The official record is the 'facts?' what? The Commission excluded much relevent info regarding that day and now you're claiming mineta is lying? Why? Cheney confirms what he said with his own words.
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What Hit the Pentagon? A UFO!
- Thread starter k
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What do you mean excluded his testimony? His testimony is available to view at the Commission's site. The commission weighed his testimony against all of the other evidence that they had available to them , including multiple testimonies and official log entries that contradicted him. Mineta's recounting of events was not deemed reliable and that is reflected in the CR.
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The problem is thinking the Commission wasn't selective when it clearly was. How did mineta beat cheney to the bunker? Mineta was on the phone with the acting faa director who told him they were tracking 77 on radar. In any case, the russert interview proves cheney spoke with mineta in the bunker.
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Selective in discounting unreliable and substantiated information.
Who knows, and what is the relevence?
He was on the phone with the acting FAA director but there was no mention of Flight 77 being tracked. At least ,not that I can find.
No it doesn't. We can assume that Cheney probably spoke with Mineta while they were in the bunker. However, to say that Cheney stated that they spoke before being informed of the Pentagon hit is simply not true.
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Manipulative Extraterrestrials influenced Adolf Hitler, scholars suggest
Hmmm, I wonder if they are the same ETs that attacked the Pentagon.
Hmmm, I wonder if they are the same ETs that attacked the Pentagon.
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Cheney himself said he spoke with mineta before being told about the impact so if that's not good enough nothing will be. The timeline of the impact in contrast to what you're arguing is also self contradictory.
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No, he did not! Why do you keep repeating that when you know that you can't back it up?
Who is doing the contradicting?
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CCGirl
Resident Commie
MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.
MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.
MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.
So he is saying that the order to shoot down (or NOT shoot down) the hijacked planes were already given before he arrived at 9:20.
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CCGirl
Resident Commie
There are, however, three problems with Mineta's [shoot-down] assumption. In the first place, this interpretation would imply that Cheney had given shoot-down authorization at some time before 9:25, which is much earlier, as we will see below, than even Clarke says. Mineta's interpretation would not fit with the subsequent facts, because the aircraft headed towards the Pentagon was not shot down. Third, Mineta's interpretation would not make the episode intelligible. Had Cheney given the expected order - the order to have an aircraft approaching the Pentagon shot down - we could not explain why the young man asked if the order still stood. It would have been abundantly obvious to him that it would continue to stand until the aircraft was actually shot down. His question would make sense, however, if "the orders" were ones that seemed unusual.
Some critics of the official account have suggested, therefore, that the orders in question were orders not to have the aircraft shot down. But of course this interpretation, while arguably being the more natural one, would also be very threatening to the Bush administration and the Pentagon.
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I'm not sure. It's all rather confusing to me. The contradictions within his testimony don't help any. Factor that together with the fact that his testimony conflicts with USSS alarm logs, with testimonies by several Secret Service agents, countless media reports, VP Cheney, the PEOC Shelter Log, White House phone logs, AF-1 phone logs, Ari Fleisher, and a DoD Transcript. Is it any wonder that his timeline was dismissed by the commission?
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CCGirl
Resident Commie
The only hard evidence to support this new timeline of when Cheney entered the PEOC cannot be verified. In a 2004 briefing with the Secret Service, the 9/11 Commission learned that “the 9:37 entry time in their timeline was based on alarm data, which is no longer retrievable.
A January 27th, 2002 article in the Washington Post states that Cheney didn’t enter the PEOC until after the Pentagon was hit. However, they also mention that Mineta heard about the plane approaching the Pentagon when it was 50, 30 and 10 miles out. The article did not mention the obvious contradiction that Mineta only learned of this by overhearing a conversation involving Cheney, thereby placing Cheney in the PEOC sometime before 9:27 when the plane would have been 50 miles out.
Feature Story on ABC
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER
As I was trying to find all the principals, the Secret Service came and said, you have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House. There are a lot of planes that are in the air that are not responding properly.
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS
In the bunker, the Vice President is joined by Rice and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta.
NORMAN MINETA, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY
Someone came in and said Mr. Vice President, there's a plane out 50 miles.
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS
Mineta confers with Federal Aviation Deputy Chief Monty Belger.
NORMAN MINETA, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY
And so I said, Monty, what do you have? He said, well we're watching this target on the radar, but the transponder's been turned off. So we, have no identification.
cont'd....below
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By any chance is this testimony also disputing the fact that they are tracking a plane or is the plane still relevant?
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NeverStop,
Looks like you got your work cut out for you.
Some things I wanted to comment on:
Hanjour was a terrible pilot and didnt know how to fly worth beans. The OV says that it was indeed him that flew it, but others claim that he was too imcompetent. Why is it hard to believe that he didnt? Maybe they got it wrong and it was another terrorist hijacker. Maybe they convinced the pilot to make a close pass by the pentagon to scare them and forced it a little lower at the last second (I just thought of that! I'm proud of myself
). Maybe Hanjour really has god on his side...
What about the huge holes punched through all those reinforced concrete walls? Some claim that it was the engines but the engines were not found where they should have been if it had indeed been them. Has anyone seen these huge holes?
Looks like you got your work cut out for you.
Some things I wanted to comment on:
Hanjour was a terrible pilot and didnt know how to fly worth beans. The OV says that it was indeed him that flew it, but others claim that he was too imcompetent. Why is it hard to believe that he didnt? Maybe they got it wrong and it was another terrorist hijacker. Maybe they convinced the pilot to make a close pass by the pentagon to scare them and forced it a little lower at the last second (I just thought of that! I'm proud of myself
). Maybe Hanjour really has god on his side... What about the huge holes punched through all those reinforced concrete walls? Some claim that it was the engines but the engines were not found where they should have been if it had indeed been them. Has anyone seen these huge holes?
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CCGirl
Resident Commie
This feature story on ABC news has Condoleezza Rice, the National Security Advisor, admit that Cheney was in the PEOC before the Pentagon was hit. Cheney himself recounts his experiences in the story and never informed ABC News that they had distorted the context under which his quotes were taken. Also, the pilot from the F16 that was scrambled from
Half the post wont stay posted....you can read the transcript here...
Half the post wont stay posted....you can read the transcript here...
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NeverStop,
Looks like you got your work cut out for you.
Some things I wanted to comment on:
Hanjour was a terrible pilot and didnt know how to fly worth beans. The OV says that it was indeed him that flew it, but others claim that he was too imcompetent. Why is it hard to believe that he didnt? Maybe they got it wrong and it was another terrorist hijacker. Maybe they convinced the pilot to make a close pass by the pentagon to scare them and forced it a little lower at the last second (I just thought of that! I'm proud of myself
Hanjour apparently didn't know how to land worth beans. However, as was demonstrated, he was perfectly capable of flying a Boeing 757 into a building.
Not sure what you mean by huge holes, but the holes in the pentagon are not unexplainable.
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I can't find that in the transcript. The only thing that I could find that even comes close to that is the following:
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER
As I was trying to find all the principals, the Secret Service came and said, you have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House. There are a lot of planes that are in the air that are not responding properly.
As I was trying to find all the principals, the Secret Service came and said, you have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House. There are a lot of planes that are in the air that are not responding properly.
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CCGirl
Resident Commie
In a September 11th, 2002, ABC News one year anniversary special with Peter Jennings, ABC details, in chronological order, the official theory before it was updated in the 9/11 Commission Report.
ABC News: [51]
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY, UNITED STATES
I was in my west wing office.
DAVID BOHRER, WHITE HOUSE PHOTOGRAPHER
The Secret Service had come in, to his office. I think it was two or three agents, which is very unusual.
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS
(VO) David Bohrer is another White House photographer, assigned to Vice President Dick Cheney.
DAVID BOHRER, WHITE HOUSE PHOTOGRAPHER
And agents came inside the office and said "Sir, you have to come with us."
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY, UNITED STATES
Put his hand on the back of my belt, grabbed me by my shoulder and sort of propelled me down the hall way.
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS
(VO) And to an underground bunker, the President's
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