What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[JohnRabbit]

So you admit the Ten Commandments are the law. Wonderful admission. I love it!!!!

oh my!

 

[Elder 111]

I would say that those who seemingly worship the Law instead of the Savior have made into it an idol. Jesus saw this in the Pharisees they exalted the Law above God.

Because a man say God's Ten commadnments is holy and should form part of the Christian's life, he is an idol worshipers? So to say that one should have no other God than the creator of Heaven and earth marks one to be an idolator.
Great!

 

[VictorC]

i'd add:

Romans 7:7(NKJV)
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

We all know the quote "You shall not covet" is found only within the body of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21). Now, quote the verse previous to yours, and tell me what the narrative is telling us in plain langage.

 

[VictorC]

I am of a cult because I maintain that God's holy law always exited, written on stone or not. That the sin committed by those before Sinai were guilty of breaking the Ten Commandment law.

I'm glad that you're excited. But of course what you're taught is contrary to the Law and isn't the truth. You didn't tell us what you are (although those of us who have posted here a long time already know), and what group your comments represent. Why are you so ashamed of identifying yourself?

Your quotation above highlights the fact that where there is "no law there is no transgression" So how can there be sin without the law before Sinai?

I had to correct your quote, underlined, to reflect the Biblical record.
You admit that the Biblical record is contrary to your opinion, and yet your sole recourse is to question the Biblical record. Unless you accept the Word of God as the truth, your rhetorical questions are meaningless.

 

[VictorC]

That is why there is no logical answer to them.

I read the post you gave this reply to. In it you admitted that you don't believe God's Word as the final arbiter of the truth.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Because a man say God's Ten commadnments is holy and should form part of the Christian's life, he is an idol worshipers? So to say that one should have no other God than the creator of Heaven and earth marks one to be an idolator.
Great!

When one replaces the Savior (God) with the 10 commandments they are in a sense idolizing them.

 

[VictorC]

I would say that those who seemingly worship the Law instead of the Savior have made into it an idol. Jesus saw this in the Pharisees they exalted the Law above God.

This is a good point you make. There is a Biblical precedent of God removing something that He had installed for the good of the recipients, when it became an idol.

Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

Later it was removed:

2 Kings 18
Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea the son of Elah, king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz, king of Judah, began to reign. 2 He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty-nine years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah. 3 And he did what was right in the sight of the Lord, according to all that his father David had done.
4 He removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars, cut down the wooden image and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made; for until those days the children of Israel burned incense to it, and called it Nehushtan. 5 He trusted in the Lord God of Israel, so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor who were before him. 6 For he held fast to the Lord; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the Lord had commanded Moses. 7 The Lord was with him; he prospered wherever he went. And he rebelled against the king of Assyria and did not serve him. 8 He subdued the Philistines, as far as Gaza and its territory, from watchtower to fortified city.

 

[JohnRabbit]

We all know the quote "You shall not covet" is found only within the body of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21). Now, quote the verse previous to yours, and tell me what the narrative is telling us in plain langage.

Romans 7:6(NKJV)
6But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

we have been delivered from the law, as in not keeping it? wouldn't that go against what he said in verse 12?

so delivered from the law must mean it's penalty - rom 6:23! correct?

surely, you're not believing that we have been delivered from something that is holy and just, and good!

 

[VictorC]

Romans 7:6(NKJV)
6But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

we have been delivered from the law, as in not keeping it?

Where do you see any mention of anyone keeping the law?
That isn't what the text you quoted says, is it?

wouldn't that go against what he said in verse 12?

No.

so delivered from the law must mean it's penalty - rom 6:23! correct?

No.

surely, you're not believing that we have been delivered from something that is holy and just, and good!

Yes.
The preface to the discourse is found in verse 1 where it says "I speak to those who know the law". This passage addresses the recipients of the Law (that isn't the Gentiles). It then very plainly tells us that we have been delivered from the law that held us in the past tense, and then identifies the law we've been delivered from as the Ten Commandments.

You reversed the relationship of what kept whom in your reply. That isn't what the text says, and so the plain meaning of the text eluded you.
Why we have been delivered from the Law becomes clear when you read what the author actually wrote, instead of forcing your reversed relationship into his narrative.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Where do you see any mention of anyone keeping the law?
That isn't what the text you quoted says, is it?

No.

No.

Yes.
The preface to the discourse is found in verse 1 where it says "I speak to those who know the law". This passage addresses the recipients of the Law (that isn't the Gentiles). It then very plainly tells us that we have been delivered from the law that held us in the past tense, and then identifies the law we've been delivered from as the Ten Commandments.

You reversed the relationship of what kept whom in your reply. That isn't what the text says, and so the plain meaning of the text eluded you.
Why we have been delivered from the Law becomes clear when you read what the author actually wrote, instead of forcing your reversed relationship into his narrative.

i hear you Vic,

so reversed, that's why paul says he keeps the law of God later in the chapter, but i guess that eluded you!

 

[VictorC]

i hear you Vic,

so reversed, that's why paul says he keeps the law of God later in the chapter, but i guess that eluded you!

Paul never says any such thing.

Romans 7
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

In the final analysis, you didn't hear what Paul actually wrote. You didn't even find it in yourself to acknowledge that we have been delivered from the Ten Commandments, which is what he wrote. All I did was to point you to the previous verse, only to watch you contend against its clear meaning.

 

[JohnRabbit]

In the final analysis, you didn't hear what Paul actually wrote. You didn't even find it in yourself to acknowledge that we have been delivered from the Ten Commandments, which is what he wrote. All I did was to point you to the previous verse, only to watch you contend against its clear meaning.

which is why paul said:

1 Corinthians 7:19(NKJV)
19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

he served the law of God!

it's plainly written, or does all these verses elude you?

 

[VictorC]

which is why paul said:

1 Corinthians 7:19(NKJV)
19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

he served the law of God!

it's plainly written, or does all these verses elude you?

Review our conversation: Have you determined why God delivered us from the Ten Commandments?
And if components of the old covenant "is nothing", what makes you reach for the old covenant for the commandments of God?

 

[from scratch]

which is why paul said:

1 Corinthians 7:19(NKJV)
19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

he served the law of God!

it's plainly written, or does all these verses elude you?

So who is it that keeps the commandments? The Bible says no one. Should I believe it?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Review our conversation: Have you determined why God delivered us from the Ten Commandments?
And if components of the old covenant "is nothing", what makes you reach for the old covenant for the commandments of God?

why would God want to deliver us from His ways (deut 5:33)?

 

[JohnRabbit]

So who is it that keeps the commandments? The Bible says no one. Should I believe it?

you make this too easy scratch!

Revelation 14:12(NKJV)
12Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

so the answer is the saints!

 

[VictorC]

why would God want to deliver us from His ways (deut 5:33)?

It looks like you're running away as fast as you can from your initial Scripture quote. I don't want to presume why. Just answer the questions.

• Have you determined why God delivered us from the Ten Commandments?
• And if components of the old covenant "is nothing", what makes you reach for the old covenant for the commandments of God?

 

[Elder 111]

No that can't be the definition of sin. Lack of faith is also a sin and not required by the law.

So the bible fail to properly describe sin?
WE must therefore reject the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in 1 John3:4?
Sin is not the transgression of the law. What is your definition?

 

[VictorC]

So the bible fail to properly describe sin?

A silly rhetorical question such as this is impossible to reconcile with the many Biblical passages you've rejected, that define sin as an entity separate in origin from the covenant Law mediated through Moses.

 

[Elder 111]

I'm glad that you're excited. But of course what you're taught is contrary to the Law and isn't the truth. You didn't tell us what you are (although those of us who have posted here a long time already know), and what group your comments represent. Why are you so ashamed of identifying yourself?



I had to correct your quote, underlined, to reflect the Biblical record.
You admit that the Biblical record is contrary to your opinion, and yet your sole recourse is to question the Biblical record. Unless you accept the Word of God as the truth, your rhetorical questions are meaningless.

Ashamed! Of God? I am a child of God. A christian. A faithful student of the word of God.