What effect does the rate of technological change have on our institutions?

Mustaphile

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I find that Jesus' teaching is less based on the specific period than the theology that was built up to explain it. In some ways I think the original Jewish context of Jesus' teaching is closer to us than the later Greek philosophical version.

Perhaps if you have had a conversation before on the forum around this subject I might read more about it.

I was watching the Rubin Report on YouTube last week and Ben Shapiro was talking about the idea of Christianity integrating the ideas of the Greeks with the Judaism. My ears pricked up at that point and I can see a little bit of that in the Logos spoken of in John.
 
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Tolworth John

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I would like to see more people coming together through a dialogue. I don't think we are advancing ourselves when we refrain from interacting with those who hold opposing views.

When it is clear that the views of the person I'm talking to are poles away from my views and that they are as unwilling to change those views as I am there is litle point in continued discussion.

When the heritical groups like JW and mormons come calling I am willing to talk, but my aim is always to raise a doubt in their minds and to tell them the Christian gospel, but I don't suggest they join my church in any joint activity.
 
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hedrick

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I was watching the Rubin Report on YouTube last week and Ben Shapiro was talking about the idea of Christianity integrating the ideas of the Greeks with the Judaism. My ears pricked up at that point and I can see a little bit of that in the Logos spoken of in John.
There are two periods when you could say that happened. The clearest one is 2nd Cent and later. That's when Christianity began to be described in Greek philosophical terms. That's what led to formulating the Trinity in philosophical terms like ousia and hypostasis.

As to the NT, I think the effect is smaller. Logos was used by Greek-speaking Jewish authors such as Philo. But the concept of preexistent wisdom can also be connected with the personified wisdom in the book of Proverbs. In my opinion any Greek influence in the NT came through Judaism.
 
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FireDragon76

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A question for you. Does the Truth ever change?
The follow on question is what is the truth?

Jesus said that he was the the Truth. He also said that he did not change.

What does that mean, to be truth as a person? I don't think it means what most evangelical Christians think it means.

Jesus didn't say he didn't change, the apostles said that. Jesus went from being a baby to an adult. That is change.
 
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FireDragon76

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The original question was technological change. I'm not convinced that technological change in itself has had serious effects. However cultural changes that are associated with them certainly have. Traditional Christianity in the US has assumed you're a member of a Church and attend regularly. People who don't are considered "Christmas and Easter Christians." This is relatively recent. Through most of US history, people were mostly Christian but also highly unchurched.

Changes in the last few decades have made it more and more difficult to convince even people who are Christians to come to church regularly. The Church simply isn't the center of our social lives anymore. These changes have hit liberal churches more than conservative ones. I suspect conservative Christians tend to live a more traditional life, as well as having more traditional beliefs. But it's affecting them as well.

One question I'm starting to propose to my church is whether it's feasible to have Christians that don't meet weekly, but who participate in specific activities that interest them, or whether people who don't are simply going to end up agnostics.

The issues in belief between conservative and liberal Christians don't seem to be directly based on technology, but more on the attitudes towards critical and scientific use of evidence. Of course technology resulted from this, so they're not unconnected.

I think it goes beyond theological issues to also approaches to culture in general.

People at my church are "traditional" in the sense they don't like change and they resist it. Theologically, they may be somewhat liberal by the standards of this forum, but that doesn't translate into the same degree of open-mindedness.
 
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Tolworth John

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What does that mean, to be truth as a person? I don't think it means what most evangelical Christians think it means.

Jesus didn't say he didn't change, the apostles said that. Jesus went from being a baby to an adult. That is change.

Then you do not know what is meant by Jesus being the truth.
Let me spell it out for you.
Jesus is the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity.
He became a human being born and having to grow to be an adualt he lived a perfect life.
He taught us about God and what God expects from us.
Jesus is the only way to get to God.

That is the 'TRUTH' It is a truth that will never change.

We have to accept him as our Lord and saviour and as Jesus said if we Love him, we will Obey him.

Hope this helps.
 
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FireDragon76

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Then you do not know what is meant by Jesus being the truth.
Let me spell it out for you.
Jesus is the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity.
He became a human being born and having to grow to be an adualt he lived a perfect life.
He taught us about God and what God expects from us.
Jesus is the only way to get to God.

That is the 'TRUTH' It is a truth that will never change.

We have to accept him as our Lord and saviour and as Jesus said if we Love him, we will Obey him.

I know that stuff but my question is rhetorical.

It's still not clear to me exactly what it means for a man to be Truth. Truth is usually thought of as a statement about the world that corresponds to reality. How can a person correspond to reality?
 
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Mustaphile

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People at my church are "traditional" in the sense they don't like change and they resist it. Theologically, they may be somewhat liberal by the standards of this forum, but that doesn't translate into the same degree of open-mindedness.

I watched an interesting video concerning the two hemispheres of the brain and the hypothesis that each hemisphere sees the world in a unique but opposing fashion. This dipolar nature of the brain puts the two hemispheres in competition to discern what is the nature of the world being perceived. This can play out in religion and politics, and the book they are discussing hypothesizes how Western culture has been defined by this hemispherical conflict (to simplify the argument).

The inflexibility of left brain constructs of the world is in conflict with right brain constructs of the world, which is a more open and exploring hemisphere. So these differences you see are potentially the result of which hemisphere of your brain is currently in charge of your perception of the world around you.

It is not to say that one is better than the other. They are simply performing the tasks that have given the whole person a selective advantage.

At half an hour in length it is a quick journey into a fascinating subject.

 
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Tolworth John

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I know that stuff but my question is rhetorical.

It's still not clear to me exactly what it means for a man to be Truth. Truth is usually thought of as a statement about the world that corresponds to reality. How can a person correspond to reality?

Which is why I repeated all that stuff that you say you know.

Jesus is Truth, oh not the truth about who cheated, or stole or who is the prettiest, but the ultimate truth of how we can be right with God.

Do you think there is anything more important that this?
 
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FireDragon76

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Which is why I repeated all that stuff that you say you know.

Jesus is Truth, oh not the truth about who cheated, or stole or who is the prettiest, but the ultimate truth of how we can be right with God.

Do you think there is anything more important that this?

It's just not clear to me when Jesus says "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life" in John's Gospel, how that translates into Fundamentalist beliefs about the Bible. Clearly, Jesus is speaking in an unusual, mystical manner about himself. He is not using "truth" in the sense we commonly understand it today.
 
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Tolworth John

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It's just not clear to me when Jesus says "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life" in John's Gospel, how that translates into Fundamentalist beliefs about the Bible. Clearly, Jesus is speaking in an unusual, mystical manner about himself. He is not using "truth" in the sense we commonly understand it today.

I don't think there is anything mystical about Jesus being the truth.
That he is the 2nd person of the trinity is fact. That he lived is fact. That he died and rose again is fact.
That we are saved by belief/trust in him is fact.

What you believe about thebible is up to you, what I would say is those who have searched the bible and checked it against historical fact support the claims of the bible.

If we want to know about God or to learn or experience God we have a way and that is to learn more about Jesus which we do from the bible.
 
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Tolworth John

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I think truth is encountered in life when we have open hearts and open minds and we care about other people just as Jesus did.

Open minds about what?

Societies views on sex? Sorry no.
Societies views on killing the unwanted? Soiry No
Societies views on religion? Sorry No.

Jesus is clear that the marriage of One man to one woman is the only way to have sex.
That the vunerable were to be protected, no abortion, infantcide or euthanasia and that religion has to conform to what he taught.
 
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FireDragon76

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Open minds about what?

Societies views on sex? Sorry no.
Societies views on killing the unwanted? Soiry No
Societies views on religion? Sorry No.

Jesus is clear that the marriage of One man to one woman is the only way to have sex.
That the vunerable were to be protected, no abortion, infantcide or euthanasia and that religion has to conform to what he taught.

If we don't have open minds, how else can we serve our neighbor?

Christians do not have a market cornered on morality and ways of human flourishing, and sin effects even the Christian in his estimation of his neighbor, making legalism and abuse a real danger if we dictate to others how to live. We should be genuinely open to the experience of other people, showing hospitality and compassion, just as Jesus did.
 
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Tolworth John

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If we don't have open minds, how else can we serve our neighbor?

Christians do not have a market cornered on morality and ways of human flourishing, and sin effects even the Christian in his estimation of his neighbor, making legalism and abuse a real danger if we dictate to others how to live. We should be genuinely open to the experience of other people, showing hospitality and compassion, just as Jesus did.
Sorry missed your reply.
We don't need minds that are open to ever fad or fashion to do with sex, murder and selfishness.

Have you never noted how Jesus dealt with sinners? He told them don't do it again. He imposed God's morality on those he helped.

Yes we are not to be legalistic, but neither are we to say that sin doesn't matter.

Remember sin and sinners are acts and people who are alienated fom God. There experiences are experiences of rejecting God, not of being afirmed by God.

Unless how we live is rooted in God we cannot begin to help others and ultimatly our help is to point them to Jesus.
 
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