What does worship have to do with science?

[Diamond72]

If you are a believer, either you think there is metaphor, or allegory,

If you look at this as a metaphor or allegory, no one seems to care what the length of a day is. The order of the events basically agrees with science. Although people may come up with something minor as to what came first the birds or fish and things like that. Science seems to have the order of events all figured out with the recent discovery of DNA.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If you look at this as a metaphor or allegory, no one seems to care what the length of a day is.

Just as I said.

The order of the events basically agrees with science.

Doesn't the earth exist (in day 1) before the Sun or other stars? That's very wrong. The Earth formed shortly after the Sun and other stars existed for ~9 billion years before either.

Although people may come up with something minor as to what came first the birds or fish and things like that. Science seems to have the order of events all figured out with the recent discovery of DNA.

Don't need DNA to get the cosmology wrong.

 

[Diamond72]

Don't need DNA to get the cosmology wrong.

Again, we are talking about cosmology, chemistry, thermodynamics, paleontology, archaeology, the high-energy physics of creation. It is easy for me to jump around, but I know that can be more difficult for others.

Doesn't the earth exist (in day 1) before the Sun or other stars? That's very wrong.

I look at the science first, then I look at the Bible for a PROBABLE & POSSIBLE explanation. From what my son tells me everything has to be qualified. We will look at what the chatbot has to say. Again, I thought you understood math. Everything has to be in context. Are we dealing with a set or a subset? What applies to one may not apply to the other.

In mathematics, statements can be classified as true or false based on whether they can be proven using logical reasoning and axioms. However, there are some statements in mathematics that cannot be proven or disproven, and these statements are said to be undecidable.

Therefore, when making statements in mathematics, it is important to qualify them as either true, false, or undecidable. Additionally, when dealing with real-world applications of mathematics, it is often necessary to consider the level of certainty or probability associated with a particular statement or calculation. Thus, it is also important to qualify mathematical statements as being possible or probable, depending on the context in which they are being used.

The point is there is an exact mathematical value to the Bible. This is what keeps us accurate. Two words with the same value are going to have similar or associated meanings. So we do not have to be helter-skelter willy-nilly. We can be very exact and ever precise in what we are doing.

 

[Diamond72]

Doesn't the earth exist (in day 1) before the Sun or other stars? That's very wrong. The Earth formed shortly after the Sun and other stars existed for ~9 billion years before either.

Yes, I am familiar with Sagan, PBS, and Cosmos. My wife's maiden name is actually Sagan. Although my son only has 3% middle Eastern in him.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Again, we are talking about cosmology, chemistry, thermodynamics, paleontology, archaeology, the high-energy physics of creation. \

Specifically, I challenged you notion that Gen 1 matched science and did so using only cosmology and astronomy and nothing else. That's why I said "I don't need DNA", because I don't to counter the Gen 1 cosmological claims.

It is easy for me to jump around, but I know that can be more difficult for others.

It's a difficulty you create for yourself in getting your point understood.

I look at the science first, then I look at the Bible for a PROBABLE & POSSIBLE explanation.

In science we just do the science and don't worry about what religious texts say. (I have some doubts about your procedural claims, but I'll let that go.)

From what my son tells me everything has to be qualified. We will look at what the chatbot has to say. Again, I thought you understood math. Everything has to be in context. Are we dealing with a set or a subset? What applies to one may not apply to the other.

[Pointless discussion of mathematics removed.]

 

[Diamond72]

That's why I said "I don't need DNA", because I don't to counter the Gen 1 cosmological claims.

There is no connection between DNA and cosmology. The first 10 verses may deal with cosmology, but lets look at Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." Notice the word SEED? What does a seed contain? DNA. Fruit cannot reproduce itself without a seed. This is why we have science. To help us understand our Bible and just how fruit reproduces itself through either natural or artificial selection. We see "artificial" selection in Genesis chapter two.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The difference between a wild and cultivated plant has to do with the seeds. For example, we pick corn before the seed falls off. But in nature, the seeds fall off and nature distributes them.

It's a difficulty you create for yourself in getting your point understood.

It can be difficult to say focused. That is why I did so many different things. Carpentry, drywall, electrical, plumbing, and so on. Remodeling and renovation. It was boring to do the same thing. I wanted to do something different every day. Also, people saved money by not having to hire more than one person or company to get the job done.

[Pointless discussion of mathematics removed.]

It becomes pointless because I am doing math that you were not able to do? If you can go ahead and do it and we will compare your results to mine. We are simply making a comparison between the number of Atoms in our body and the amount of information on the internet. You said not all atoms could be used and I showed they could be and in addition to that showed they could store 8 bits of information. Everyone, everywhere is going to have a different amount of atoms and a different amount of information for the internet. But we will still end up in the same ball park even if no two people can come up with the exact same number.

Of course, the only difference between a bit and a byte is one is past tense and the other is present tense.

According to Nielsen and Chuang's text. They mention that theoretically, it would be possible to store an infinite amount of information in the state of a single qubit. This could mean every atom in our body contains all the same information. Like every cell has all the information needed to reproduce itself.

Capable of storing 215 petabytes (215 million gigabytes) in a single gram of DNA, the system could, in principle, store every bit of datum ever recorded by humans.

The total amount of data ever recorded by humans is difficult to quantify, but estimates suggest that it is in the order of zettabytes (10^21 bytes) or even yottabytes (10^24 bytes). To put this in perspective, it is estimated that the entire internet contained approximately 44 zettabytes of data in 2020.

O(sqrt(10^21))

 

[Diamond72]

For those who do not want to read though all of that. This simply says: God is infinite. He can store an infinite about of information in an infinitely small amount of space. Using Quantum mechanics.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There is no connection between DNA and cosmology. The first 10 verses may deal with cosmology, but lets look at Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." Notice the word SEED? What does a seed contain? DNA. Fruit cannot reproduce itself without a seed. This is why we have science. To help us understand our Bible and just how fruit reproduces itself through either natural or artificial selection. We see "artificial" selection in Genesis chapter two.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


[Irrelevancies deleted]

I bolded the important part of your reply. As you clearly understand, DNA is not relevant to cosmology and astronomy. Cosmology and astronomy are ALL I NEED to demonstrate that Gen 1 DOES NOT match the scientifically determined history of the Universe. I don't need to discuss the biological claims or their timing because your claim about Gen 1 matching the results of science is already falsified by the cosmology.

 

[Diamond72]

Cosmology and astronomy are ALL I NEED to demonstrate that Gen 1 DOES NOT match the scientifically determined history of the Universe.

Go ahead and try to prove it then. Give it your best shot. You will just build a straw man and then falsify your own argument as to what the Bible says. Go ahead, make a false statement so you can prove yourself wrong.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Go ahead and try to prove it then. Give it your best shot. You will just build a straw man and then falsify your own argument as to what the Bible says. Go ahead, make a false statement so you can prove yourself wrong.

I already did all I need in post #82. Show me in Gen 1 where the Earth, Sun, and other stars appear in the correct order?

 

[Diamond72]

Doesn't the earth exist (in day 1) before the Sun or other stars?

There are not very many words here. We are talking about the "lights in the firmament". We already had a discussion about the physics of light. Light is filtered and light is reflected.

The quality of light on the moon is different from what we experience on Earth. This is because the moon has no atmosphere to scatter or filter the sunlight, and it also lacks an atmosphere to create the familiar blue sky we see on Earth.

On the moon's surface, the sky appears black and the sun appears as a bright white spot in the sky. The sunlight on the moon is much more intense than on Earth, and there are no clouds or other atmospheric features to diffuse the light, resulting in harsh shadows and bright highlights.

Additionally, the moon's surface is covered in a layer of fine, reflective dust called regolith, which reflects sunlight and creates a bright, almost blinding landscape. Astronauts who have visited the moon have reported that the light on the moon is very bright and intense, and that their eyes had to adjust to the stark contrast between light and shadow on the lunar surface.

Remember, I keep talking about how the sky is blue and the grass is green? The sky is blue because the light is filtered. The grass is green because the light is reflected. If you understood the laws of physics you would understand all of this. Perhaps you should read DeGasses book on astrophysics. He explains a lot of this in there.

Some people refer to this as the greenhouse effect. Oh, there is that word green again.

 

[Diamond72]

Gen 1 where the Earth, Sun, and other stars

You can pick a word in Genesis chapter one and spend the rest of your life doing nothing but a study of what that word means. I highly recommend DeGrasse's book on AstroPhysics, because he will give you a beginner course on these things that you can build on and go into more depth to learn about. Also Nahmanides (13th century Spain), is the most important of the commentators who deal with the spiritual physics of the universe, often referred to as Kabala. Schroeder likes to refer to Nahmanides because he was not influenced by modern science. Even 500 years ago at the time of Bishop Ussher they knew very little in science about what happened before Adam and Eve.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You can pick a word in Genesis chapter one and spend the rest of your life doing nothing but a study of what that word means. I highly recommend DeGrasse's book on AstroPhysics, because he will give you a beginner course on these things that you can build on and go into more depth to learn about. Also Nahmanides (13th century Spain), is the most important of the commentators who deal with the spiritual physics of the universe, often referred to as Kabala. Schroeder likes to refer to Nahmanides because he was not influenced by modern science. Even 500 years ago at the time of Bishop Ussher they knew very little in science about what happened before Adam and Eve.

Or you could just spend 2 minutes reading it, see that it isn't a description of the natural history of the Universe and Earth, and put it away forever.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There are not very many words here. We are talking about the "lights in the firmament".

Well, the "firmament" doesn't exist, so this isn't a good argument.

We already had a discussion about the physics of light. Light is filtered and light is reflected.

And none of what follows has a thing to do with the cosmology of either the scientific enterprise or the bible.

The quality of light on the moon is different from what we experience on Earth. This is because the moon has no atmosphere to scatter or filter the sunlight, and it also lacks an atmosphere to create the familiar blue sky we see on Earth.

On the moon's surface, the sky appears black and the sun appears as a bright white spot in the sky. The sunlight on the moon is much more intense than on Earth, and there are no clouds or other atmospheric features to diffuse the light, resulting in harsh shadows and bright highlights.

Additionally, the moon's surface is covered in a layer of fine, reflective dust called regolith, which reflects sunlight and creates a bright, almost blinding landscape. Astronauts who have visited the moon have reported that the light on the moon is very bright and intense, and that their eyes had to adjust to the stark contrast between light and shadow on the lunar surface.

Remember, I keep talking about how the sky is blue and the grass is green? The sky is blue because the light is filtered. The grass is green because the light is reflected. If you understood the laws of physics you would understand all of this. Perhaps you should read DeGasses book on astrophysics. He explains a lot of this in there.

Some people refer to this as the greenhouse effect. Oh, there is that word green again.

 

[Diamond72]

Well, the "firmament" doesn't exist,

That tells us a LOT about you. If you do not understand something, rather than to figure it out, you just claim it does not exist. Problem solved. Even though there is an infinite number of books that can be written and even though I have explained a little bit of it to you. You just climbed out of one cubby hole and into another for me. Reminds me of Pauls conversation with Festus: "Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad." Acts 26:24. There is no reason to be mad or angry, just be happy, be glad. REJOICE in the LORD.

And none of what follows has a thing to do with the cosmology of either the scientific enterprise or the bible.

We are not talking about cosmology we are talking about lights in the firmament. So now when I say the sky is blue. You says what sky, there is no sky, the sky does not exist. There is nothing to be blue about.

And none of what follows has a thing to do with the cosmology

I am ready anytime you are to talk about the cosmos. Let us look at what this is.

Neil deGrasse Tyson, an astrophysicist and science communicator, has provided several definitions of cosmology in his work. Here are a few of his definitions:

• "Cosmology is the scientific study of the universe and its origin, evolution, structure, and ultimate fate."
• "Cosmology is the scientific investigation of the structure, origin, and evolution of the universe as a whole."
• "Cosmology is the science of understanding the universe, where it came from, and where it's going."

In all of these definitions, cosmology is described as a scientific discipline that seeks to understand the nature of the universe as a whole, including its origins, evolution, structure, and fate. It involves the study of the physical laws that govern the universe, as well as the observations and measurements of its various components, such as galaxies, stars, dark matter, and dark energy.

 

[Diamond72]

Or you could just spend 2 minutes reading it

All of time and all of eternity can be studied and learned in 2 minutes? Good luck with that.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That tells us a LOT about you. If you do not understand something, rather than to figure it out, you just claim it does not exist. Problem solved. Even though there is an infinite number of books that can be written and even though I have explained a little bit of it to you. You just climbed out of one cubby hole and into another for me. Reminds me of Pauls conversation with Festus: "Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad." Acts 26:24. There is no reason to be mad or angry, just be happy, be glad. REJOICE in the LORD.

Quit trying to make this about me.

We are not talking about cosmology we are talking about lights in the firmament. So now when I say the sky is blue. You says what sky, there is no sky, the sky does not exist. There is nothing to be blue about.

If you claim this "firmament" exists, what exactly is it? And what are those "lights"?

(I ask because you seem to be rejecting the notion that the lights are the stars.)

 

[sjastro]

Remember, I keep talking about how the sky is blue and the grass is green? The sky is blue because the light is filtered. The grass is green because the light is reflected. If you understood the laws of physics you would understand all of this. Perhaps you should read DeGasses book on astrophysics. He explains a lot of this in there.

The sky is not blue because light is filtered, it is blue due to Rayleigh scattering.

​

On a more technical level.

Stop giving lectures to individuals on subjects where you and chatbot have zero understanding.

 

[Diamond72]

The sky is not blue

Congrats, you just flunked your preschool readiness test.

 

[Diamond72]

If you claim this "firmament" exists, what exactly is it?

The atmosphere. In Kabbah, the goal of spiritual practice is to elevate one's consciousness to higher levels of awareness and ultimately reach a state of unity with the Divine. The firmament, then, represents a spiritual challenge that must be overcome in order to reach this state of unity. The literal represents the divine.