What exactly is the law?

[bugkiller]

So if a believer sins, do they need to even pay it any mind, to recognize it, to acknowledge any kind of requirement or obligation not to sin? Or what about those believers, referred to in scripture, that persist in serious sin, placing themselves in danger of being cut off? What's their responsibility in the matter? No need to have a consciousness of the law because the Spirit will either lead them to repentance-or not; the Spirit, rather than the Law, should chafe their consciences? OTOH, is this even a realistic scenario? Can anyone really escape consciousness of the Law anyway, and the indictment it brings against sin?

So are you being led by the Spirit or the law? How can one claim to be a follower of Jesus and really answer to the law? Which are you following?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So if a believer sins, do they need to even pay it any mind, to recognize it, to acknowledge any kind of requirement or obligation not to sin? Or what about those believers, referred to in scripture, that persist in serious sin, placing themselves in danger of being cut off? What's their responsibility in the matter? No need to have a consciousness of the law because the Spirit will either lead them to repentance-or not; the Spirit, rather than the Law, should chafe their consciences? OTOH, is this even a realistic scenario? Can anyone really escape consciousness of the Law anyway, and the indictment it brings against sin?

What is serious sin? I always thought all sin ws a serious matter. Maybe it is being suggested that we really do have permission to sin. I could never agree with that.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Being aware/cognizant of the Law and the facts of it's workings is one matter.

Unfortunately it is most often mishandled as much as grace.

Most 'legalists' are aware they remain sinners while sitting in the pew on Saturday. Why they believe themselves less the sinner for doing so remains suspect. Why they pin 'sin sin' on other believers for not seeing law matters like they do also remains suspect.

There is nothing wrong with being legal. Fact is however that no one is legal from a scriptural technical standpoint.

There is nothing wrong with grace. But not everything about us is under grace.

There are exemptions.

Therein resides the Divine Tensions.

s

Some followers of the law certianly think they are legal and just. If they follow the law and think otherwise they have thrown out all hope.

bugkiller

 

[Noxot]

God is the law. close the thread.

 

[squint]

Some followers of the law certianly think they are legal and just. If they follow the law and think otherwise they have thrown out all hope.

bugkiller

And most grace people here think their sin is all okey dokey.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Some followers of the law certianly think they are legal and just. If they follow the law and think otherwise they have thrown out all hope.

bugkiller

Not sure if you remember this post I had concerning where "THE Law" occurs in the Bible, but it is easier with the Hebrew than with the Greek, as the article is joined with the root word "Law".


http://www.christianforums.com/t7549230-42/#post57234334
Are you under THE law, Grace or both (2)

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Hi scratch.
One good thing about an interlinear, you can find where exact word forms of both the hebrew and greek are used in other places.

According to the ISA interlinear, when I clicked on the hebrew word for "the law", here is how many times it is used

http://www.scripture4all.org/

"The-Law" occurs 48 times in 47 verses.

First time used [the article for the word "the" is joined to the root word in the hebrew]. I will study on this more


Rotherham) Leviticus 7:37 This is the-law--for the ascending-sacrifice, for the meal-offering, and for the sin-bearer, and for the guilt-bearer,--and for the installation-offerings, and for the peace-offering:

Young) Leviticus 7:37 This [is] the law for burnt-offering, for present, and for sin-offering, and for guilt-offering, and for consecrations, and for a sacrifice of the peace-offerings,


Last time used:

NKJV) Zechariah 7:12 "Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the LORD of hosts.
​

.

 

[Habakk]

Got any specific Scripture you want to talk about? or have you already thrown out Romans?

bugkiller

BUT there was no throw out in Romans.

So I ask: Did God throw out his people? No! I myself am an Israelite from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God chose the Israelites to be his people before they were born, and he has not thrown his people out. Surely you know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he prayed to God against the people of Israel. "Lord," he said, "they have killed your prophets, and they have destroyed your altars. I am the only prophet left, and now they are trying to kill me, too." But what answer did God give Elijah? He said, "But I have left seven thousand people in Israel who have never bowed down before Baal."

 

[fhansen]

Got any specific Scripture you want to talk about? or have you already thrown out Romans?

bugkiller

There are plenty of verses that can serve to balance out the notion that a believer is totally exonerated from having a sense of obligation to obey, but that's not the question I was asking. I'm still trying to understand your-and other's-position regarding the nature of the law and it's role. Is the law sin? Does it reflect God's will for man or does it oppose man's nature? What, exactly, is it trying to teach us?

 

[bugkiller]

And most grace people here think their sin is all okey dokey.

I have not read a single post so stating.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

God is the law. close the thread.

God is a book?

it's called the book of the law in several passages.

 

[Frogster]

So if a believer sins, do they need to even pay it any mind, to recognize it, to acknowledge any kind of requirement or obligation not to sin? Or what about those believers, referred to in scripture, that persist in serious sin, placing themselves in danger of being cut off? What's their responsibility in the matter? No need to have a consciousness of the law because the Spirit will either lead them to repentance-or not; the Spirit, rather than the Law, should chafe their consciences? OTOH, is this even a realistic scenario? Can anyone really escape consciousness of the Law anyway, and the indictment it brings against sin?

i was pontificating on said text, offering sound hermeneutics, and a brief expository for u.

 

[bugkiller]

BUT there was no throw out in Romans.

So I ask: Did God throw out his people? No! I myself am an Israelite from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God chose the Israelites to be his people before they were born, and he has not thrown his people out. Surely you know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he prayed to God against the people of Israel. "Lord," he said, "they have killed your prophets, and they have destroyed your altars. I am the only prophet left, and now they are trying to kill me, too." But what answer did God give Elijah? He said, "But I have left seven thousand people in Israel who have never bowed down before Baal."

I remember something about until the time of the Gentiles...

It is impossible to be an Israelite through Abraham because he was not a descendant from Israel. Israel was and is a decendant from Abraham.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

BUT there was no throw out in Romans.

So I ask: Did God throw out his people? No! I myself am an Israelite from the family of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God chose the Israelites to be his people before they were born, and he has not thrown his people out. Surely you know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he prayed to God against the people of Israel. "Lord," he said, "they have killed your prophets, and they have destroyed your altars. I am the only prophet left, and now they are trying to kill me, too." But what answer did God give Elijah? He said, "But I have left seven thousand people in Israel who have never bowed down before Baal."

why does rom 9:8 cearly say, these are not the people of God, according to flesh, lineage, or race?

 

[squint]

I have not read a single post so stating.

bugkiller

The angle that several grace people here have bought and try to sell is that the LAW of God, the Word of God has been effectively eliminated.

That won't sell and shouldn't.

The Law is no different than Grace in being against all sin and evil, period.

Why any of you think that elimination is somehow 'the secret sauce' that makes your positions all come together is neither accurate or right. I would even term such views as borderline ridiculous and assuredly in conflict with the Words of Jesus.

No one who bothers to think about Jesus' Words really wants to come into conflict with Him.

Or do they?

Jesus said many things about The Word of God, uh, seeing how He Is The Word.

When any of you say 'throw away the Law, the Word of God' it is no different to me than to say throw away Jesus.

Does Not Compute.

Sorry.

s

 

[Habakk]

I remember something about until the time of the Gentiles...

It is impossible to be an Israelite through Abraham because he was not a descendant from Israel. Israel was and is a decendant from Abraham.

bugkiller

bugkiller

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (Luke 21:24).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

God is a book?

it's called the book of the law in several passages.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NKJV
"book of the law"
occurs in 27 verses in the NKJV, including 20 exact phrases shown first.

1st time used in Bible:

Deu 28:61 "Also every sickness and every plague, which [is] not written in this Book of the Law, will the LORD bring upon you until you are destroyed.

Used 1 time in NT of Bible:

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

.

 

[Frogster]

The angle that several grace people here have bought and try to sell is that the LAW of God, the Word of God has been effectively eliminated.

That won't sell and shouldn't.

The Law is no different than Grace in being against all sin and evil, period.

Why any of you think that elimination is somehow 'the secret sauce' that makes your positions all come together is neither accurate or right. I would even term such views as borderline ridiculous and assuredly in conflict with the Words of Jesus.

No one who bothers to think about Jesus' Words really wants to come into conflict with Him.

Or do they?

Jesus said many things about The Word of God, uh, seeing how He Is The Word.

When any of you say 'throw away the Law, the Word of God' it is no different to me than to say throw away Jesus.

Does Not Compute.

Sorry.

s

the law was temporary, UNTIL the date set by the father, gal 4:2, UNTIL christ, gal, 3:19..no longer under a tutor, 3;25

until...that is a chronolgical word.

got shrimp? the word says no shrimp...

 

[Frogster]

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NKJV
"book of the law"
occurs in 27 verses in the NKJV, including 20 exact phrases shown first.

1st time used in Bible:


Used 1 time in NT of Bible:











.

the book is in heb 9;19 too.



19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,

 

[Frogster]

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NKJV
"book of the law"
occurs in 27 verses in the NKJV, including 20 exact phrases shown first.

1st time used in Bible:


Used 1 time in NT of Bible:










.

first was..


ex 24:7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the hearing of the people.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Try to think like an SDA and then read this:

Hebrews 7:18-19 On the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (19) (for the law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
​

SDA's make commandment and law mean the ten commandments. They do it a lot. So let's do it too.

Hebrews 7:18-19 On the one hand, a former ten commandments is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (19) (for the ten commandments made nothing perfect); on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
​