What does keeping the Sabbath mean?

[tzadik]

How do you arrive at your conclusion to the passage you quoted?

bugkiller

What conclusion?

 

[bugkiller]

Crib, this thread isn't about what SDA teach remember, it's about what the sabbath means ​

Does requiring the observance of the sabbath to possess and maintain salvation about the meaning of the sabbath? I think so.

bugkiller

 

[Jenna]

The Sabbath is the 7th day. We count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Shabbat. So, knowing when it is isn't terribly complicated. People have been counting to 7 for thousands of years.

God made the 7th day holy (set-apart for His purpose), and He desires that we do the same. How do we do that? He tells us to not work. It sounds simple enough, except that we, as a people, are so focused on providing for our flesh. He even goes so far as to tell us not to use the day to prepare for working the next day. (It does rather defeat the whole purpose of NOT working, to be consumed with thinking about working. )

Instead of toiling, we have a time to rest. We have an example in our Messiah that it is good to do GOOD things on the Sabbath. We can come together as the Assembly to study the scriptures, lift one another up, pray, heal, cast out demons, etc. etc. This setting aside the day as a day of rest, putting aside what our flesh desires to do with the day (for example- the no buying and selling. We aren't going out to breakfast on the Sabbath. ) , this is what makes the day set-apart - what makes it HOLY. This, we should do out of love for our God, and a desire to do what he says. <3

 

[bugkiller]

What makes #4 a legalistic law and not a moral law?

Fortunately, the "Jews" opinion isn't the one that counts. The only thing that matters is what God said.

You add to my point beautifully. Can you explain how keeping commandments 1-3 and 5-10 is any less a work of the flesh, than keeping commandment 4?

Would you agree with someone who said that you don't have to honor your parents or your marital vows and can still be saved? Would you be putting your faith in the act of honoring your parents or the act of faithfulness? My faith is in Jesus, you can be certain of that. I simply disagree that one can take a commandment that Christ carved in stone with another 9, and toss it away like so much garbage.

Please explain how ceremony and ritualism are moral issues.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

Does requiring the observance of the sabbath to possess and maintain salvation about the meaning of the sabbath? I think so.

bugkiller

Sadly what you think isn't what matters if what you think is wrong. You have a cursory understanding, at best, of what Adventists teach.

 

[Stryder06]

Please explain how ceremony and ritualism are moral issues.

bugkiller

The 4th commandment isn't a ceremony, nor is it a ritual.

 

[tzadik]

The Sabbath is the 7th day. We count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Shabbat. So, knowing when it is isn't terribly complicated. People have been counting to 7 for thousands of years.

God made the 7th day holy (set-apart for His purpose), and He desires that we do the same. How do we do that? He tells us to not work. It sounds simple enough, except that we, as a people, are so focused on providing for our flesh. He even goes so far as to tell us not to use the day to prepare for working the next day. (It does rather defeat the whole purpose of NOT working, to be consumed with thinking about working. )

Instead of toiling, we have a time to rest. We have an example in our Messiah that it is good to do GOOD things on the Sabbath. We can come together as the Assembly to study the scriptures, lift one another up, pray, heal, cast out demons, etc. etc. This setting aside the day as a day of rest, putting aside what our flesh desires to do with the day (for example- the no buying and selling. We aren't going out to breakfast on the Sabbath. ) , this is what makes the day set-apart - what makes it HOLY. This, we should do out of love for our God, and a desire to do what he says. <3

Amen sister!

I could never understand why some think the seventh day was determined through, anything else besides simply counting to 7!

God Bless!

 

[Jenna]

Where, in the scriptures, do we have the laws of God broken into categories of what is ceremonial and what is moral? Isn't all of the law of God- the LAW OF GOD? Shouldn't we desire do to all that he says to do, that we are able to do?

Just a thought....

 

[tzadik]

Please explain how ceremony and ritualism are moral issues.

bugkiller

I could give you countless examples, but let's start with just one.

First question:
Do you believe that sanctifying, hallowing vs. profaning God's Holy Name is a moral issue?
I assume you would correctly reply yes.

Second question:
Do you believe that sanctifying, hallowing vs. profaning God's Holy day is a moral issue? [Is 56:2, 6]
...

 

[Cribstyl]

No spinning necessary.
So now that we can agree that God set the seventh day apart for a special purpose. My next question is, for what purpose did God set the seventh day apart?

My answer will follow your answer to my question about if God rested on the 14th, 21sr or every seventh day.

 

[bugkiller]

The misuse of the sabbath by man is not God's fault, nor does it change the actual sabbath and it's commandment. So again, what makes the 4th commandment a legalistic commandment and not a moral one?

So who changed it Stryder? Did man do this for God or did did God do (cause to happen) this as He promised through the prophets?

I think you missed the point of my question. Perhaps if I ask it like this: how is it that one is looking to the sabbath commandment for salvation, simply because they believe it ought to be upheld, but someone who believes that the 5th commandment, for example, ought to be upheld, is living by faith?

Come again? Your statement does not accurately reflect my question to you. I'm not talking about someone who has dishonored their parents, for I'm certain we are all guilty of that crime. I'm talking about someone who flat out does not believe they ought to honor their parents yet they say they are a Christian. What's the difference? Is it confidence in your flesh that would have you say that they are wrong and that they ought to honor their parents, as the commandment says?

Is there a difference in believing the 5th is to be upheld because of the commandment and say someone who does this and is not a Christian, Jew or otherwise follow the law? Paul deals with this in Romans 1-3. You would have nonchristians, even athiests observing the law. Please explain how that works.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Would you be able to show me anywhere in Scripture where God requires adherence to the 4th commandment 'for salvation'?

That's news to me.

I am interested. I am also interested because this comes from soeone who promotes the law as a rquirement for Christians.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

My answer will follow your answer to my question about if God rested on the 14th, 21sr or every seventh day.

Scripture doesn't tell us ANYWHERE else that God rested any other days.

Not sure what you're trying to prove by that "non-mention."

All we've got is God resting and setting the example of resting on the very first seventh day, and subsequently sanctifying the first 7th day for a specific purpose.

~
Messiah tells us that the Sabbath was created for man

have you EVER kept even one Sabbath? If you have you'd understand what Messiah meant with the Sabbath was created for man! The 7th day is by far the most amazing day of the week (to me and many I know)!

 

[bugkiller]

What?

Never in my life did I ever state that ANYONE MUST obey certain commandments in order to merit salvation!

What I do believe the Scriptures are clear in...is that all of God's children obey God's rules.

No ifs and buts about it.

Messiah takes it a step further when He says, only those who do the Father's will enter into the Kingdom.

This is also what Paul taught in Romans 2:13. Those who are justified will DO the Torah of God, and not simply "hear" it.

But the problem is there are no such people according to the OT Scripture. Thus there can be no salvation according to what I read from you. This is on topic because the sabbath is included in the covenant law only where the sabbath is required. The sabbath is optional in the new covenant.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

I am interested. I am also interested because this comes from soeone who promotes the law as a rquirement for Christians.

bugkiller

The lingo many of you use...like "requirement", and "obligation" are quite interesting, considering you love to use it only when it comes to commandments you don't particularly keep.

If I were to ask you if "honoring your parents" is a requirement for Christians, would you say yes?

What about "not committing adultery", what would you say to that?

Or perhaps "not using the Father's name in vain" is a requirement for Christians. Would you agree?

Or what about "not having or serving any other god, besides Elohim", is that a requirement for Christians?

 

[bugkiller]

What?

Never in my life did I ever state that ANYONE MUST obey certain commandments in order to merit salvation!

What I do believe the Scriptures are clear in...is that all of God's children obey God's rules.

No ifs and buts about it.

Messiah takes it a step further when He says, only those who do the Father's will enter into the Kingdom.

This is also what Paul taught in Romans 2:13. Those who are justified will DO the Torah of God, and not simply "hear" it.

Please explain what the difference is from your stated opinion.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

But the problem is there are no such people according to the OT Scripture.

There are no such people as what in the “OT”?

Thus there can be no salvation according to what I read from you.

You’re gonna have to be more clear. I have no idea what you’re referring to.

This is on topic because the sabbath is included in the covenant law only where the sabbath is required. The sabbath is optional in the new covenant.

I would LOVE for you to show me in Jeremiah 31 where it tells us that “MY TORAH (LAW)” that will be written on the hearts, is different from “MY TORAH (LAW)” that is the perfect, holy, righteous, true and spiritual Law of God…

 

[Jenna]

I am just confused as to how a person can hate the Torah, but love the God who gave it to him and told him. I don't mean that as any kind of attack, but just an expression of my confusion. If you love God, shouldn't a person desire to do all that God says to do? I think that this is the entire crux of the conversation, really.

So, people ask- does keeping the Sabbath save you?

Is that any difference than saying- does being baptized save you?

It is the shed blood of our Messiah, paying the CURSE of breaking the law (death) for us, that covers our sins. Does this mean then that we keep on sinning?! How much love do we have for God, that we see what unbelievably amazing things that he has done for us, and yet we refuse to even just obey the guidelines and instructions that he lays out for us? If a person has that mindset in their heart, that they don't care at all for what pleases God- it does call to question whether they have a saving faith. It isn't for any of us to decide, but only God. Still, it is a question that each of us has to answer, in the quiet moments. How can I love God, and search for any and every loophole to get out of his guidelines and instructions for living?

He gives us the Torah because it causes us to be a set-apart (holy) people to Him. It is GOOD for us. If we are still trying to find ways to get rid of it, then we're trying to serve two masters- and that just doesn't work. Each person needs to choose who they will serve.

 

[weathered]

I am just confused as to how a person can hate the Torah, but love the God who gave it to him and told him. I don't mean that as any kind of attack, but just an expression of my confusion. If you love God, shouldn't a person desire to do all that God says to do? I think that this is the entire crux of the conversation, really.

I once felt the same way as you do and still do but my perspective has changed. I surely dont think anyone should hate the Torah, that's not good in my opinion. Im not sure what everyone here believes but some are not always saying what they believe about obeying Gods will because they have an idea that it condemns or something which i don't agree with necessarily, they also believe that we are free from the law and i do agree with that. We are not free from submitting to Gods will though. Some see Gods will in the things the apostles teach us but they don't see it in Law because the law contains over 600 laws and that is what we have liberty from in my opinion. And Gentiles were never given those 600 laws anyway, the apostles gave them a set of rules though that teach what Gods will is, such as abstaining from sexual immorality, covetous idolatry, pride and dishonesty. Also many think that we must obey from the heart and not from the letter, its true that we must obey from the heart, but i think the only way to do this is by abiding in the Lord and the only way to do that is submitting to Gods will. We cant hope to abide in Christ without first repenting and acknowledging our sinful heart and abstaining from things of the flesh that i mentioned already.

 

[weathered]

And sometimes we struggle to overcome things, but we cant give up, we press forward and pray and try and that's also part of abiding in Him in my personal opinion. God searches our heart, he knows whether we are trying to obey or just making excuses. Again this is only my fallible personal opinion. Im not a qualified teacher, im just here trying to be helpful and learn myself.