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Featured What Does Universal Salvation Mean?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by AlexDTX, Jun 21, 2017.

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  1. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The courtesy of saying I no longer wish to discuss the matter is not a continuation of the conversation with those I was actually in the conversation with. This is the first comment I have seen from you, and I am continuing that courtesy by saying I am done with the conversation.
     
  2. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    No you weren't because you went on to make further comments, hence my confusion.

    That said yes it was the first you heard from me because I was following the discussion, people do that you know. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  3. martymonster

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    To be in the first resurrection is the prize. To be in the second is the outcome for all who are not in the first resurrection. All will be saved.
     
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  4. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    If we take the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus to be an account of the afterlife, the we must also accept what it says in that parable about people coming back from Hell to warn others.


    Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
    Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
     
  5. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some people would question if he had actually died. OTOH if it were the resurrected Jesus, and they could stick their hands into His side, or see Him suddenly appear in a room with closed doors, as doubting Thomas did, then they might believe:

    John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

    26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

    Compare also:

    Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    Luke 10:13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

    Will Tyre & Sidon be damned forever because they didn't get a chance to see what would have brought about their repentance?

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
  6. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Oh, I see that the original post that I was responding to wasn't quoted.
    I was replying to someone who was using NDEs from youtubers as proof that Hell is real.

    LOL! Your reply to my post was very confusing at first.
     
  7. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    So, according to Mathew 25:41, "Hell" was created for Satan and his minions.
    This however is quite problematic. Why would God do this?
     
  8. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God is love. His punishments are always corrective, remedial, for salvation:

    Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

    The word eternal/everlasting "αἰώνιος...lasting for an age...partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting... (also used of past time, or past and future as well) Derivation: from G165;" G166 αἰώνιος - Strong's Greek Lexicon

    Matthew 25:41 Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, 'Go from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers. (CLV)

    Online Parallel Study Bibles

    Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; (YLT)

    "Then will He say to those at His left, "'Begone from me, with the curse resting upon you, into the Fire of the Ages, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels. (WEY)

    Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
  9. RayJeena

    RayJeena Humble and proud of it. Supporter

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    And if the Lake of Fire is simply the presence of God, then it means that the devil and his minions get to stay in the same heavenly place as everyone who wants to be there. It's just torment for those who don't (yet) want to be there.
     
  10. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Do you have scripture which explicitly says this?
    Jeremiah 6:30
    (30) Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
    Romans 1:20
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    Romans 1:24
    (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Romans 1:26
    (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Romans 1:28
    (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    Matthew 5:20
    (20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    Matthew 7:21-23
    (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    (9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    Galatians 5:19-21
    (19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
     
  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    :( I'm late to this party (and it looks like everyone has gone home).....but I just read through most of the thread and just wanted to add this article, as it addresses a lot of the typical misunderstandings of Christian Universalism (just in case anyone is interested):


    What Universalism is NOT

    .....and, on a personal level: I actually believe it's offering a sort of false sense of security of righteousness to "preach the Gospel" that all a person needs to do is "just say this prayer" (giving the impression that treatment of others doesn't matter any longer since their "just punishment" will be avoided) and then never really emphasize the transforming power of God's love.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  12. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I sometimes remind people that God's justice involved (among other things) sending His Own Son down here to die for our benefit. Thus, God's sense of Justice is light-years beyond our own. To send Jesus and then damn some to Hell is both absurd, and a poor plan of salvation. Jesus stated that if He were lifted up, He would draw (some say "drag") all men to Himself.
     
  13. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For as long as they remain non-repentant "evil doers; adulterers, fornicators, etc ", they cannot, and will not enter the kingdom of God.

    Eventually all will be saved:

    Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

    1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's
    work of what sort it is.
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience, so that He may have mercy on all.


    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
     
  14. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where does Matthew 7:22-23 say "Depart from me and i will never love you anymore, but hate you with perfect hatred that has no end, as you deserve, as you roast alive in endless fires, being tormented for all eternity? I hate you so much that i wont even end your existence to mercifully put you out of your misery, but give you eternal life so i can cause you sorrow and pain without end." ?

    Actually His remarks seem pretty lame & light in comparison to what He could have said, if He wanted to.

    "Depart from Me". Big deal! Compared to ECT it's next to nothing.

    Mt.7:21 does not deny that all will eventually do God's will and enter the kingdom.

    Everyone starts out not doing God's will. Does that mean no one can enter the Kingdom of God and it will be empty forever?

    The verse places no time limits on when one can do the will of God.

    Matthew 7:23 refers to a "day", not final destiny when God will be "All in all" (1 Cor.15:22-28).

    Matthew 7 says some will not get into heaven on judgement day. It doesn't say they will never get into heaven. In fact they eventually will, as the same author wrote a few chapters earlier:

    Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.


    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
  15. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Do you have scripture which explicitly says this?
    1. Jeremiah 6:30
    (30) Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
    Romans 1:20
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    2. Romans 1:24
    (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    3. Romans 1:26
    (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Romans 1:28
    (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    4. Matthew 5:20
    (20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    5. Matthew 7:21-23
    (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    6. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    (9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    7. Galatians 5:19-21
    (19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Would you care to address the other scripture I quoted? There must be some way you can force them to support universalism? In 2 Cor 4:7-8 Paul tells us the meaning of aionios
    Matthew 25:46
    (46) And these shall go away into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionos] punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    2 Corinthians 4:17-18
    (17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, [παραυτίκα] worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
    (18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal[πρόσκαιρος]; but the things which are not seen are eternal.[αἰώνιος/aionios]

    παραυτίκα parautika
    From G3844 and a derivative of G846; at the very instant, that is, momentary: - but for a moment.

    πρόσκαιρος proskairos
    From G4314 and G2540; for the occasion only, that is, temporary: - dur- [eth] for awhile, endure for a time, for a season, temporal.
     
  16. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "The Complete Word Study Dictionary" (Spiros Zhodiates). Even it says the word aionion is "from aion, age" and includes the meanings of "perpetual, belonging to the aion, to time in its duration, constant, abiding". So like the vast majority of learned sources, it also agrees the word, & its noun, may refer to a duration which is of a limited time period that has an end. The real issue here, then, is whether or not the word means a limited time period in the context of Matthew 25:31-46 in regards to punishment. That is something that should be a matter of serious study rather than assumptions based on what my pastor or bible study group assumes to be the case.

    Considering the Greek word kolasis ("punishment", Mt.25:46, KJV) can refer to a corrective punishment, that should tell the reader of Matthew 25:46 what the possible duration of aionios ("everlasting", KJV) is & that it may refer to a finite punishment. Why? Because since it is corrective, it is with the purpose of bringing the person corrected to salvation. Oncce saved the person no longer has need of such a punishment & it ends. So it isn't "everlasting". [Or if it "everlasting", it is only everlasting in its positive effect]. Therefore this passage could just as easily support universalism as anything else.

    From a review of a book by Ilaria Ramelli, namely The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp):


    "...in a passage in Origen in which he speaks of “life after aionios life” (160). As a native speaker of Greek he does not see a contradiction in such phrasing; that is because aionios life does not mean “unending, eternal life,” but rather “life of the next age.” Likewise the Bible uses the word kolasis to describe the punishment of the age to come. Aristotle distinguished kolasis from timoria, the latter referring to punishment inflicted “in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction.” On the other hand, kolasis refers to correction, it “is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer” (quoted at 32). Thus Plato can affirm that it is good to be punished (to undergo kolasis), because in this way a person is made better (ibid.). This distinction survived even past the time of the writing of the New Testament, since Clement of Alexandria affirms that God does not timoreitai, punish for retribution, but he does kolazei, correct sinners (127)."
    Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena | Nemes | Journal of Analytic Theology

    "Augustine raised the argument that since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration in both cases.5 However, he failed to consider that the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when aionios referred to the duration of Jonah’s entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days. To a slave, aionios referred to his life span. To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood. To Solomon’s temple, it referred to 400 years. To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether."

    "Thus, the word cannot have a set value. It is a relative term and its duration depends upon that with which it is associated. It is similar to what “tall” is to height. The size of a tall building can be 300 feet, a tall man six feet, and a tall dog three feet. Black Beauty was a great horse, Abraham Lincoln a great man, and Yahweh the GREAT God. Though God is called “great,” the word “great” is neither eternal nor divine. The horse is still a horse. An adjective relates to the noun it modifies. In relation to God, “great” becomes GREAT only because of who and what God is. This silences the contention that aion must always mean forever because it modifies God. God is described as the God of Israel and the God of Abraham. This does not mean He is not the God of Gentiles, or the God of you and me. Though He is called the God of the “ages,” He nonetheless remains the God who transcends the ages."

    "In addition, Augustine’s reasoning does not hold up in light of Ro. 16:25, 26 and Hab. 3:6. Here, in both cases, the same word is used twice—with God and with something temporal. “In accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian, yet manifested now…according to the injunction of the eonian God” (Ro. 16:25, 26 CLT). An eonian secret revealed at some point cannot be eternal even though it is revealed by the eonian God. Eonian does not make God eternal, but God makes eonian eternal. “And the everlasting mountains were scattered.…His ways are everlasting” (Hab. 3:6). Mountains are not eternal, though they will last a very long time. God’s ways however, are eternal, because He is eternal."
    Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell
    http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

    Jude 7 speaks of the fire that destroyed Sodom as an example of "aionion fire" (the same words aionion fire used in Mt.25:41, compare v.46). Did Sodom burn forever?

    Philo was contemporary with Christ & we have this translation of his words which use the same words Christ used at Mt.25:46:

    "It is better absolutely never to make any promise at all than not to assist another willingly, for no blame attaches to the one, but great dislike on the part of those who are less powerful, and intense hatred and long enduring punishment [kolasis aiónios] from those who are more powerful, is the result of the other line of conduct." Philo: Appendix 2: Fragments

    In the year 544 A.D. the emperor Justinian wrote a letter:

    "It is conceded that the half-heathen emperor held to the idea of endless misery, for he proceeds not only to defend, but to define the doctrine.2 He does not merely say, "We believe in aionion kolasin," for that was just what Origen himself taught. Nor does he say "the word aionion has been misunderstood; it denotes endless duration," as he would have said, had there been such a disagreement. But, writing in Greek, with all the words of that abundant language from which to choose, he says: "The holy church of Christ teaches an endless aeonian (ateleutetos aionios) life to the righteous, and endless (ateleutetos) punishment to the wicked." If he supposed aionios denoted endless duration, he would not have added the stronger word to it. The fact that he qualified it by ateleutetos, demonstrated that as late as the sixth century the former word did not signify endless duration.
    Chapter 21 - Unsuccessful Attempts to Suppress Universalism

    If Christ meant "endless" punishment at Mt.25:46, why use the ambiguous aionios? Why not instead use the word aperantos ("endless"; 1 Timothy 1:4)? Or why not use the words "no end" as in Lk1:33b: "And of His kingdom there will be no end"? The answer seems obvious.

    Early Church Father universalists who were Greek scholars & many others of the time did not see Mt.25:46 contradicting their belief:

    "The first Christians, it will be seen, said in their creeds, "I believe in the æonian life;" later, they modified the phrase "æonian life," to "the life of the coming æon," showing that the phrases are equivalent. But not a word of endless punishment. "The life of the age to come" was the first Christian creed, and later, Origen himself (an Early Church Father universalist) declares his belief in æonian punishment, and in æonian life beyond. How, then, could æonian punishment have been regarded as endless?"
    Another Aionios Thread - These Things Go On Forever


    "Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?" "

    Chapter Nine

    As regards the fate of the Jewish people, early in the gospel of Saint Matthew Jesus' word does correct them re the false teachings of endless torments and annihilation, as follows:

    Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

    "Isn't it ironic that the passage most often used to support everlasting punishment is in fact one strongly opposing it when accurately understood?" (Tom Talbott, author of "The Inescapable Love of God").

    Thomas Talbott - Wikipedia
    Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition
     
  17. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    My point was, if the LOF was created for the Devil and his angels, then who Satan actually is is very important.
    The Scriptures don't leave us to speculate about who Satan is. Although, there is a lot of speculation that goes on.


    Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.


    1Ki 22:18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?
    1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
    1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
    1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
    1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
    1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.



    It doesn't really seem fair that God would sentence Satan to an eternity of fiery torture for merely doing what he was created to do.
    However, if you are given to believing old wives tales, you might believe that Satan was once a beautiful Angel who rebelled, etc, etc....
     
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  18. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    One of the things I found when reading critically thru the Bible was this: The Bible makes absolutely NO connection between Satan and Hell, not even in the KJV, which placed Satan in the LoF, but did not identify the LoF as Hell, though some today insist that it is. No connection between Satan and Hell - just let that sink in.
     
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  19. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    There seems to be a whole lot of conning going on with this source and a whole lot of universalists being conned. From Lexical Aids to the New Testament compiled and edited by Spiros Zodhiates ThD. 1991
    166 Aionios eternal, belonging to the aion (165) time in its duration, that is constant, abiding. Used when referring to eternal life, the life which is Gods and hence not affected by the limitations of time Aiodios specially predicated of the saving blessings of divine revelation. denoting not belonging to what is transitory Meanings (1) Having neither beginning nor end (Rom. 16:26, Héb. 9:14) (2) without end (Mar 25:41. 46: 2 Thess. 1:9) In Philemon 1 15. meaning forever. not only during the term of Ones natural life, but through endless ages of eternal life and blessedness (3) In Jude 1:7. Eternal fire refers to the miraculous fire from heaven which destroyed the cites of Sodom and Gormorrha. This is evidenced not only because the effect thereof shall be of equal duration with the world, but also because the burning of those cities is a dreadful emblem of that everlasting fire (Matt 25:41) which awaits the ungodly and unclean (cf. 2 Pet 2.6). (4) Chrónoi. times. aionioi. eternal means the ages of the world, the times since the beginning of the world’s existence (Rom. 16:25: 2 Tim 1:9, Titus 1:2, cf. Eph 1:4, 1 Pet 1:20)


     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  20. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Zodhiates reference to Jude 11 is incorrect. It should be Jude 7.

    Your own source of Spiros Zodhiates begins "Aionios eternal, belonging to the aion (165)...". That "belonging to the aion" includes finite durations that end is evident from Zodhiates comments on aion, that it signifies "time, short or long...".

    It seems you didn't include Zodhiates comments on the LXX which state: "In the Sept.: diathḗkē aiṓnios (G1242), testament, covenant, meaning eternal covenant (Gen 9:16; Gen 17:7)."

    Zodhiates ignores the many other Septuagint uses of aionios, including those which obviously refer to limited time periods.

    One of your own touted 9 sources, Vine, says aionios refers to duration, either unlimited or limited time periods that end. In fact this is the general consensus amongst scholars.
     
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