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What gives us the right to kill on the Battlefield?

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Johnboy60

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Hi, I have a friend that goes to the SDA church. He told me he would never fight on a battlefield because he said Jesus said to love your enemys and not to kill your enemys. He said the only people that fight for life is the people that believe there is no God. If your saved you have no fear of death. Jesus did say not to kill your enemys and to love your enemys as yourself. When Jesus came the old testamant was replaced by the new testament which speaks against killing or does it?

Robert.
 

Michael713

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Robert43 said:
Hi, I have a friend that goes to the SDA church. He told me he would never fight on a battlefield because he said Jesus said to love your enemys and not to kill your enemys. He said the only people that fight for life is the people that believe there is no God. If your saved you have no fear of death. Jesus did say not to kill your enemys and to love your enemys as yourself. When Jesus came the old testamant was replaced by the new testament which speaks against killing or does it?

Robert.
Well, unfortunatly for us there WILL be war, killing, and murdering until Jesus comes to fix everything.....

Would your friend not kill an intruder in his home who comes to rob him of everything he loves?
 
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herev

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Robert43 said:
Hi, I have a friend that goes to the SDA church. He told me he would never fight on a battlefield because he said Jesus said to love your enemys and not to kill your enemys. He said the only people that fight for life is the people that believe there is no God. If your saved you have no fear of death. Jesus did say not to kill your enemys and to love your enemys as yourself. When Jesus came the old testamant was replaced by the new testament which speaks against killing or does it?

Robert.
Your friend speaks rather decidedly in saying that those who believe in no God are the only ones doing the killing. Many, if not most of the Americans in the current battlefield are God fearing--many, if not most of the Iraqis are Muslim, believing in their One God, as well, so he really needs to explain what that means.
AS to your intended question--it's a matter of interpretation--Jesus said that whosoever would lay down his life for another is showing the greatest love--what if those who fight and risk death are doing so to protect innocent Americans, Iraquis, etc? Would that contradict your friend's belief?
Good question, though.
Tommy
 
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Johnboy60

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Hi, I asked him that question and he said he would try to talk the person out of bring harm to him and his family but would not kill or harm the person. He said the only people that would fight is the people that fear death and put life over heaven. You no the J.W. are the same as the SDA when comes to killing on Battlefield.

Robert.
 
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Michael713

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Robert43 said:
Hi, I asked him that question and he said he would try to talk the person out of bring harm to him and his family but would not kill or harm the person. He said the only people that would fight is the people that fear death and put life over heaven. You no the J.W. are the same as the SDA when comes to killing on Battlefield.

Robert.
Well, u better tell your friend to buy a few extra locks for his doors, b/c there are people out there who wouldnt give him a chance to defend himself (physically or verbally)

your friend is speaking from a nice, safe place isnt he.
He is basically saying he isnt afraid of death. I have never met a person who didnt fear death on some level.

Does he not fear an early death? one that would steal his chance to positivly affect another person's life? one that would steal his chance to bring others into the kingdom?
 
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Johnboy60

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Hi, Where does the Bible say it's ok to kill someone on the Battlefield? Someone told me the Bible said something about what God or Jesus said about killing by sword and will be killed by sword. Or something like that.

Robert.
 
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twolvesballer

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But if you can't read pdf's it is summarized in these verses:

Romans 13:1,4
1Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God. 4The authorities are sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for you will be punished. The authorities are established by God for that very purpose, to punish those who do wrong.
God Gave governments the right to punish evil, and they do so with their armies, so yes, it is OK to kill, if it means to eliminate the ones who are evil.

Best wishes,
Alec
 
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hraedisc

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[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION or COMBATANCY? [/font]​

In The Review and Herald of March 7, 1865, the position of the SDA Church was set forth as follows:

"Why Seventh-day Adventists Cannot Engage in War


"1. They could not keep the Lord's holy Sabbath. 'The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shall not do any work.' Ex. 20:10. Fighting, as military men tell us, is the hardest kind of work; and the seventh day of all days would be the least regarded in the camp and field.


"2. The sixth command of God's moral law reads, 'Thou shalt not kill.' To kill is to take life. The soldier by profession is a practical violator of this precept. But if we would enter into life we must keep the commandments.' Matt. 19:17.

"3. 'God has called us to peace'; and 'the weapons of our war fare are not carnal.' 1 Cor. 7:15; 2 Cor. 10:4. The gospel permits us to use no weapons but 'the sword of the Spirit.'

"4. Our kingdom is not of this world. Said Christ to Pilate, 'If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight.' John 18:36. This is most indisputable evidence that Christians have nothing to do with carnal instruments of war.

"5. We are commanded to love even our enemies. 'But I say unto you,' says the Saviour, 'Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you.' Matt. 5:44. Do we fulfill this command when we blow out their brains with revolvers, or sever their bodies with sabres? 'If any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his.' Rom. 8:9.

"6. Our work is the same as our Master's, who once said, 'The Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.' Luke 9:56. If God's Spirit sends us to save men, does not some other spirit send us to destroy them? Let us know what manner of spirit we are of.

"7. The New Testament command is, 'Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.' Matt. 5:39. That is, we had better turn the other cheek than to smite them back again. Could this scripture be obeyed on the battle field? "8. Christ said to Peter, as he struck the high priest's servant, 'Put up again thy sword.' Matt. 26:52. If the Saviour commanded the apostle to 'put up' the sword, certainly his followers have no right to take it. Then let those who are of the world fight, but as for us let us pray."


 
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skeptic7

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"can you help me understand, what makes a man want to kill another man"
"why is it that when a man kills another man in the heat of battle its considered heroic, but when a man kills another man in the heat of passion, its considered murder?"

I guess I would have to say at what point is killing justified? If someone is killing millions of jews for the hell of it(excuse the pun), could it not be that there has to be killing in order to stop the killing? Killing a man is never a good thing, but nor is letting millions die and doing nothing. Really its the better of two evils is the way i see it.
 
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Joe Orwell Fuss

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The way it was explained to me, the idea was not for Christians to be the aggressors. "Turn the other cheek" does not mean lay down and die! We, as Christians, have a responsibilty to our familes - carnal and spiritual. With that responsiblity comes providing basic comforts, and one of those comforts is a sense of safety. We are not the "door mats" of the world, there for everyone to walk on.
As Herev stated, there is no greater love than laying down ones life for another. Jesus did it for us, and he told us to love others as he loved us.
 
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Johnboy60

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When does the New Testament start when it comes to killing someone in Battle?
Jesus said to love your enemys and he say nothing about not loving your enemy in battle. How can you love your enemys and then turn around and kill your enemys?
The old testament said eye for an eye but when Jesus came the old Testament was done away with. Christians follow then New Testament.


Robert.
 
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12volt_man

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<>< said:
In The Review and Herald of March 7, 1865, the position of the SDA Church was set forth as follows:

Admittedly, I don't know all that much about Seventh Day Adventism but if the following is representative of their official stance, then I have to assume that they're pretty weak on the Bible.

1. They could not keep the Lord's holy Sabbath. 'The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shall not do any work.' Ex. 20:10. Fighting, as military men tell us, is the hardest kind of work; and the seventh day of all days would be the least regarded in the camp and field.

The Christian is no longer under such law and, for the church, Christ has become our Sabbath. Remember that we are told in the New Testament not to "esteem one day over another".

The sixth command of God's moral law reads, 'Thou shalt not kill.' To kill is to take life. The soldier by profession is a practical violator of this precept.

Actually, the command is, "thou shalt do no murder". Notice that the word translated murder here is ratsach and that we don't see this word applied anywhere in scripture to killing in battle, capital punishment or self defense.

'God has called us to peace'; and 'the weapons of our war fare are not carnal.' 1 Cor. 7:15; 2 Cor. 10:4.

This is referring to spiritual warfare and prayer, not defending one's country.

The gospel permits us to use no weapons but 'the sword of the Spirit.'

So then, was Jesus confused when He told His followers to go and buy swords to protect themselves on their missionary journey?

When Peter cut off the servant's ear, notice that Jesus didn't rebuke him for the act of violence, itself, but for his lousy timing and instructed Peter to put away his sword, not because his actions were wrong, but for his own safety.

Further, notice that Paul, in his letter to the Romans, tells us that God has ordained civil governments to "wield the sword" in order to enforce their laws and protect the innocent.

And all of this is not even to mention the scores of men in the OT who were soldiers and warriors (David comes to mind) who were called great men of faith by the Bible.

Our kingdom is not of this world. Said Christ to Pilate, 'If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight.' John 18:36. This is most indisputable evidence that Christians have nothing to do with carnal instruments of war.

Actually, it's not such evidence. Jesus was being charged with treason against the state. He is explaining that there is no evidence of insurrection on the part of His followers. This is no way can be considered to be a blanket condemnation of war.

We are commanded to love even our enemies. 'But I say unto you,' says the Saviour, 'Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you.' Matt. 5:44. Do we fulfill this command when we blow out their brains with revolvers, or sever their bodies with sabres? 'If any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his.' Rom. 8:9.

And we should love our enemies but remember that Jesus was speaking to His followers about how they should react on an individual level to persecution for the sake of the Gospel.

That is not the case here.

"6. Our work is the same as our Master's, who once said, 'The Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.' Luke 9:56. If God's Spirit sends us to save men, does not some other spirit send us to destroy them? Let us know what manner of spirit we are of.

Luke 9:56 here is taken so far out of context as to be rendered practically meaningless.

Even a cursory reading of this passage shows us that Jesus is not condemning warfare but rebuking James and John for demanding judgement that is solely the authority of God.

The New Testament command is, 'Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.' Matt. 5:39. That is, we had better turn the other cheek than to smite them back again. Could this scripture be obeyed on the battle field?

See #5.

Christ said to Peter, as he struck the high priest's servant, 'Put up again thy sword.' Matt. 26:52. If the Saviour commanded the apostle to 'put up' the sword, certainly his followers have no right to take it. Then let those who are of the world fight, but as for us let us pray."

Read that passage again. Nowhere in it does Jesus condemn or rebuke Peter for drawing his sword, only for attempting to stand between Jesus and the cross. Notice also that when Jesus tells Peter to put up his sword (which Jesus told him to buy in the first place!) it isn't a condemnation of Peter's actions, but out of concern for Peter's own safety.
 
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revrobor

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The Bible nowhere speaks against "killing". It forbids murder. And there is a difference between murder and killing on a battlefield. In war, if you don't kill your enemy he will kill you so it's a matter of self-defense. You might ask your friend to check with God regarding why He wiped out so many people (including women and children) who were not on a battlefield. Death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a person.
 
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Faith In God

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revrobor said:
The Bible nowhere speaks against "killing". It forbids murder. And there is a difference between murder and killing on a battlefield. In war, if you don't kill your enemy he will kill you so it's a matter of self-defense. You might ask your friend to check with God regarding why He wiped out so many people (including women and children) who were not on a battlefield. Death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a person.
Well, Israel was in close league and communication with God at that time. we don't live in that time anymore, and I don't think a Christian would be out in basic training being trained to kill people. Jesus certainly wouldn't. If you think He would (someone'll say it...) why? say in the bible.
 
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TSIBHOD

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Those who think that "killing" is okay, as opposed to murder, only need to answer one question here. How does killing your enemy show your love for him?

Jesus does not say, "Do unto others what they will do to you if you do not stop them."
Jesus says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
 
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Faith In God

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Zona said:
Since we're asking questions: How is passively allowing evil people to slaughter innocent people showing love?
who said anything about being passive? being passive is the same as condoning it (ie the ruler in Acts doing nothing when a mob beat a man) But doing the same thing to stop the situation is going against Christ's teaching
 
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