What Hit the Pentagon? A UFO!

[David Gould]

I'm sorry, could anyone show where Lear interjects his extraterrestial theories into offering expert flight analysis of 77?

A guy who is a lunatic is not a credible witness. This is why in court cases the prosecution and the defence try to demonstrate that expert witnesses called by the other side are not credible. No jury would take a guy with beliefs like his seriously on any issue. As you want this to work like a trial, you are going to have to be consistent.

See, I know noone can because the pilotsfortruth site has NOT been read. Is it also noticed how many OTHER expert pilots there are?

I am just commenting on your accusation of ad hominem. It is not an ad hominem to point out that someone the defence calls as an expert witness is a lunatic. Expert witnesses need to be credible.

It's clear he's a lunatic to whom? Humility is a good aveune to pursue.

To anyone reading the stuff he believes.

 

[CCGirl]

You cannot dispute the evidence in the flight path video. FWIW, my husband agrees that there is no way this hijacker performed this manouver (He was in the Navy).

Or that the plane could pull out of the death spiral.

 

[mwb]

I can't help going back to John Lear's thoughts (Post 222). I think this is my favorite:

"Our Moon was towed here and placed in orbit around the Earth by a very large machine. There was a time in the recorded history of man when the Earth had no Moon, and also a time when the Earth had two Moons."

 

[mwb]

You cannot dispute the evidence in the flight path video. FWIW, my husband agrees that there is no way this hijacker performed this manouver (He was in the Navy).

Or that the plane could pull out of the death spiral.

So the original pilot crashed the plane?

I thought there was a question of whether a plane was even involved.

 

[David Gould]

You cannot dispute the evidence in the flight path video.

Is this the video of the plane that people say the FBI has hidden, or the made-up flight path that people created from nothing, given that the FBI is hiding all the video? Or is this the official government flight path, that is correct - even though they lied about everything else - or the official government flight path that is incorrect, because they are lying about this, too?

I get so confused about which conspiracy theory I am dealing with.

FWIW, my husband agrees that there is no way this hijacker performed this manouver (He was in the Navy).

Or that the plane could pull out of the death spiral.

FWIW, my dad - who was in the British airforce - disagrees.

 

[k]

Mwb, i have asked you nicely several times so what's the problem? CF has plenty of space if you want to start a lear thread & poke fun at him.

 

[mwb]

I might actually. It's too funny to be missed.

However it still shows the mindset of a person who many people believe. Like I said earlier, people are going to the voting booth & voting based on opinions they read in the fantasy world called the internet. I find that incredibly dangerous.

My objective was not to smear Lear. He was the first person I selected because his father invented the Lear Jet so I thought he might have some credibility. It's not my fault he's loopy. Unfortunately it only takes one person to destroy the credibility of the group.

 

[k]

I will no longer respond to your posts as you have demonstrated an inability to discuss the merits & this is not for your benefit but for others in case a legit post falls out of the sky. Have a good night.

 

[k]

David, i do have a theory but it would derail the thread & iam still working on the details. When it's ready a new thread will be created. Right now, there are too many things in the op unaddressed.

 

[k]

Iow, what gets established here will determine the theory thread. Mineta is crucial to that theory & so far iam satisfied cheney was in peoc before 77 hit.

 

[oldbetang]

77 hit at 9:38---your claim (defending the CR) is that Cheney didn't get to peoc 'til 9:58...in Cheney's own words: But when I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagon's been hit.

"Short order" is anywhere between 10-15 minutes. That means, according to the CR, Cheney was not informed of 77 impact' till about 30 minutes after it hit.

Short order can be anywhere from a few seconds to 15 minutes. I think a couple a minutes after he got to the PEOC is the most likely. So, if we view Cheney’s recollection without considering the possibility that it’s not entirely accurate or that it's disorganized, that makes it 22 minutes after the Pentagon hit.

I didn't say "bunker" but HALLWAY bunker. His words:

While I was there, over the next several minutes, watching developments on the television and as we started to get organized to figure out what to do, my Secret Service agents came in and, under these circumstances, they just move. They don't say "sir" or ask politely. They came in and said, "Sir, we have to leave immediately," and grabbed me and...

This "next several minutes" is right after the south tower was hit. Several minutes is roughly 5-8 minutes. That puts him in the hall bunker by 9:10. Are we supposed to believe he stayed in the hallway until 9:58 am?

From the interview:

VICE PRES. CHENEY: Yeah. Then I convened in my office. Condi Rice came down. Her office is right near mine there in the West Wing.

MR. RUSSERT: The national security adviser.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: National security adviser, my chief of staff, Scooter Libby, Mary Matalin, who works for me, convened in my office, and we started talking about getting the Counterterrorism Task Force up and operating. I talked with the president. I'd given word to Andy Card's staff, who is right next door, to get hold of Andy and/or the president and that I wanted to talk to him as soon as they could hook it up. This call came in, and the president knew at this point about that. We discussed a statement that he might make, and the first statement he made describing this as an act of apparent terrorism flowed out of those conversations

​

At 9:10 the President was still in the classroom listening to a reading of My Pet Goat. In fact, he never left the classroom until 9:12 , 7 minutes after Card had informed him of the second tower hit. The phone call with the President never began until 9:15. That pretty much rules out your timeline.

 

[k]

Okay, bottom line is you're claiming it was 22 minutes before cheney was told about the pent?

 

[k]

Wait, was my post chopped?

 

[oldbetang]

This is very strange.....Cheney's OWN words are:

I had Norm Mineta...access to the FAA.

So now people are actually trying to change Cheney's OWN WORDS??????????!!!!!!!!!!

LOL! Cheney's own words are:

I went down into what's call a PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, and there, I had Norm Mineta... ​

...secretary of Transportation, access to the FAA.​

So, just who is trying to change Cheney's OWN WORDS????????

 

[k]

You cut out a serious part of my timeline post. The part that shows cheney admitting he'd talked with mineta, rice, & had the video conf. Before he was told about 77. Thanks for proving he was there!

 

[k]

I didn't change cheney's word at all. It's clear i just edited out russert's interruption.

 

[oldbetang]

Okay, bottom line is you're claiming it was 22 minutes before cheney was told about the pent?

No, I'm not. I'm saying that if we don't allow any leeway in Cheney's statements, if we don't assume that he really meant to say that it was when he reached the tunnel bunker that he heard about the pentagon, then it would be 22 minutes before being told of the hit. I think that we really know that he first heard about the Pentagon hit when he was in the tunnel.

 

[CCGirl]

I didn't change cheney's word at all. It's clear i just edited out russert's interruption.

Lets move on....these silly distractions are reallly annoying...

Yes, we have established that Cheney was in the bunker with Mineta, Rice joined later, Mineta overheard the VP getting updates of "50 miles out, 30 miles out, 10 miles out), Cheney had Mineta patched through to FAA...

Lets move on.

 

[oldbetang]

I didn't change cheney's word at all. It's clear i just edited out russert's interruption.

You left out the comma. That makes a huge difference.

 

[k]

You have to be kidding!!!! Cheney himself said in CLEAR ENGLISH the first time he heard he was in the peoc. Can't believe you are contradicting what cheney said. Done with you too!