come from the word of God and expect it to be of any value.

given the above post, I don't know why I would even say this, but the baptism, was an example of how many people God added to that church...kind of like we see in the early church where God added to their numbers daily. As previously stated, when God does the adding to our numbers, we have no right to question it, much less call it whoring around. Unless of course you think that Loving God is to harlot around of which you and I might want to either discuss this in PM or just simply not respond to each other, cause my bible says that having idols and worshiping other gods is whoring and prostituting ourselves, not that we prostitute ourselves when we join ourselves to God. Just saying...

 

[bling]

I would have put that under, what would happen if all our pastors were gifted and called by God, but bravo...your right, one of the things that would happen is that because it was all at God's command and not the pride of man, our churches would grow, but don't forget that another reason the churches grow rapidly is persecution.

All true Christians are “gifted” with the indwelling Holy Spirit, so not sure want you mean by “gifted”?

God seems to like taking those that appear to be incapable and show His capability to work with the weak.

I fully agree severe persecution would help Christianity to grow spiritually and in numbers.

I would also contribute the growth of the underground church in China to the fact they really only have the Bible to work with (no commentaries!!!).

There is also the unique way they all (100 million of them) seem to teach the same thing. The Communist government publicized a long list of what Christian Churches could not teach including: water emersion believer baptism, communion, the deity of Christ, Christ sacrificial death, heaven, hell, etc. The underground church took this list and used it as the subjects of what they do teach.