What does keeping the Sabbath mean?

[Stryder06]

Okay well look at the commandments... honoring your parents, not lying and those commandments, specifically 5-10, are all moral laws, dealing with morality. Whereas the only law that would be considered a legalistic law would be the 4th. The first 3 have to do with your relationship with the Lord specifically, even though they are tied to all the others.

What makes #4 a legalistic law and not a moral law?

Jews would tell others if they did not keep the Sabbath they were not in the covenant relationship. The Sabbath being the 7th day. That is the very definition of legalism, I must do this and this and this in order to be saved. Refering to acts of the flesh of course.

Fortunately, the "Jews" opinion isn't the one that counts. The only thing that matters is what God said.

Now the 5-10 commandments should be expected of all people to be kept. Jews and Gentiles alike. Everyone should respect their parents, not kill, steal, lie, covet, or commit adultery, would you agree? Whereas Gentiles did not keep that 7th day law. Yet Paul in Romans 2 says that when the Gentiles who did not have the Law still kept the law by how they lived, their uncircumsion (of the flesh) became circumcision (of the heart). God would count them as righteous because Abraham himself did not have the law, but he had faith in God and it was counted to Him as righteousness. Abraham did not worship God on the Sabbath day. Abraham worshiped all the time.

You add to my point beautifully. Can you explain how keeping commandments 1-3 and 5-10 is any less a work of the flesh, than keeping commandment 4?

To say you don't agree with those who don't worship on the Sabbath is saying you place your hope of salvation on the day and not the means, and the means is Jesus and His blood. As I said, I don't have a problem with those who worship on the Sabbath, so long as they don't place their hope of eternal life in them keeping the Sabbath day, because we are not saved by works of righteousness, but only by His grace.

Would you agree with someone who said that you don't have to honor your parents or your marital vows and can still be saved? Would you be putting your faith in the act of honoring your parents or the act of faithfulness? My faith is in Jesus, you can be certain of that. I simply disagree that one can take a commandment that Christ carved in stone with another 9, and toss it away like so much garbage.

 

[Stryder06]

Your point was to discuss other issues because what you believe dont line up with simple bible questions. I metioned your doctrines to expose your truths are not according to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
man up

Like I said, this thread isn't about what the sabbath means. It's about what Adventist teach.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Like I said, this thread isn't about what the sabbath means. It's about what Adventist teach.

The OP didn't mention just Adventists [or MJs]

I want to know the answer to the title question.

I also wnat to know how this is arrived at according to Scripture.

I am sure I will have questions for the responses.

Thank you kindly for your answers.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

Your comment and question are stunts to twist the scripture. God's rest is not a sabbath.

lol.
Don't get scared man. I asked a simple question.
What does it mean when Scripture says that God sanctified the seventh day?






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fyi I find it funny that you are trying to say that God's Sabbath, is not a Sabbath, as even you have admitted that the word Sabbath = rest.

God's rest is not a rest???

 

[ByTheSpirit]

What makes #4 a legalistic law and not a moral law?



Fortunately, the "Jews" opinion isn't the one that counts. The only thing that matters is what God said.



You add to my point beautifully. Can you explain how keeping commandments 1-3 and 5-10 is any less a work of the flesh, than keeping commandment 4?




Would you agree with someone who said that you don't have to honor your parents or your marital vows and can still be saved? Would you be putting your faith in the act of honoring your parents or the act of faithfulness? My faith is in Jesus, you can be certain of that. I simply disagree that one can take a commandment that Christ carved in stone with another 9, and toss it away like so much garbage.

What makes the 4th commandment a legalistic law was the Jewish practice of you must observe the day and do no work on it. As I stated, they taught as do several Christian denoms that we must worship and be work free on the 7th day in order to be saved (in the covenant). That is not the definition of faith by grace, but faith in works.

I would not agree that someone who dishonors their parents can not be saved. We have all committed sin and all sin is equal in God's eyes, because sin is breaking God's Law (1 John 3:4) and if we break even just one law we are guilty of all (James 2:10). Read Revelation 21:8, in that list liars are sent to hell, and lying is considered a very tame violation of God's law to most. So everyone can be saved and just because you are saved doesn't make you perfect, we can not be perfect while in this body. That's why 1 John 1:8-2:2 says if we say we have no sin we are liars and the truth isn't in us, but if we confess our sins we will be forgiven because Jesus, our payment for sin, is at God's right hand as our advocate.

The difference between someone like yourself who says, we must observe the Sabbath and believe in Jesus to be saved, and someone else who has dishonored their parents but yet believes in Jesus is that they only place their salvation on their faith in Jesus, while you add to it. That is not faith, that is works.

To answer your 3rd point of keeping the commandments 1-3 and 5-10 and the 4th, my first post here will suffice, if you don't agree with me then that's your thing, but I have explained to you the truth.

 

[Stryder06]

What makes the 4th commandment a legalistic law was the Jewish practice of you must observe the day and do no work on it. As I stated, they taught as do several Christian denoms that we must worship and be work free on the 7th day in order to be saved (in the covenant). That is not the definition of faith by grace, but faith in works.

The misuse of the sabbath by man is not God's fault, nor does it change the actual sabbath and it's commandment. So again, what makes the 4th commandment a legalistic commandment and not a moral one?

I would not agree that someone who dishonors their parents can not be saved. We have all committed sin and all sin is equal in God's eyes, because sin is breaking God's Law (1 John 3:4) and if we break even just one law we are guilty of all (James 2:10). Read Revelation 21:8, in that list liars are sent to hell, and lying is considered a very tame violation of God's law to most. So everyone can be saved and just because you are saved doesn't make you perfect, we can not be perfect while in this body. That's why 1 John 1:8-2:2 says if we say we have no sin we are liars and the truth isn't in us, but if we confess our sins we will be forgiven because Jesus, our payment for sin, is at God's right hand as our advocate.

I think you missed the point of my question. Perhaps if I ask it like this: how is it that one is looking to the sabbath commandment for salvation, simply because they believe it ought to be upheld, but someone who believes that the 5th commandment, for example, ought to be upheld, is living by faith?

The difference between someone like yourself who says, we must observe the Sabbath and believe in Jesus to be saved, and someone else who has dishonored their parents but yet believes in Jesus is that they only place their salvation on their faith in Jesus, while you add to it. That is not faith, that is works.

Come again? Your statement does not accurately reflect my question to you. I'm not talking about someone who has dishonored their parents, for I'm certain we are all guilty of that crime. I'm talking about someone who flat out does not believe they ought to honor their parents yet they say they are a Christian. What's the difference? Is it confidence in your flesh that would have you say that they are wrong and that they ought to honor their parents, as the commandment says?

 

[tzadik]

What makes the 4th commandment a legalistic law was the Jewish practice of you must observe the day and do no work on it. As I stated, they taught as do several Christian denoms that we must worship and be work free on the 7th day in order to be saved (in the covenant). That is not the definition of faith by grace, but faith in works.

Would you be able to show me anywhere in Scripture where God requires adherence to the 4th commandment 'for salvation'?

That's news to me.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Would you be able to show me anywhere in Scripture where God requires adherence to the 4th commandment 'for salvation'?

That's news to me.

I've encountered many SDA, Jews, who taught that, and tried telling me that. You all must be missing my statement when I tell you that if you worship on the Sabbath that's not a problem, but if you try to tell people you must worship on the sabbath to be saved, then that is a problem.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 2:4-9
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions —it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Salvation is not by works, not by Sabbath keeping, but by God's grace through our faith in Jesus.

Let me ask you this:

Do you think that a person must honor their father or mother to be saved, like you believe we must obey the Sabbath?

Or what about a person must not covet?

Do you believe that if someone does not obey those things they can never be saved?

 

[tzadik]

I've encountered many SDA, Jews, who taught that, and tried telling me that. You all must be missing my statement when I tell you that if you worship on the Sabbath that's not a problem, but if you try to tell people you must worship on the sabbath to be saved, then that is a problem.

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 2:4-9
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions —it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Salvation is not by works, not by Sabbath keeping, but by God's grace through our faith in Jesus.

Let me ask you this:

Do you think that a person must honor their father or mother to be saved, like you believe we must obey the Sabbath?

Or what about a person must not covet?

Do you believe that if someone does not obey those things they can never be saved?

What?

Never in my life did I ever state that ANYONE MUST obey certain commandments in order to merit salvation!

What I do believe the Scriptures are clear in...is that all of God's children obey God's rules.

No ifs and buts about it.

Messiah takes it a step further when He says, only those who do the Father's will enter into the Kingdom.

This is also what Paul taught in Romans 2:13. Those who are justified will DO the Torah of God, and not simply "hear" it.

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib, this thread isn't about what SDA teach remember, it's about what the sabbath means ​

And your answers is??? I'm following your lead and talking arround the issues.

 

[Cribstyl]

lol.
Don't get scared man. I asked a simple question.
What does it mean when Scripture says that God sanctified the seventh day?

Posting scripture and misrepresenting what is said is serious business. What the scripture said and meant is that God's seventh day is "set apart". It did not say the 14th day, 21, 28, or every seventh day.
Why? God was finished....no more days to speak of.

The fact is, the place of God's rest is the heavens where His throne is. The earth is God's footstool.




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fyi I find it funny that you are trying to say that God's Sabbath, is not a Sabbath, as even you have admitted that the word Sabbath = rest.

God's rest is not a rest???

You're hard of hearing. The word rest is a verb. No time is directly implied. The word sabbath means "day of rest". Yes... sabbath is resting for a day, but resting is not necessarily always a day long. Are you saying that God rested on the 7th, 14th and 21st day?
Pardon me for saying with the scripture, that God rested on the seventh day.

 

[tzadik]

Posting scripture and misrepresenting what is said is serious business. What the scripture said and meant is that God's seventh day is "set apart". It did not say the 14th day, 21, 28, or every seventh day.
Why? God was finished....no more days to speak of.

The fact is, the place of God's rest is the heavens where His throne is. The earth is God's footstool.

Once again you fail to answer my question.

Do you know what it means for God to sanctify the seventh day?

Do you know what sanctifying means? To speed things along, I'll help you out. Sanctifying means setting something apart for a special purpose.

So what does it mean for God to set the seventh day apart for a special purpose?
For what special purpose did God set the Seventh day apart?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Once again you fail to answer my question.

Do you know what it means for God to sanctify the seventh day?

Do you know what sanctifying means? To speed things along, I'll help you out. Sanctifying means setting something apart for a special purpose.

Good question

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652989/
Protestant views of justification / sanctifying grace

Hi. I am a recent convert to Roman Catholicism (from evangelical Protestant roots), and since my conversion I've become very interested in theology. I never had much of a theological foundation before -- the church of my youth taught very little in the way of doctrine -- so I am now trying to grasp theological concepts from both Catholic and Protestant points of view.

Catholic sources generally describe the Protestant view of justification in terms of "covering up" sin, but not actually removing it or wiping it out -- as opposed to the Catholic view, in which through the Sacraments, God's grace effectually washes away and obliterates the stain of sin. I am trying to figure out if this understanding of "covering up but not removing" is actually consistent with Protestant thought. I know a lot of evangelical hymnody talks about the washing away of sins by the blood of Jesus (these are some of my favorites): e.g., "What can wash away my sins? / Nothing but the Blood of Jesus." How is this concept described in Protestant theology? Is there any theological tradition that would speak in those terms more than others?

There is a quote from Luther often cited among Catholics critiquing this Protestant view of "covering up," but I've never been able to find the original context in Luther, just the Catholic repetition of it, so I'm not sure how to understand it. Luther is said to have said that Jesus, in justifying sinners, "throws a white sheet" (or a cloak) over the festering mass of their sins, covering their shame before God -- but that when we go before God, we are still wretched sinners underneath the sheet. Can anybody show me where he said that? I know Luther described the Christian as "simul justus et peccator."

In short, and more basically: As a Protestant, do you believe that God's grace actually removes your sins, or only covers your guilt?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Cribstyl]

Once again you fail to answer my question.

Do you know what it means for God to sanctify the seventh day?

Do you know what sanctifying means? To speed things along, I'll help you out. Sanctifying means setting something apart for a special purpose.

So what does it mean for God to set the seventh day apart for a special purpose?
For what special purpose did God set the Seventh day apart?

I said in my response, it means 'set apart'. Do you have a problem with that?
The rest of your commentary is spin..

Have you considered answering whether God rested on the 14th, 21st....???

 

[weathered]

Sanctification and holiness. Are they the same? When we are told to follow holiness does this mean that we follow the Lord but not things that God has said are holy? Can we follow the Lord without living according to what God says is Holy? Does living a holy lifestyle by abstaining from worldliness mean that we are Holy? Or does it mean we are following holiness?

 

[Cribstyl]

Sanctification and holiness. Are they the same? When we are told to follow holiness does this mean that we follow the Lord but not things that God has said are holy? Can we follow the Lord without living according to what God says is Holy? Does living a holy lifestyle by abstaining from worldliness mean that we are Holy? Or does it mean we are following holiness?

Santification is a process and holiness is the end product. The big picture is; God calls us to be Holy. God calls us to live righteous lives. Those under the law reject that the standard of righteousness for Christian is without the law. God is a covenant God. Know the covenant you're under.

 

[Stryder06]

And your answers is??? I'm following your lead and talking arround the issues.

Sabbath = rest. It's that simple.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sabbath = rest. It's that simple.

Yes it is
So what's the problem?

...

 

[Stryder06]

Yes it is
So what's the problem?

...

No problem on this side. Ask those on the other side who have their foot on the commandment.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No problem on this side. Ask those on the other side who have their foot on the commandment.

I am just a seeker seeking the truth.
Both sides seem to have legitement arguments so far.