What does Scripture Mean About Perfection?

[JacksBratt]

Actually, the true imputation of Jesus Christ's sacrifice is 1 John 1:7.

It says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

We see something similar in Romans 8:1,

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).


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Exactly... there is "now" no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. (who is in Christ Jesus?.. the saved) (what is "no condemnation? no punishment.) ( it says nothing about being sinless)

"Now" that I have the free gift of salvation...and... walk not after flesh but after spirit.....I will not be condemned. That means... If I seek God's will, to be like Christ....no condemnation will find me. Even when I still sin.

This means that I cannot just accept Christ and still go about my old ways.... like it's a pass to continue sinning. No.... I must repent and my desires change. I desire to be like Christ. That is the part that says "walk not after the flesh"

Nowhere does it say.... does not sin. It says those who walk after the spirit... desire to be like Christ.

 

[JacksBratt]

And that is not the Bible.
It is his own words of pure imagination.

I quoted two verses that completely undoes this type of wrong thinking.


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Actually, salvation by works, living a sinless life, coming to a point where you no longer sin... THAT is not in the bible.

Let me put it clearer... any Christian, or otherwise, that stands up and says "I have reached a point where I no longer sin" is a liar and lying is a sin......

“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1).

 

[JacksBratt]

And that is not the Bible.
It is his own words of pure imagination.

I quoted two verses that completely undoes this type of wrong thinking.


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1 John 1:8King James Version (KJV)

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Teaching that we can live sinless is a lie from Satan.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Not all sin is the same. 1 John 5:16-17 is very clear on this.
Jesus even says there is a greater sin (John 19:11).
Matthew 12:32 says that speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, neither in this life (this Earth) or the one to come (i.e. the Millennium).

For one, Peter essentially says baptism is not a command, that if broken, is a salvation issue (See 1 Peter 3:21). Also, I hightly doubt that going above the speed limit a little is the same as say the sin of murder to God. There are degrees of sin for God. For Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law (like: love, justice, faith, and mercy), and they should have ignored tithing cummin, etc. and done these things instead.


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Now this is wrong. God is black and white when it comes to sin, it is either a sin or not a sin. Hence why breaking one part of the law makes one guilty of breaking all of the law.

God doesn't rate sin. However there are natural reprecussions of sin that can lead to problems in us spiritually.

Why you would use the Pharisee's as an example after Matt 23 is beyond me. Way to go off the ledge.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, salvation by works, living a sinless life, coming to a point where you no longer sin... THAT is not in the bible.

Let me put it clearer... any Christian, or otherwise, that stands up and says "I have reached a point where I no longer sin" is a liar and lying is a sin......

“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1).

Really, love is the goal not lack of sin.

Jesus told us the two commands that He left us with that fulfill all the law and the prophets. And they weren't don't sin. Although it is important, concentrating on sin is working backwards from satans perspective not Gods

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Exactly... there is "now" no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. (who is in Christ Jesus?.. the saved) (what is "no condemnation? no punishment.) ( it says nothing about being sinless)

No. You skipped over the highlighed words within that post. It says who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:10).

"Now" that I have the free gift of salvation...and... walk not after flesh but after spirit.....I will not be condemned. That means... If I seek God's will, to be like Christ....no condemnation will find me. Even when I still sin.

No, Your not reading it right. Romans 8 says,

12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:12-13).

This is said to the reader who is a believer. It says if you live after the flesh, ye shall die. Seeing all men die whether they live after the flesh or not, this is obviously talking about "spiritual death."

This means that I cannot just accept Christ and still go about my old ways.... like it's a pass to continue sinning. No.... I must repent and my desires change. I desire to be like Christ. That is the part that says "walk not after the flesh"

But what about the occasions when you do sin? Are you walking after the Spirit or after the flesh?

Nowhere does it say.... does not sin. It says those who walk after the spirit... desire to be like Christ.

You cannot walk after the flesh and also walk after the Spirit. It is either one or the other.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Actually, salvation by works, living a sinless life, coming to a point where you no longer sin... THAT is not in the bible.

Then you have not read the verses properly in the "Original Post." Please go back and read them please.
What I am saying is address at least 2-3 of them.

Let me put it clearer... any Christian, or otherwise, that stands up and says "I have reached a point where I no longer sin" is a liar and lying is a sin......

Because of your odd interpretation on 1 John 1:8, right?
It is not saying that you will always be in sin or you are a liar. That is non sense.
If that was the case, then we would have a contradiction in the BIble. For 1 John 2:4 says he that says he knows Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:8 is written to those who deny sin in some way. It is like the Eternal Security proponent who says that they have no sin in regards to being punished because they have a belief on Jesus. They say only the Father sees the blood of Christ on them because of their belief alone on Jesus. But this is a denial of the penalty of sin. It is why 1 John 1:8 says if we say we have no sin, we are a liar and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8 is saying if we say we have no sin (when we do sin), we are a liar and the truth is not in us.

The proper solution to dealing with sin is confession as given to us in 1 John 1:9.
For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1).

Yes, I am not denying Christians cannot sin. But John also tells us to do what? To: "sin not." (1 John 2:1).
Christians in time will mature and overcome their sin with the Lord working in them. All glory goes to Jesus. Jesus does not get the glory if you sin and think you are saved by having a belief on Him because Jesus (God) cannot agree with sin because He is holy and pure and just.


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[Sola1517]

No, Your not reading it right.

Who are you to say that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 John 1:8King James Version (KJV)

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Teaching that we can live sinless is a lie from Satan.

Does not 1 John 1:8 say that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves?

Answer: Well, what is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at it's immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 moves verse 8 (which is present tense) into a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned at some point in their life (Regardless of whether they are an OSAS believer or a Conditional Salvationist). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin,
we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for it all by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Who are you to say that?

An echo from Scripture.

"...Who do you think you are?" (John 8:53) (NIV).

To know fully what is going on here, please read John 8 and pay close attention to verse 47 (John 8:47), verse 31 (John 8:31), verse 37 (John 8:37).


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[Sola1517]

An echo from Scripture.

"...Who do you think you are?" (John 8:53).

To know fully what is going on here, please read John 8 and pay close attention to verse 47 (John 8:47), verse 31 (John 8:31), verse 37 (John 8:37).


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Somebody really has some self esteem. Amazing self esteem in fact.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Somebody really has some self esteem. Amazing self esteem in fact.

Thank you for the insult.
I will rejoice in God my Savior.


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[Sola1517]

Thank you for the insult.
I will rejoice in God my Savior.


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You equate yourself with Jesus based on?...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Alright. I am taking a break here folks.

I may be back later.

May God bless you all; And may the Lord's love and peace be upon you.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You equate yourself with Jesus based on?...

I never said that.
I am just saying your words sound similar to what Scripture says.
Then I gave a lesson in Scripture for you to learn from by reading 3 verses.
You can either read the verses or you can continue to insult me.
The choice is yours.
But please realize that doing is good is something that is of God;
And doing the wrong thing is not of God.


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[Sola1517]

I never said that.
I am just saying your words sound similar to what Scripture says.
Then I gave a lesson in Scripture for you to learn from by reading 3 verses.


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I don't trust your interpretation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay. Taking a break here.
I will try and be back later.

Peace, love, and all manner of goodness from the Lord Jesus be unto you all.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I don't trust your interpretation.

So reading the verses automatically equates with seeing things from my interpretation?
It is Scripture.
It is not going to bite you.
Well, God's Word does have a way of piercing the heart.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Alright now. I really need to leave and take a break.

Peace be unto you all in the Lord.


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[Sola1517]

Done with him.