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Featured What does the Baptism of the Spirit look like today?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While there is no denying that the Holy Spirit baptism took place in Acts 2, and in Acts 10 with signs following, the question remains is: What does Baptism of the Spirit look like today?

    Have things changed?
    Can we see a change in Scripture?
     
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  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nothing changes inside a covenant until the covenant, itself, ends, like when Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, but up until He died, not a jot or a tittle would cease till all be fulfilled.

    Acts 2:38-39
    38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
     
  3. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    The Holy Spirit baptism took place in Acts 2:1-4, and in Acts 10:44-48 ...
    and don't forget Acts 4:31, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  4. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    error
     
  5. geiroffenberg

    geiroffenberg Well-Known Member

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    not all spirit baptisms in the bible looks like acts 2, but the main thing is the fruit of the spirit, even if the initial signs are not as pronounced. Fruit of the spirit being love etc. Id say the key is being filled and keep being filled, and grow in fruit. And i dont think thats different from acts. THeres a huge need for actually teaching on how to keep walking in the spirit, im my view the greatest lack in christianity today.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It looks like the spectacle you see on TV. Because it is not for today and all attempts to say it is are fraudulent.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While I am not claiming that you may not be right, I lean heavily towards the view that it is more likely that miraculous sign gifts have ceased. That said, I do believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit still happens today (But it is not what you may think it is). I believe the baptism of the Spirit today is the receiving of the Spirit (and the sign gifts do not have to be present to confirm this).

    Anyways,...

    First, to address your point on whether things can change within a covenant: Well, Jesus was making changes to the Old Law before the New Covenant went officially into effect with His death. Jesus said you have heard it said, eye for an eye, but I say unto you, turn the other cheek. Jesus said to not make any oaths at all (Whereas under the OT, you could make oaths), etc.

    Second, Tongues were for a sign that the Jews looked for. 1 Corinthians 1:22 says, “For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:” But Jesus says, “ An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;” (Matthew 12:39). God was making one last appeal (via the sign gifts) to the Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah on a national level.

    Three, the three greatest prophets and miracle workers in the Bible are Moses, Elijah, and Jesus. We see that the miracles that they performed were a way to authenticate them as a messenger from GOD and the Word of God that they provided (that would be immortalized into Scripture). We notice that after each of these prophets, there was a time of silence where no miracles were done. Just like with the prophets Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, miracles authenticated the apostles' message as from God. "And they (apostles) went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs (tongues, prophecies, healing, etc.) following. Amen." Mark 16:20.

    Four, we can see that after the book of Acts, the gifts no longer operated in Paul’s life like they once had. The sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, the gift of healing, etc. were operating all through the Book of Acts, and these gifts are mentioned in the letters that Paul wrote during the Acts period. But when we turn to the letters written after the Book of Acts—the 4 Prison Epistles, and the 3 Pastoral Epistles, we find that the sign gifts either aren’t mentioned at all or we see—as with the gift of healing—that they were no longer operating in Paul’s life. What he could do in Acts of the Apostles 28, he could no longer do in Philippians, or in 1 and 2 Timothy. He could heal all the sick on the island in Acts of the Apostles 28:9, but he couldn’t heal any of his closest co-workers—Timothy, Epaphroditus, Trophimus—after the close of the Book of Acts (See this article here for the full explanation).

    Five, while God can heal people directly Himself today, the gift of miracles is not given to any one believer that we know today. No Charismatic can always heal. Yet, the Bible says that they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. This means 100% recovery all the time. No one can do this today, as the apostles could in Acts of the Apostles 5:12-16. "By the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people.....they (believers) brought forth the sick into the streets.....and they were healed every one". (Acts of the Apostles 5:16).

    Six, New revelation (prophecy) or new words from God are not to be added (Revelation 22:18-19). If a person were to add to God’s Word, the plagues that are within the book known as the Bible (not the plagues in Revelation) would be added to them. We have occurrences of this actually happening. See these two links here: Bible Correctors lose Voice Bible Corrector Loses Voice on Ankerberg Show.

    Seven, I believe the "best miracles" or the "greater works than these" is God helping the believer to overcome grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hating, etc.) in their life, and with them leading others to the Lord and helping them to follow Him (in the same way). While I could be wrong, I believe the baptism of the Spirit today is solely about transformation.

    May God bless you today.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While I don't want to say that everyone who operates by gifts today is in error (because I don't want to speak against God if I am wrong), I do lean towards the belief that the miraculous sign gifts have ceased (based on many verses in Scripture).

    I believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit of today is merely the receiving of the Spirit now (with no visual miraculous sign gifts). This generally happens when a person is born again spiritually. Before the cross, I believe the disciples hearts were regenerated in the heart by the Spirit, but the Spirit did not live in them yet. However, John the Baptist had the Spirit since birth. I believe Romans 6:3-6 talks of the baptism of the Spirit and not water baptism. I didn't always believe that about Romans 6, either. It took time for God to show me that.

    I believe the function of the Spirit for the church today is to help with Sanctification. The Spirit can help believers today in overcoming grievous sin (like lying, hating, lusting, theft, etc.).
     
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  9. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    If your view is not based on Scripture,
    and not based on personal experience,
    why offer your view at all?
    Is it a wild guess?
     
  10. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    A few weeks ago we prayed for someone with Lupus. A few days later, medically confirmed 100% healed.

    A little over month ago I unknowingly called someone by name in a prophetic word (first time visitor). The word described his situation exactly and gave him the encouragement he needed to walk away from drugs and alcohol and not look back. He remains sober and very on fire for Jesus today.

    That, is a small sample of what it looks like today.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Faith heals today. The prophetic gifts do not exist today. But God does give us gut feelings about certain situations.
     
  12. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for today.

    Denying isn't faith.

    It is the same as it was in the beginning because God is the same yesterday today and forever.

    Prophesy is for today. Renaming or redefining it doesn't change that.

    Bitterness, anger, ridicule, pride and fear are so very active today... Thank goodness we have the baptism of the Holy Spirit to help set people free from junk like that.

    Constant arguing over something that one doesn't prescribe to is a sign of bondage not wisdom.

    Cake should be for every day, not just special occasions.
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am not convinced in such a way. My faith is in God’s Word. I am convinced by Scripture. That is where the battle for this truth rests - IMO.
     
  14. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Well since such things are completely in line with scripture we're good.

    Plus the original question was about what it looked like today. So I gave today examples.
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What makes you think you have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, I am not convinced by miracles alone that are done today. When I say my faith is in God's Word, I am referring to the Bible as my ultimate authority. While I could be wrong, the Bible appears to tell me that the miraculous gifts given to the apostles have ceased. Now, does not mean that God cannot do miracles? No. It merely means that the miraculous gifts given to the early apostles given by the Spirit appears to no longer be in operation today.

    First, the three greatest prophets and miracle workers in the Bible are Moses, Elijah, and Jesus. We see that the miracles that they performed were a way to authenticate them as a messenger from GOD and the Word of God that they provided (that would be immortalized into Scripture). We notice that after each of these prophets, there was a time of silence where no miracles were done. Just like with the prophets Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, miracles authenticated the apostles' message as from God. "And they (apostles) went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs (tongues, prophecies, healing, etc.) following. Amen." Mark 16:20.

    Second, we can see that after the book of Acts, the gifts no longer operated in Paul’s life like they once had. The sign gifts, tongues, prophecy, the gift of healing, etc. were operating all through the Book of Acts, and these gifts are mentioned in the letters that Paul wrote during the Acts period. But when we turn to the letters written after the Book of Acts—the 4 Prison Epistles, and the 3 Pastoral Epistles, we find that the sign gifts either aren’t mentioned at all or we see—as with the gift of healing—that they were no longer operating in Paul’s life. What he could do in Acts of the Apostles 28, he could no longer do in Philippians, or in 1 and 2 Timothy. He could heal all the sick on the island in Acts of the Apostles 28:9, but he couldn’t heal any of his closest co-workers—Timothy, Epaphroditus, Trophimus—after the close of the Book of Acts (See this article here for the full explanation).

    Three, while God can heal people directly Himself today, the gift of miracles is not given to any one believer that we know today. No Charismatic can always heal. Yet, the Bible says that they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. This means 100% recovery all the time. No one can do this today, as the apostles could in Acts of the Apostles 5:12-16. "By the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people.....they (believers) brought forth the sick into the streets.....and they were healed every one". (Acts of the Apostles 5:16).

    Four, New revelation (prophecy) or new words from God are not to be added (Revelation 22:18-19). If a person were to add to God’s Word, the plagues that are within the book known as the Bible (not the plagues in Revelation) would be added to them. We have occurrences of this actually happening. See these two links here: Bible Correctors lose Voice Bible Corrector Loses Voice on Ankerberg Show.

    Five, is your church following the rules of 1 Corinthians 14?

    "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret."
    (1 Corinthians 14:27).

    "They must speak one at a time,"
    (1 Corinthians 14:27) (NLT).

    "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church;"
    (1 Corinthians 14:28).​

    #1. Does your church speak in tongues only by 2 or 3 at most?
    #2. Do those who speak in tongues each speak individually in turn and not all at the same time?
    #3. If there is no interpreter, do those who speak in tongues keep silent?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  17. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    You asked what it looked like, not for ultimate proof. The things the 2 I mentioned experienced were proof enough for them. But, for skeptics history has shown that no "proof" will ever be good enough unless it happens directly to them.

    There are so many scriptural holes in what you presented its really not worth getting into, especially condidering you don't appear open to considering it, just eager to debate it... Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but it doesn't seem that way on my end... However, I will say this one thing. We cannot take one instance and make that into doctrine, especially when faith and healing are involved. Jesus Himself was limited in His ability to heal and perform miracles in His hometown. Does that mean the "gifts" He carried had diminished or ceased? Hardly.

    Here is the fascinating thing to me, at the end of the day, I've given 2 awesome testimonies of God healing an autoimmune disease and setting someone free from addiction, yet the initial response of Cessationists or those that lean toward it is not to celebrate and give glory to God, but to doubt it happened or debate the manner in which it happened. How very sad.

    Further, if you were to take just that idea of skeptism and debating God healing someone (as in the above paragraph) and compare it to the Gospels what do you find? And, how does Jesus react in those situations? (hint: Jesus was not pleased).

    This is the point of the thread I created earlier. The heart and fruit behind denying the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not glorifying to God. It is not in line with the gospels or the character and nature of Jesus.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you teach the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is for today when scripture says it is not, you violate the same principles you hold others to.
     
  19. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    If anyone teaches that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not for today when scriptue says it is, they are violating the same principles they hold others to. And probably mean and obsessive as they do so.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Essentially, yes, their purpose having been accomplished.

    We know that God can gift anyone with special powers, at any time, if it suits his purpose. But other than that...they ceased.
     
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