What does the Baptism of the Spirit look like today?

[topher694]

One of the biggest tricks of the enemy is to mask arrogance and bitterness with self-righteousness.

"I can be rude and judgmental because I'm standing on the truth"

The principles of God are not adversarial, you can't say you are operating in love by touting one aspect of love while violating another aspect of it. And if you are not in love, you are not in truth.

The fruit of this conversation speaks for itself: people healed and set free from addiction vs disrespecting people you disagree with and trashing on ministers who love the Lord because of google.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The only two instances recorded in Scripture where we find baptism with the Holy Spirit connected with them are those two cases as recorded in the 2nd and 10th chapters of the Acts.

As such I simply don't see how describing baptism with the Holy Spirit as an individual experience carries biblical weight.

We frequently see the Apostles lay on hands, and through this God acted to give the Holy Spirit (this is the basis for the historic Christian practice of Chrismation), but the laying on of hands is never called "baptism with the Holy Spirit". "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" is only mentioned in reference to the general outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost, and by way of a sign that the Gentiles were to be included in the ecclesiastical mission, on the household of Cornelius.

That is, baptism with the Holy Spirit is not an individual experience, or the individual receiving of the Spirit; it is rather the general outpouring of the Spirit which happened two thousand years ago on Pentecost. As such all who are joined to Christ and have Christ share in the blessings of the Holy Spirit who was poured out on all flesh as prophesied by the Prophet Joel when he wrote, "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh"; and spoken of by St. John the Baptist when he said, "the One who comes after me ... will baptize you with the Holy Spirit..."


-CryptoLutheran

This really centers around one's interpretation on Ephesians 4:5. Do you see the "one baptism" mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 as talking about water baptism or the baptism of the Holy Spirit? I believe it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I believe it is the receiving of the Holy Spirit as a gift. We are immersed in the Spirit (Which is a type and symbol of water baptism). We see Paul say things like, I come not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). So if water baptism was the "one baptism" that he talked about in Ephesians 4:5, it would appear that he would be contradicting himself.

I see the baptism of the Spirit as the receiving of the Spirit takes place normally when a person accepts Christ. Their bodies are to be temples of the Holy Spirit. We are not to grieve the Holy Spirit, as well. So this means the Spirit must reside in us. The receiving of the Spirit (and immersion like water) is the baptism of the Spirit.

Today, there does not need to be the workings of miraculous gifts (like the speaking of tongues, etc.) because the sign gifts were to authenticate the early church. But to say there is no immersion into the Spirit (i.e. the baptism of the Spirit) and that is not a personal experience is to suggest that the Spirit does not live in us. At least, that is how I see it. One faith, one Lord, one baptism... which is to be lived out through us.

For the whole heart of the Bible is about having a relationship with GOD.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

One of the biggest tricks of the enemy is to mask arrogance and bitterness with self-righteousness.

"I can be rude and judgmental because I'm standing on the truth"

The principles of God are not adversarial, you can't say you are operating in love by touting one aspect of love while violating another aspect of it. And if you are not in love, you are not in truth.

The fruit of this conversation speaks for itself: people healed and set free from addiction vs disrespecting people you disagree with and trashing on ministers who love the Lord because of google.

Correction does not mean one does not care or love the other person. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 talks about how all Scripture is profitable for correction, etc. Paul says we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather reprove them (Ephesians 5:11). For example: If I told an alcoholic to stop their drinking and driving (or they will harm themselves and others), it is not unloving for me to correct him in this way. It does not mean I do not love or care for them because I am trying to correct their bad behavior.

It is also possible that men can do good things, and also do bad things, as well. We can see unbelievers be nice to other people. So just because a person does loving and good things, does not mean they are of God. We have to look at everything they do. If they are also do something wrong, that is an indication that they are not of God.

Just look at the video on Bill Hamon I provided in my previous post to you. He claims to receive secret messages from angels. Do you believe that? He speaks in tongues without an interpreter. Do you believe that is biblical according to 1 Corinthians 14?

 

[topher694]

Again, you are not God to know my heart and life; And correction does not mean one does not care or love the other person. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 talks about how all Scripture is profitable for correction, etc. Paul says we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather reprove them (Ephesians 5:11). For example: If I told an alcoholic to stop their drinking and driving (or they will harm themselves and others), it is not unloving for me to correct him in this way. It does not mean I do not love or care for them because I am trying to correct their bad behavior.

It is also possible that men can do good things, and also do bad things, as well. We can see unbelievers be nice to other people. So just because a person does loving and good things, does not mean they are of God. We have to look at everything they do. If they are also do something wrong, that is an indication that they are not of God.

Just look at the video on Bill Hamon I provided in my previous post to you. He claims to receive secret messages from angels. Do you believe that? He speaks in tongues without an interpreter. Do you believe that is biblical according to 1 Corinthians 14?

Rude is rude, even in correction. I'm not examining your heart, I'm examining your fruit.

You display so little to zero understanding of what true biblical correction is.

You have little to zero understanding of what tongues is.

You have little to zero understanding of what prophecy is.

And I'm not wasting my time trying to teach you.

You put on the front of knowing so much about these things while having never actually having done them. Yet you are the expert when someone else does them wrong? Just another in a long line of self proclaimed experts in the "false" with no interest in the true

You say, why would some person you don't know on google lie about this, you take them at face value. But you don't do the same with me when I have more personal knowledge about it than any of them. Why? Probably because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You are not standing on the truth or anything close to it. And you don't understand a thing about biblical correction. If it happened to you you'd most likely run the other way and start calling the person correcting you "false" and other names.

Yep, my signature applies perfectly

 

[Francis Drake]

You must prove the Baptism came in another way besides the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Everything you say ignores this fact. And must adjust to it.

Nonsense.
That's no more valid than saying all water baptisms must be done in the river Jordan because that's where John started it.

Biblical history shows that the anointing of the Holy Spirit can be received and passed on.

1Kings19v15The LORD said to him, “Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus, and when you have arrived, you shall anoint Hazael king over Aram; 16and you shall anoint Jehu the son of Nimshi king over Israel; and you shall anoint Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah as prophet in your place.

In reality, Elijah neither anointed Hazael, nor Jehu, he only anointed Elisha.

Elisha passed that anointing on, and in Jehu's case, by yet another prophet!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Rude is rude, even in correction. I'm not examining your heart, I'm examining your fruit.

You display so little to zero understanding of what true biblical correction is.

You have little to zero understanding of what tongues is.

You have little to zero understanding of what prophecy is.

And I'm not wasting my time trying to teach you.

You put on the front of knowing so much about these things while having never actually having done them. Yet you are the expert when someone else does them wrong? Just another in a long line of self proclaimed experts in the "false" with no interest in the true

You say, why would some person you don't know on google lie about this, you take them at face value. But you don't do the same with me when I have more personal knowledge about it than any of them. Why? Probably because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You are not standing on the truth or anything close to it. And you don't understand a thing about biblical correction. If it happened to you you'd most likely run the other way and start calling the person correcting you "false" and other names.

Yep, my signature applies perfectly

What about Bill Hamon? Should we not discuss his YouTube video about how he received a secret message from an angel? Should we not talk about him? He spoke in tongues and yet there was no interpreter present (Which is a violation of 1 Corinthians 14).

Peace and blessings to you in the Lord today.

 

[topher694]

Why are you taking the focus off Bill Hamon? He is somebody you endorse. Should we not discuss his YouTube video about how he received a secret message from an angel. Should we not talk about him? He spoke in tongues and yet there was no interpreter present (Which is a violation of 1 Corinthians 14). I say this because any other claim you make towards me is just that. Your claim and opinion. This is not about me, but it is about the truth of what God's Word says. In any event, I say this all with love and with the hope that you may see where I am coming from one day.

Peace and blessings to you in the Lord today.

You clearly do not understand 1 Cor 14 or tongues one bit. I have been preaching on it for years. You are wrong in your understanding. But more importantly...

Why do you keep disrespecting me?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You clearly do not understand 1 Cor 14 or tongues one bit. I have been preaching on it for years. You are wrong in your understanding. But more importantly...

Why do you keep disrespecting me?

If you feel I disrespected you in some way, I apologize. I did edit my previous post to you, so as to take the focus off of you in asking my question. If it was another post, please let me know, and I will edit the post. My apologies. My goal is never to drag "the other person into the debate." It was not my intention to ever do that. My goal is to always set out to make it about the wrong belief and never the person. Sure, I sometimes lose sight of that. It's a rule on the forums that I am struggling with to obey. For that, my apologies. If I said something that was hurtful to you in some way. Again, no malice was in my heart towards you. I love you in Jesus Christ. Anyways, I think it is best we move on (Seeing you think I am being hurtful to you in some way, when that was never my true heart's intent).

Blessings to you in the Lord today;
And may your day be great in the Lord.

Sincerely,

~J.

 

[topher694]

If you feel I disrespected you in some way, I apologize. I did edit my previous post to you, so as to take the focus off of you in asking my question. If it was another post, please let me know, and I will edit the post. My apologies. My goal is never to drag "the other person into the debate." It was not my intention to ever do that. My goal is to always set out to make it about the wrong belief and never the person. Sure, I sometimes lose sight of that. It's a rule on the forums that I am struggling with to obey. For that, my apologies. If I said something that was hurtful to you in some way. Again, no malice was in my heart towards you. I love you in Jesus Christ. Anyways, I think it is best we move on (Seeing you think I am being hurtful to you in some way, when that was never my true heart's intent).

Blessings to you in the Lord today;
And may your day be great in the Lord.

Sincerely,

~J.

Accepted.

Blessings to you as well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Accepted.

Blessings to you as well.

Thanks. I also went back and re-edited my posts so as not to try and address you personally, but to stick the topic of the discussion of the belief instead, as well. I am really striving to not address people directly when it comes to talking about the actual belief. It is a challenge for me, but I am working on it.

Anyways, good day to you in the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is a difficult topic to understand. Ephesians 4:5 says there is one baptism. Yet, Hebrews 6:1 says there are doctrines of baptisms. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:17 he came not to baptize (water baptism), but Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism (water baptism) does not save for the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but it saves in us in the sense that we are answering the call in having a good conscience towards GOD.

So Paul appears to say that one kind of baptism is not important (water baptism). Yet, Peter says baptism (water baptism) is important but it is not for salvation involving sin. I believe it is possible that Peter was writing to Messianic Jews before Paul had stressed the importance that there is only one baptism (Spirit baptism by receiving Christ in many cases), and it is not in water baptism.

The disciples were clearly born again before the cross, and yet they received the Spirit after Christ had risen from the grave. So there is no clear and easy way to wrap one's head around this.

Men were water baptized even after the cross. There are also the events involving the Spirit at Pentecost, and the one with Cornelius and his family. Acts 19 suggests a change within baptism (From water baptism to Spirit baptism). This to me is a key part of Scripture. Water baptism (John's baptism) was not sufficient in this case, and a baptism by the Spirit in the name of Jesus was needed. The people did not even know there was a Holy Ghost. So Paul introduced these people to the Spirit.

As for the sign gifts: Well, I believe the miraculous signs surrounding the early church involving their baptism into the Spirit was to authenticate their message (as being from God) in forming God's Word (i.e. NT Scripture). Is water baptism necessary? That is a mystery to me. It appears there is no restriction in doing so. But Paul says he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel. To me, this is at the heart of what we are to do. We should preach the good news of salvation in Jesus to all. We should make disciples and teach them to obey the Lord's commands in the New Covenant (New Testament). We teach them to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We are to love God, and love others. That is the mission.

As for the gifts from the Spirit:
While I am not discounting their possibility in being genuine by some today, I feel like my focus is to preach the gospel, and teach others to obey the Lord. For me, that is one of the most important things we can do (via by only the working of God moving within us). Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul talked about how love is far superior in regards to the gifts (See 1 Corinthians 13). So while others may focus on the gifts, I will focus on how we are to love God and love others. That to me is the core of our walk and relationship with GOD is all about.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This really centers around one's interpretation on Ephesians 4:5. Do you see the "one baptism" mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 as talking about water baptism or the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

I see no reason to believe that St. Paul has anything else in mind other than baptism. When Scripture says "baptism" it means baptism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BCsenior]

I see the baptism of the Spirit as the receiving of the Spirit takes place normally when a person accepts Christ.

Please, brother, just do some more research.
Or, better yet, pray for understanding.
It's not a salvation issue ... but we do not want to hinder
any BACs from getting the maximum from the Lord, do we?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please, brother, just do some more research.
Or, better yet, pray for understanding.
It's not a salvation issue ... but we do not want to hinder
any BACs from getting the maximum from the Lord, do we?

I believe we each have our set of verses we believe is correct. But yes, I have prayed on this topic before and will continue to do so. I hope you do the same.

 

[BCsenior]

I believe we each have our set of verses we believe is correct.
But yes, I have prayed on this topic before and will continue to do so.
I hope you do the same.

Actually, brother, I know your heart is in the right place!
If you are OPEN to hearing the Truth, I see no reason why the Lord won't answer.

And I have absolutely NO need to pray about the Truth of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
E.G. When was the last time you saw a person get saved and spoke in tongues!
That's because they are 2 separate "receiving"s of the Holy Spirit.

Those BACs who haven't received it really have difficulty understanding it.
There are several other "somewhat hidden" spiritual Truths in the NT,
which usually require the Spirit to give revelation knowledge!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually, brother, I know your heart is in the right place!
If you are OPEN to hearing the Truth, I see no reason why the Lord won't answer.

And I have absolutely NO need to pray about the Truth of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
E.G. When was the last time you saw a person get saved and spoke in tongues!
That's because they are 2 separate "receiving"s of the Holy Spirit.

Those BACs who haven't received it really have difficulty understanding it.
There are several other "somewhat hidden" spiritual Truths in the NT,
which usually require the Spirit to give revelation knowledge!

I am more cautious in these last days. A certain set of believers really would have to be doing all things right according to the Word (both in doctrine and in living holy), and they would have to explain the verses really well on Partial Cessationism that I have. So far this has not happened yet. Most are unruly today and or they are tied in with some kind of false doctrine. I believe we are living in the last days, and there are few Christians out there who are doing things right (according to the Bible). Narrow is the way.

 

[AbbaLove]

The disciples were clearly born again before the cross, and yet they received the Spirit after Christ had risen from the grave.

There's no scripture that expressly states that the twelve disciples viewed Yeshua/Jesus as the physical manifestation of GOD Incarnate (LORD) or the Lamb of GOD before the cross, but instead referred to Him as a teacher, prophet and master. The Barna Group has unfortunately misrepresented the original meaning/intent of being "born again" (John 3:5-8 and 1 Peter 1:22-23) as representative of evangelical Christianity.

Many evangelicals mistakenly teach that those nine supernatural Giftings of His Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4-11) are no longer in operation today. So it's no mystery why the majority of Christians (evangelicals) have watered down the orginal meaning of "born again" (John 3:5-8). And in so doing have unknowingly corrupted the original intent of the Words of the LORD to His faithfilled servants (Luke 17:20-21).

Religious theology that teaches those supernatural Gifts of His Spirit have ceased (were/are no longer necessary) after the death of the last Apostle (i.e. John) is not only ill-founded, but proof that many evangelicals don't fully comprehend "born again" as a Spiritual revelation (John 3:8).

Acts 8:39
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.​

Such supernatural occurrences as well as the nine in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 are still in operation today. Many evangelicals scoff at such supernatural occurrences, even going so far as to say it's demonic (e.g. speaking in a prayer/worship language that's unknown to man). It makes no sense why the LORD would withhold His Spiritual Giftings from His anointed faithful servants. It also makes no sense that the LORD couldn't find any trustworthy faithful servants after the Apostle John. Deserving servants to which the LORD would give His supernatural Giftings even today, just as He gave to His first Apostles and even GOD-fearing faithful non-Jewish Believers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

​

There's no scripture that expressly states that the twelve disciples viewed Yeshua/Jesus as the physical manifestation of GOD Incarnate (LORD) or the Lamb of GOD before the cross, but instead referred to Him as a teacher, prophet and master. The Barna Group has unfortunately misrepresented the original meaning/intent of being "born again" (John 3:5-8 and 1 Peter 1:22-23) as representative of evangelical Christianity.

Many evangelicals mistakenly teach that those nine supernatural Giftings of His Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4-11) are no longer in operation today. So it's no mystery why the majority of Christians (evangelicals) have watered down the orginal meaning of "born again" (John 3:5-8). And in so doing have unknowingly corrupted the original intent of the Words of the LORD to His faithfilled servants (Luke 17:20-21).

Religious theology that teaches those supernatural Gifts of His Spirit have ceased (were/are no longer necessary) after the death of the last Apostle (i.e. John) is not only ill-founded, but proof that many evangelicals don't fully comprehend "born again" as a Spiritual revelation (John 3:8).

Acts 8:39
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.​

Such supernatural occurrences as well as the nine in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 are still in operation today. Many evangelicals scoff at such supernatural occurrences, even going so far as to say it's demonic (e.g. speaking in a prayer/worship language that's unknown to man). It makes no sense why the LORD would withhold His Spiritual Giftings from His anointed faithful servants. It also makes no sense that the LORD couldn't find any trustworthy faithful servants after the Apostle John. Deserving servants to which the LORD would give His supernatural Giftings even today, just as He gave to His first Apostles and even GOD-fearing faithful non-Jewish Believers.

You cannot post in this section of the forums if you deny that Jesus is God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see no reason to believe that St. Paul has anything else in mind other than baptism. When Scripture says "baptism" it means baptism.

-CryptoLutheran

In Ephesians 4:5, Paul was speaking in light of the one baptism that truly matters (Which is Spirit baptism). Water baptism is just a picture or symbol of the real deal (Which is Spirit baptism). If Paul was referring to water baptism in Ephesians 4:5, then it would appear to be contradictory to his other statement that said he came not to baptize in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Yet, we know Paul baptized in Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7. In fact, this baptism by Paul in Acts of the Apostles 19 suggests a Spirit baptism and not a water baptism because Paul laid his hands on certain disciples in the upper coasts of Ephesus, and they received the Holy Ghost as a result of it.

 

[AbbaLove]

You misinterpreted my prevous reply.

Every born again (non-denominational) Messianic believer (Jew and non-Jew) knows that Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Christ) is the physical manifestation of GOD Incarnate as well as the Lamb of GOD. This was not the case with the twelve Apostles before the cross. Before the cross the twelve disciples didn't even know/believe that Yeshua (the name the disciples called Him) was supernaturally conceived of a virgin via Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit). It was only after the cross and resurrection that the original eleven disciples were born again Spiritually with a circumcised heart to know that Yeshua, their teacher/master, was Lord and God ...

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"​