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It was a bandaid on the bleeding wound festering on mankind called sin until the doctor (Jesus) could make a way for us to be healed of it. In other words it was better than nothing as mankind had very few (Abraham) men that would faithfully follow him so the Law was created to force men to not do evil. People who had faith in God didn't need the Law in reality but because it was given to Israel as a nation they too had it forced upon them.
Yes Paul calls it a teacher, but if you look farther into the lack of success of the Law to rein in sin, and encourage people to follow God instead of choosing to do evil the Law was a failure overall. It did manage to help hold Israel together long enough for Jesus to be born through and minister to it but they corporately rejected yet another teacher. First they rejected God as their teacher, then the Law, then Jesus.Scripture, along with historical Christian teaching, maintains that the law was actually given as a teacher, a dramatic demonstration of mans inability to keep the law/refrain from sin-until a new and better covenant came along.
Yes, I did. Scripture asserts both that faith saves us-and that we must remain in-i.e. that we can fall from-that faith and the grace that produces and surrounds it.You didn't respond about the verse I quoted nor did you answer the question.
The Law was a necessary step in Gods plan of salvation for man-He doesn't fail, He's drawing His creation into greater perfection.Yes Paul calls it a teacher, but if you look farther into the lack of success of the Law to rein in sin, and encourage people to follow God instead of choosing to do evil the Law was a failure overall. It did manage to help hold Israel together long enough for Jesus to be born through and minister to it but they corporately rejected yet another teacher. First they rejected God as their teacher, then the Law, then Jesus.
The Law was a necessary step in Gods plan of salvation for man-He doesn't fail, He's drawing His creation into greater perfection.
I'd say it worked perfectly and was fulfilled perfectly.
Does anyone here critically THINK about the issue, or do they just spout what they've been taught in Sunday School?
Does a teacher teaching history become invalid because they teach history and the present is different?
I don't consider the Law as a step to draw his creation into perfection but rather as an example to mankind about perfection itself. Jesus is about perfection and had to deliver mankind from the Law so they could attain perfection which only exists in God by his spirit indwelling us.The Law was a necessary step in Gods plan of salvation for man-He doesn't fail, He's drawing His creation into greater perfection.
I think some are thinking.... and some are just regurgitating things they were indoctrinated into by their "group".Does anyone here critically THINK about the issue, or do they just spout what they've been taught in Sunday School?
Originally Posted by Elder 111
I will like to know what have been our personal understanding of the Ten Commandments and they relationship in the work of salvation.
I believe that putting our believes to the test is useful to gaining a right perspective.
I have placed a poll where you can vote more than once according to what you have accepted/understood from scripture.
Maybe we can come to a consensus at the end of the exercise.
The issue isn't the principles of the Ten Commandments. You're arguing anyone who does the things the Ten Commandments requires is living by them. This idea is false and has been shown to you by illustration on several occasions.
You still demand what is false. Why?
I have this queasy feeling that this thread is going to eventually lead up to the 4th commandment sabbathI have said no such thing in the OP. The principles of the Ten commandments is what is under discussion.
But let's take what your are saying into consideration.
They is no problem with observing the principles of the Ten Commandments and doing so is not the same as living by what the Ten Commandments says.
That is the same as saying that you should drive within the speed limit but is not the same as observing the speed limit rules. Interesting.
True. But God works in His world, leading His chosen people ultimately to the fullest revelation of righteousness: Jesus Christ Himself. Salvation is a historical effort, part of this is in His teaching us-in our coming to learn-that we cannot achieve righteousness on our own, apart from Him, even if we're told what that righteousness should look like via the law. We didn't need to be delivered from the law so much as we have to go beyond it, to the source of true holiness, as you say the indwelling of God's Spirit. It's a step-by-step process; Jesus didn't come until human history was ripe for it.I don't consider the Law as a step to draw his creation into perfection but rather as an example to mankind about perfection itself. Jesus is about perfection and had to deliver mankind from the Law so they could attain perfection which only exists in God by his spirit indwelling us.
I don't believe we can achieve righteousness at all.... period, with or without help. To say we can do so with help is to basically set our sinful body up on the cross next to Jesus and say that our on death on the cross helps Jesus save us..... nonsense! he did it all we help none but believe in his accomplishment. Abraham didn't have the Law in sight and Gentiles should read the New Testament and Paul's writings and find the Law is not ours to partake of we have all we need there to be holy regardless of the Law.True. But God works in His world, leading His chosen people ultimately to the fullest revelation of righteousness: Jesus Christ Himself. Salvation is a historical effort, part of this is in His teaching us-in our coming to learn-that we cannot achieve righteousness on our own, apart from Him, even if we're told what that righteousness should look like via the law. We didn't need to be delivered from the law so much as we have to go beyond it, to the source of true holiness, as you say the indwelling of God's Spirit. It's a step-by-step process; Jesus didn't come until human history was ripe for it.
What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??
I have this queasy feeling that this thread is going to eventually lead up to the 4th commandment sabbath
Any bets on that?
edit to add: fwiw, I haven't yet voted]..................
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View Poll Results: What do you understand about the Ten Commandments?
The ten Commandments belong to God.... banner over me was love, bbbbbbb, Elder 111, fhansen, FlameAlchemist, GratiaCorpusChristi, Mazock, TargetPractice
The Ten Commandments belong to Moses.... bbbbbbb, GratiaCorpusChristi
The principles of the Ten commandments are restricted to a time period.... bbbbbbb, GratiaCorpusChristi
The principles of the Ten Commandments are/were for all times.... AvilaSurfer, banner over me was love, bbbbbbb, Elder 111, fhansen, FlameAlchemist, GratiaCorpusChristi, Lprdgecko, Mazock, TargetPractice
Jesus/God wrote the Ten Commandments.... AvilaSurfer, banner over me was love, bbbbbbb, Elder 111, fhansen, FlameAlchemist, GratiaCorpusChristi, Lprdgecko, Mazock, TargetPractice
Moses wrote the Ten Commandments bbbbbbb, GratiaCorpusChristi
Only the Jews will be judge by the principles of the Ten Commandments.... bbbbbbb, GratiaCorpusChristi
The principles of the Ten Commandments is what Jesus meant will not change.... Mat 5:17-19. banner over me was love, bbbbbbb, Elder 111, fhansen, GratiaCorpusChristi, Mazock, TargetPractice
A Christians can be saved without living up to the principles of the Ten Commandments.... bbbbbbb, GratiaCorpusChristi, Lprdgecko, Mazock
.
God wants to save us, so why "increase trespass" when His aim is to remove it all together?it says so right here, why the law was given, clear as day..
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Only if you want to be so. For instance, The ten commandments can not be of Moses and God too. It either belongs to Moses or to God.I know what I believe. I just think the poll is really poorly worded, and you could fairly interpret (almost) every single option in a favorable, orthodox light.
What is it then?No not at all.
This sounds like what you are saying.I wouldn't call being judged by the Law and found guilty and denied access to heaven salvation. The bible says that those whose standard of righteousness is the Law will be judged by that standard and those whose standard is Jesus and what he did including his sinless life and the cross will be judged AS if they were Jesus themselves and found righteous. I have a feeling that only a very few will be allowed in heaven via the Law as God may be merciful and let some by even though in reality they did fail to keep it. To take that chance against tremendous odds when you have a guaranteed way through Christ is foolish IMO.
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