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When God said "Do not eat" in the Garden, was that not Law?the point was, this was all pre law, the faith was pre law. Abe was imputed pre law, there was righteousness pre law.
it says abolished in his flesh..christians went to the cross with christ, we know the law will stand for the unsaved, rom 1-3, fine, paul said the law is not for the church, 1 tim 1, but for the unsaved, same critters listed in 1 tim 1, as rom 1, fine, but it says abolished in his flesh, for us.
we are not under law condemnation, law sin arousal, or law righteousness.
When God said "Do not eat" in the Garden, was that not Law?
Is it the law? If it is why is there not in injuction proclaiming such?When God said "Do not eat" in the Garden, was that not Law?
I see both Law and Gospel as eternal words of God. The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth. God's creative word "Let there be ..." is certainly a word of law that even calls things into existence that did not exist before.
The revealed Law, the Torah, did come at a certain time, but God's law has been written on the hearts of men since the beginning (Rom 2).
I don't understand you question, but God clearly enjoined them from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Is it the law? If it is why is there not in injuction proclaiming such?
bugkiller
As bugkiller says, you can distinguish between this law or that law, but its all still God's Law. I believe St. Paul is speaking specifically of the revealed law in these passages.well...even in rom 2;14, it says they don't have the law right in the text 2 times, and 2;12 says perish without the law, so we need not overpress that.
well...do ya agree there was righteousness pre law?
Abolished for righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Are you saying that the law no longer condemns sin?
'Credited to him' means that even though he was not truly righteous, he was considered righteous because God had granted him faith to believe His promises, and he believed.
Abe's righeousness was not actual, it was imputed.
OK I have used terms such as superceded which expresses to me the meaning of Jer 31:31-34. God says very clearly through Jeremiah the would be replaced and not like the one already made. Heb 8 says built on better promises not law (required performance). Now tell me what the effect of this is in reality for the Christian. Some seem to say there is no difference while Jeremiah says there is. Not according to has nothing to do with place or material on which something is recorded.The Law is how Christ earned righteousness for us. The righteousness of Christ rests upon the law, therefore the law has not been annulled or destroyed but fulfilled by Christ for those whom God has gifted with saving faith. The Law still stands to condemn those who are without faith in Christ.
Yes the righteousness that Christ has and imparts to me is er well was alien (not mine). That is not the present case however.The law of faith, or the law of Christ, is a rhetorical device employed by St. Paul in order to contrast the two kinds of righteousness - the righteousness we cannot earn under the Law versus the alien righteousness of Christ granted us freely by grace through faith. If you want to call the Gospel the law of Christ, so be it, but it is not a law for us to observe and obey but a law outlining the New Covenant God has made with us in Christ. We can no more earn righteousness through obedience to a new law than we can through the old law.
From what do you get this understanding? The law failed in this aspect.The first use of the law is to curb and restrain man's sinfulness. If God had not taught us the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and established worldly authorities to uphold the right and punish the wrong, life itself would soon falter and we humans, carried away by our sinful nature, would perish altogether.
I buy that.The second use of the law is to stand as a perfectly reflective mirror to make us see and acknowledge the depth of our sinfulness and our absolutely imperfect state. This Word of God judges, convicts, condemns and puts to death our old man, our fleshly sinful nature, Sin itself in us.
I guess you can claim being led by the law which brings death. I like being led by the Spirit which imparts life.The third use of the law teaches us and leads us to love God and love and serve our neighbor. The new man in Christ desires to live freely in accordance with God's perfect law even though we will constantly fail. The Law shows us what to do and what not to do in order to live in thankful, reverent obedience and how to live in repentance for the times that we do fail and sin against God and our neighbor.
Not what the Scripture says. Sorry.Abe's faith was credited to him as righteousness, because it led to obedience- of God's command! That's what James is referring to:
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,[e] and he was called Gods friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. James 2:20-24
Abe's righteousness was actual, not merely imputed.
I do not think he is. OTH does the Spirit promote sin? Gal 5:18Abolished for righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Are you saying that the law no longer condemns sin?
I think we agree on that point. So do you have righteousness? How is it aquired? by the law? or the same way Abraham got his? Remember Abraham did not have the law. Deut 5:3'Credited to him' means that even though he was not truly righteous, he was considered righteous because God had granted him faith to believe His promises, and he believed.
Abe's righeousness was not actual, it was imputed.
Considered righteous by whom? St. James is speaking of righteousness coram homnibus, not coram deo. Men can't see the righteousness given us by God, they can only see how it plays out in our lives. But even those without faith can appear to be righteous before men.
Sorry, what is this in reference to?But, then, what about all of the symbolism used in the Gospels concerning the blind whose eyes were opened and what not?
Now that hits the nail on the head.Righteousness is righteousness; we're either righteous or we're not, regardless of who's looking, or who's doing the "considering". The difference, as you say, is simply that man, who judges by appearances, can't be sure whereas God, who judges by the heart, can be.
Sorry, what is this in reference to?
Considered righteous by whom? St. James is speaking of righteousness coram homnibus, not coram deo. Men can't see the righteousness given us by God, they can only see how it plays out in our lives. But even those without faith can appear to be righteous before men.
Considered righteous by whom? St. James is speaking of righteousness coram homnibus, not coram deo. Men can't see the righteousness given us by God, they can only see how it plays out in our lives. But even those without faith can appear to be righteous before men.
Now that hits the nail on the head.
The truth seems to that we need to be righteous in the sight of men to be righteous in God's eyes. Maybe that is our whole problem.
bugkiller
But, then, what about all of the symbolism used in the Gospels concerning the blind whose eyes were opened and what not?
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