WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNREPENTANT WICKED AFTER THE 2ND COMING?

[Mr. M]

David submits to YHWH as his King.
Psalm 10:16. The LORD is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
Psalm 29:10. The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD sitteth King for ever.
Psalm 44:4. Thou art my King, O God: command deliverances for Jacob.
Psalm 47: 2 For the Lord Most High is awesome;
He is a great King over all the earth.
6 Sing praises to God, sing praises!
Sing praises to our King, sing praises!
7 For God is the King of all the earth;
Sing praises with understanding.
8 God reigns over the nations;
God sits on His holy throne.
Psalm 68:24. They have seen thy goings, O God; even the goings of my God,
my King, in the sanctuary.
Psalm 74:12. For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
Psalm 89:18. For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our King.
Psalm 95:3. For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

 

[Mr. M]

I'm well familiar with the scripture. Pretty standard fare.

For those who receive from above to rightly comprehend them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Let's recap.

I see that you agree with me that there are but two conditions for salvation upon which all Christians agree. If you disagree, please feel free to add any other conditions which you believe are essential.

 

[Hawkins]

By the hardcore universalists in this forum then, they are saved.

 

[HARK!]

For those who receive from above to rightly comprehend them.

I haven't noticed anyone struggling with those verses; but then again the churches I've attended repeat this message ad nauseam.

I find it interesting that you mention this; because I've attended numerous churches, of multiple denominations, over diverse geographic regions; even some where I've needed translators to understand the service.

 

[HARK!]

I see that you agree with me that there are but two conditions for salvation upon which all Christians agree. If you disagree, please feel free to add any other conditions which you believe are essential.

I get it. You can't prove your assertion. I didn't believe that you could. That's why I asked. No need to try to change the subject, and shift the burden of proof.

One must be utterly sinless and perfect to enter the kingdom of heaven.

I'll accept your concession that you might have misspoken.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I get it. You can't prove your assertion. I didn't believe that you could. That's why I asked. No need to try to change the subject, and shift the burden of proof.

I'll accept your concession that you might have misspoken.

Please feel free to accept anything you desire. It is, after all, a free country.

 

[Mr. M]

I haven't noticed anyone struggling with those verses; but then again the churches I've attended repeat this message ad nauseam

Then why do you disagree with the meaning of this verse:
Isaiah 11:4. But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
The sceptre of his mouth- law from the lawgiver.
breath of his lips-ruach-Holy Spirit.
Or are you referring to the list of scriptures you posted on The Way, The Truth, The Life. I don't have any problems with any of them. How do they pertain to what happens to the wicked after the second coming? That was the topic of the OP.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then why do you disagree with the meaning of this verse:
Isaiah 11:4. But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
The sceptre of his mouth- law from the lawgiver.
breath of his lips-ruach-Holy Spirit.
Or are you referring to the list of scriptures you posted on The Way, The Truth, The Life. I don't have any problems with any of them. How do they pertain to what happens to the wicked after the second coming? That was the topic of the OP.

Yep good scripture MM. It is through the Word of God that all things exist. There is so many of these scriptures. Thanks for sharing

 

[LoveGodsWord]

JUDE 1:9 EVERLASTING FIRE SAME WORD USED IN 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9

JUDE 1:9 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are SET FORTH FOR AN EXAMPLE, SUFFERING THE VENGEANCE OF ETERNAL FIRE.

The "ETERNAL FIRE" here is the presence of God...

The scripture is stating that Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them were set forth as an EXAMPLE to the unrepentant wicked who would suffer God’s VENGENCE of "ETERNAL FIEW". The fire is not an ordinary earthly fire but one coming from God the eternal one. Jude here is describing the divine nature of this fire by qualifying it as pyr aiōnion to the context of an "EXAMPLE" δεῖγμα of GOD'S "VENGENCE, JUDGEMENT or PUNISHMENT" δίκη. This fire is from the presence of the ETERNAL LIVING GOD as GOD is this ETERNAL FIRE!

God here is described as a “consuming fire” ......

DEUTERONOMY 4:24, For Jehovah thy GOD IS A DEVOURING FIRE, a jealous God

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL EXPECTATION OF JUDGMENT, AND A FIERCENESS OF FIRE WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

HEBREWS 12:25-29 [25], See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned them on earth, much more shall not we escape who turn away from him that warneth from heaven:[26], whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven. [27], And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. [28], Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe:[29], FOR OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.

1 THESSALONIANS 1:7-9 [7], to you that are afflicted rest with us, at THE REVELATION OF THE LORD JESUS FROM HEAVEN WITH THE ANGELS OF HIS POWER IN FLAMING FIRE,[8], RENDERING VENGEANCE TO THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND TO THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS: [9], WHO SHALL SUFFER PUNISHMENT, EVEN ETERNAL DESTRUCTION FROM THE FACE OF THE LORD and from the glory of his might,

The "ETERNAL FIRE" is from the presence of the ETERNAL GOD.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

God has SWORN OATHS that:

• all nations shall be blessed through the seed of Abraham (Genesis 22:18)
• as surely as He lives, every knee will bow and every tongue confess, and all will know that only God is righteous. (Isaiah 45:23-24, Romans 14:11)

There is NO HIGHER EXPRESSION of the will of God than when He swears an oath:

For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, (Hebrews 6:13)

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

So why does this not put an end to all argument as to the ultimate destiny of mankind? Why does the mission of Jesus to save the world not condemn it (John 3:17) need to be doubted by self-professing Christians?

Do you dare to challenge God's covenantal oaths? Do you deny the power of God to accomplish His will? Do you look to quibble with the absolute terms in which the oaths are stated?

The Book of Revelation discloses the ultimate means by which God's unbreakable promise of universal salvation by faith are to be accomplished. Verses like Revelation 15:4 and the final visions from Revelation 20:13 onwards reveal the consummation of those promises that were sealed in holy blood at Calvary. Or do you prefer to abuse the gospel of glad tidings of great joy for all mankind? (Luke 2:10)

The Lake of Fire is readily understood as the remedial means by which conversion is brought about for stubborn sinners. For if God tortures or annihilates ppl forever in the LoF, how can He discharge His great covenantal oaths, and how can Christ's victory be achieved? The answer is that THEY CANNOT.

So I exhort you to apply your reason to deduce that the Lake of Fire is an instrument of God's salvation of all, which is the alpha and omega.

BEHOLD, I AM MAKING ALL THINGS NEW! (Revelation 21:5, Acts 3:21, Matthew 19:28)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

God has SWORN OATHS that:

• all nations shall be blessed through the seed of Abraham (Genesis 22:18)
• as surely as He lives, every knee will bow and every tongue confess, and all will know that only God is righteous. (Isaiah 45:23-24, Romans 14:11)

All nations are blessed through the seed of Abraham as God has declared. This does not mean that all the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life.
There is NO HIGHER EXPRESSION of the will of God than when He swears an oath:
For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, (Hebrews 6:13)

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

Indeed. This does not mean that all those who reject God and his Word and all the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life now does it?

So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)
So why does this not put an end to all argument as to the ultimate destiny of mankind?

Because this same word as shown in the OP states that the unrepentant wicked at the seconds coming are destroyed and perish in the second death (see God's Word in the OP) and none of the scriptures you have provided state that the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life as God's Word that accomplishes what it says states they are destroyed and do not receive eternal life.

Why does the mission of Jesus to save the world not condemn it (John 3:17) need to be doubted by self-professing Christians?

Do you dare to challenge God's covenantal oaths? Do you deny the power of God to accomplish His will? Do you look to quibble with the absolute terms in which the oaths are stated?

The Book of Revelation discloses the ultimate means by which God's unbreakable promise of universal salvation by faith are to be accomplished. Verses like Revelation 15:4 and the final visions from Revelation 20:13 onwards reveal the consummation of those promises that were sealed in holy blood at Calvary. Or do you prefer to abuse the gospel of glad tidings of great joy for all mankind? (Luke 2:10)

The Lake of Fire is readily understood as the remedial means by which conversion is brought about for stubborn sinners. For if God tortures or annihilates ppl forever in the LoF, how can He discharge His great covenantal oaths, and how can Christ's victory be achieved? The answer is that THEY CANNOT.

So I exhort you to apply your reason to deduce that the Lake of Fire is an instrument of God's salvation of all, which is the alpha and omega.

BEHOLD, I AM MAKING ALL THINGS NEW! (Revelation 21:5, Acts 3:21, Matthew 19:28)

DITTO..

Hope this helps.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Indeed. This does not mean that all those who reject God and his Word and all the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life now does it?

It plainly means that God will save them from their rebellious love of sin. What else could it be?

Because this same word as shown in the OP states that the unrepentant wicked at the seconds coming are destroyed and perish in the second death (see God's Word in the OP) and none of the scriptures you have provided state that the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life as God's Word that accomplishes what it says states they are destroyed and do not receive eternal life.

So God's a liar, promising to save all but instead annihilating many forever. Is that what you're saying?

Hope this helps!!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It plainly means that God will save them from their rebellious love of sin. What else could it be?

No, not at all dear friend. Not a single scripture you have provided says that the unrepentant wicked received eternal life after the second coming. God's Word teaches that that are detroyed after the second coming and receive the second death and perish (see God's Word in the OP). None of the scriptures you have provided state that the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life. God's Word does indeed accomplish what it says and it states that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming are destroyed and do not receive eternal life.

So God's a liar, promising to save all but instead annihilating many forever. Is that what you're saying?Hope this helps!!

God promises to save all that will choose eternal life that come to him before the second coming and accept the gift of God's dear son. The unrepentant wicked according to the scriptures do not choose God's gift but the second death in the lake of fire where they are to be destroyed, burned up and perish *JOHN 3:36; 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9; JOHN 5:28-29; REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8 etc etc.. (see also here for more scripture).

Hope this helps dear friend.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

No, not at all dear friend. Not a single scripture you have provided says that the unrepentant wicked received eternal life after the second coming. God's Word teaches that that are detroyed after the second coming and receive the second death and perish (see God's Word in the OP). None of the scriptures you have provided state that the unrepentant wicked at the second coming will receive everlasting life. God's Word does indeed accomplish what it says and it states that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming are destroyed and do not receive eternal life.

So do you say God will make all those dead knees bow and dead tongues confess? That would be arrant nonsense.

Tell me LGW, are you consumed by God's love? Do you devour God's word? Do you eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood? Do you wash daily in Lamb's Blood?

God promises to save all that will choose eternal life that come to him before the second coming and accept the gift of God's dear son.

Oh LGWSDA, don't you know the scriptures:

And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mk 2:17, Lk 5:31-2, Mt 9:12-13)

There's no need to save those who are already on the righteous path, it's the sinners that need salvation. And you seem to be hell-bent on denying his ability to do it.

I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. (Isa 45:23)

For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. (Jn 3:17)

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. (2 Cor 5:17)

 

[bbbbbbb]

So do you say God will make all those dead knees bow and dead tongues confess? That would be arrant nonsense.

Tell me LGW, are you consumed by God's love? Do you devour God's word? Do you eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood? Do you wash daily in Lamb's Blood?



Oh LGWSDA, don't you know the scriptures:

And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mk 2:17, Lk 5:31-2, Mt 9:12-13)

There's no need to save those who are already on the righteous path, it's the sinners that need salvation. And you seem to be hell-bent on denying his ability to do it.

I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. (Isa 45:23)

For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. (Jn 3:17)

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. (2 Cor 5:17)

Is everyone "in Christ"?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Is everyone "in Christ"?

After revelation the 'objective' victory of Christ becomes 'subjective'. The work of the cross is unbreakable, but faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ.

If you accept this in general terms, then all we disagree on is a question of scale, or not?

 

[Der Alte]

After revelation the 'objective' victory of Christ becomes 'subjective'. The work of the cross is unbreakable, but faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ.
If you accept this in general terms, then all we disagree on is a question of scale, or not?

What would be nice is two or more scriptures which unequivocally state "that faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ" happens after death, in the lake of fire etc..

 

[Shrewd Manager]

What would be nice is two or more scriptures which unequivocally state "that faith comes through hearing, the heart is changed and the scales fall from the eyes. Behold the new man in Christ" happens after death, in the lake of fire etc..

Does not Christ raise the dead to life time and again? Why do you think death or hell are impediments to salvation? Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.

 

[Der Alte]

* * * For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, (Hebrews 6:13)
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)
So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)
So why does this not put an end to all argument as to the ultimate destiny of mankind? Why does the mission of Jesus to save the world not condemn it (John 3:17) need to be doubted by self-professing Christians? * * *

Will the words of God in Jeremiah 13:9-14 accomplish the desires of God, Isa 55:11
In this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist.
It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.